Question about "karma"-

[ComradeMan]

Can a Buddhist or someone in the know help me out of some karma dilemmas I have.

1. If I see someone dying by the side of the road, do I leave them by the side of the road because that is their karma or do I intervene?

2. If I am reincarnated as a "lesser" life-form as some beliefs hold- how can I be good or bad in order to start going back up the karmic ladder? How can a fish be a good fish or a bad fish?

3. Isn't the whole idea of karma just basically unfair? If a person has no memory of their past life how can they be punished in this one? Even if they did have a memory shouldn't they be given a fresh start?

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Buddhists so please take the questions in the way they are meant.
:cool:

[Havet]

karma police, arrest this man, he talks in maths, he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio

karma police, arrest this girl, her hitler hairdo is, making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party.

BTW, what are your religious "tendencies"?

[red cat]

Isn't the whole idea of karma just basically unfair? If a person has no memory of their past life how can they be punished in this one? Even if they did have a memory shouldn't they be given a fresh start?


If you don't bring the idea of "karma" in, then how are you to brainwash the oppressed masses into believing that they themselves, and not the ruling class, are the cause of their sufferings ?

[ComradeMan]

If you don't bring the idea of "karma" in, then how are you to brainwash the oppressed masses into believing that they themselves, and not the ruling class, are the cause of their sufferings ?


I see what you mean, but just for argument's sake let's assume good faith.

[Belisarius]

I see what you mean, but just for argument's sake let's assume good faith.
one of my teachers is a buddhist and he explained that karma was actually nothing more than "whatever you do in your life has a consequence", which is actually quite obvious. the kind of mathematical balance you seem to talk about was a dogmatic belief/ritual among the masses, but not the essence of buddhist philosophy.

[ComradeMan]

one of my teachers is a buddhist and he explained that karma was actually nothing more than "whatever you do in your life has a consequence", which is actually quite obvious. the kind of mathematical balance you seem to talk about was a dogmatic belief/ritual among the masses, but not the essence of buddhist philosophy.

Okay, so that stuff about being reincarnated as a lower form of life etc was more folk belief?

Thanks.

[Belisarius]

Okay, so that stuff about being reincarnated as a lower form of life etc was more folk belief?

Thanks.
i think many asian buddhist philosophers don't see it as a folk believe, but i haven't seen them combine reincarnation with karma.

[ComradeMan]

i think many asian buddhist philosophers don't see it as a folk believe, but i haven't seen them combine reincarnation with karma.

Could you outline what the main line is on karma in Buddhism please? I bow to your knowledge on this matter! :thumbup1:

I can't find anything that seems to give a "uniform" idea.

[Die Rote Fahne]

one of my teachers is a buddhist and he explained that karma was actually nothing more than "whatever you do in your life has a consequence", which is actually quite obvious. the kind of mathematical balance you seem to talk about was a dogmatic belief/ritual among the masses, but not the essence of buddhist philosophy.


There are different takes on karma depending on what kind of Buddhist you ask.

For example: Some Buddhists believe that Karma is merely the fact that everything is connected and that a positive action for one person means that it will positively affect you too.

Something like that anyways.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Karma = "rape victims deserve it"

No thanks.

[ComradeMan]

Karma = "rape victims deserve it"

No thanks.


I don't think that's what they mean somehow...
:confused:

[SouthernBelle82]

I'm not a Buddhist but I believe in karma. Basically it's the philosophy that whatever you put out comes back to you. As far as "rape victims deserve it" no that's not really how it works. There have been good people who have been raped. Children and infants. Rape is just a negative act. We all have free will and that includes free will with how we respond to karma and lessons we have to learn here on Earth.

[Belisarius]

Could you outline what the main line is on karma in Buddhism please? I bow to your knowledge on this matter! :thumbup1:

I can't find anything that seems to give a "uniform" idea.
i just have knowledge of this, because my teacher has it, so don't bow to me:laugh:.

as far as i understand buddhism you can't find a uniform idea, because there are too many groups in buddhism (theravada, mahayana, tantra, tibetan, zen,...). i know the most about zen buddhism and basically there argument is always "figure it out yourself". zen tends to look like western existentialism (i wrote a paper on these and other comparisons with western thought, i can translate it if you like, but i warn you, you already need to know some stuff about continental philosophy and dutch poetry).

