American seeks political asylum in north-korea [Archive]

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Sasha

30th January 2010, 13:37

Report: Detained American seeks asylum in NKorea

The Associated Press
Saturday, January 30, 2010; 1:45 AM

SEOUL, South Korea (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/korea.html?nav=el) -- An American man detained by North Korea (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/korea.html?nav=el) after allegedly entering the communist