[ComradeMan]

i just have knowledge of this, because my teacher has it, so don't bow to me:laugh:.

as far as i understand buddhism you can't find a uniform idea, because there are too many groups in buddhism (theravada, mahayana, tantra, tibetan, zen,...). i know the most about zen buddhism and basically there argument is always "figure it out yourself". zen tends to look like western existentialism (i wrote a paper on these and other comparisons with western thought, i can translate it if you like, but i warn you, you already need to know some stuff about continental philosophy and dutch poetry).

Don't know about the Dutch poetry, but the continental philosophy is okay witb me.... would be interested. If it's in Dutch I'll be able to read it more or less and/or use a translator.

[Belisarius]

i have posted the dutch version on my blog. what you need to know is that i discuss a text by Lathouwers, but i pretty much summarize his ideas in the paragraph about heidegger, levinas and kloos (a dutch poet)

[Robocommie]

Karma is many different things to many different people, but it shouldn't be understood as a doctrine that teaches that people reap the consequences for what they did in a previous life in this one. It is not a shifting of blame for people's suffering on themselves. Karma is a concept which is relevant in the here, and now.

Karma is best thought of as ripples in a pond. Because everything in this life is connected, because nobody is truly isolated from one another, either psychologically or by physical causality, then nothing that we do can be truly said to affect only us. Negative acts beget negative acts. I'm I'm cruel to you, you'll be more likely to be in a sour mood which will make it that much more likely that you'll act cruelly or harshly with another person, and from there the cycle continues, on and on. It's like the Butterfly Effect.

Ultimately, because of karma, we all pay the consequences for what we do in the here and now, because we all eventually feel those ripples. Six billion human beings, living their lives, affecting one another with every decision they make, ends up creating one hell of a lot of unforeseen consequences. That's karma. Some people have interpreted it to be a "punishment" for sins committed in a previous life, but that's wrong, and rests on a judicial view of right and wrong that is more common among the Abrahamic faiths. We aren't "punished" for our prior actions, the idea is more that we cannot escape the consequences of our actions. If an archer looses an arrow, he can't change his mind and then "un-loose" the arrow. The action that he's set in motion is in motion and it won't stop until it comes to it's natural conclusion.

Buddhism teaches that our responsibility is to be mindful of our actions because of the incredible power they have to affect not just our own lives, but the lives of everyone around us, and what's more, the mentality of those around us. The revolutionary implications of this is that we must not think solely of ourselves, and we have to be mindful of the intent behind our actions, to act with compassion and respect for others, to try and make the world a better place by acting positively, with a positive intent.

[The New Consciousness]

These are all imaginings and assumptions that have over time solidified into doctrine, typical of any belief system. Ignore such terms as 'karma' as they lead down the path of perdition.

[ComradeMan]

These are all imaginings and assumptions that have over time solidified into doctrine, typical of any belief system. Ignore such terms as 'karma' as they lead down the path of perdition.


Go on.....?

The path of perdition.....doesn't that lead to Chicago?:D

[Invincible Summer]

I'm not a Buddhist but I believe in karma. Basically it's the philosophy that whatever you put out comes back to you. As far as "rape victims deserve it" no that's not really how it works. There have been good people who have been raped. Children and infants. Rape is just a negative act. We all have free will and that includes free will with how we respond to karma and lessons we have to learn here on Earth.

Sounds like a cop-out to me.

[The New Consciousness]

Go on.....?

The path of perdition.....doesn't that lead to Chicago?

Karma is a concept. Concepts cannot show you truth they can only point to it. Go on your direct experience. The failure of religion is that it gets lost in concepts which were useful from a certain perspective at a certain time. Base your religion on your own experience. Go into it. If you are serious and earnest enough you will find out what you need. But if you are superficial then terms like karma will be enough, but they will not teach you anything. To accept a concept is to totally end integrity and freedom. Find out for yourself. Start with the question 'who am I?' and ask yourself who is observing the world and if there even is an observer.

[Orange Juche]

karma police, arrest this man, he talks in maths, he buzzes like a fridge, he's like a detuned radio

karma police, arrest this girl, her hitler hairdo is, making me feel ill, and we have crashed her party.

This is what you get...
this is what you get...
this is what you get, when you mess with uuussssssss.......

[Orange Juche]

Can a Buddhist or someone in the know help me out of some karma dilemmas I have.

1. If I see someone dying by the side of the road, do I leave them by the side of the road because that is their karma or do I intervene?

2. If I am reincarnated as a "lesser" life-form as some beliefs hold- how can I be good or bad in order to start going back up the karmic ladder? How can a fish be a good fish or a bad fish?

3. Isn't the whole idea of karma just basically unfair? If a person has no memory of their past life how can they be punished in this one? Even if they did have a memory shouldn't they be given a fresh start?

I don't mean to be disrespectful to Buddhists so please take the questions in the way they are meant.
:cool:

1) You intervene - compassion is an important tenet of Buddhism... not attempting to play the role of fate. You are not divine or a God... Buddhism is about enlightenment, which is reached partially through compassion. Getting into the intricacies of what karma is and the karma of others should be irrelevant.

2) I am of the line of thinking that karma is not a metaphysical occurrence, but a natural product of social interaction. If you are a negative person who is negative to others, you generally receive the same type of thing back. Same with being a positive and caring person. I'd argue it's nothing metaphysical, theres no secret energies that control your destiny based on your actions... a lot of the spiritual/reincarnation/metaphysical stuff is strongly influenced from traditions already existing in the countries where Buddhism was beginning to flourish. I also find a problem with the up and down scale, as in the example you mention. Especially - given what we now scientifically know, there is far more than likely life many places elsewhere in the universe. Why would we only reincarnate on Earth, then?

3) In a metaphysical sense, yes, it is unfair. I don't quite consider myself a Buddhist, maybe Buddh-curious (I know a certain amount about Buddhism, though). I follow the line of thinking that reincarnation is not literal rebirth after death, but rather, how it deals with our impermanent nature. What I mean by this - the "I" does not exist... we are ever changing beings. Who I was a year ago is not who I am now, in the sense of my ego or "self." There is a school of thought that reincarnation is simply that our "self" dies and is reborn in each moment, we are constantly in flux. An analogy I use is a stream. If you look at a stream today, and go back tomorrow, it is the same stream. Yet all the water you see is not the water that was there the day before. We are the same way - there is a constituted self, yet it is ever changing, the stream of yesterday is gone and the stream of today is right in front of your eyes. If you're interested, I'd recommend Zen Buddhism.

[Orange Juche]

Karma = "rape victims deserve it"

No thanks.

From my interpretation of karma, that isn't what it means at all. Karma is simply - you act like a jerk and with anger and malice, and you tend to receive negativity back. Same with being kind and compassionate, you tend to receive positivity back. Nothing supernatural, just a product of social interaction.

Rape victims are just that - victims. They didn't "earn" their rape by being bad, they were a victim of circumstance and evil. It had nothing to do with them.

[Argument]

I'm not a Buddhist, but I possess some knowledge about it.


1. If I see someone dying by the side of the road, do I leave them by the side of the road because that is their karma or do I intervene?In Buddhism, metta is a very important state of mind. A good fairly translation is "compassion". Buddhists should not think that people "deserve" what they get, instead they should help them. That's how I see it, anyway.


2. If I am reincarnated as a "lesser" life-form as some beliefs hold- how can I be good or bad in order to start going back up the karmic ladder? How can a fish be a good fish or a bad fish?I'm not sure if reincarnation should be taken that literally. What is reborn, if you have no soul? I cannot answer your question, though. I find the Buddhist theory of reincarnation is hard to grasp.


3. Isn't the whole idea of karma just basically unfair? If a person has no memory of their past life how can they be punished in this one? Even if they did have a memory shouldn't they be given a fresh start?If I fall down when skiing, am I being punished for something? Or is it simply an effect from my action? I think karma should be seen as more "cause and effect" and less "a force that sticks to your soul and determinate what you'll get reincarnated as", that's more Hinduism.

What MeetingPeopleIsEasy wrote seems good.

[Havet]

This is what you get...
this is what you get...
this is what you get, when you mess with uuussssssss.......

For a minute there
I lost myself
I lost myseeeeeeeeeeeeeeelf

[trying2]

karma is an idea.. which was made up by someone long ago.. therefore karma's effects are fake... and if a sequence of events appear to be karma in your life.. they are coincidences.. karma does exist however, within the world of My Name is Earl... I am convinced of that :)..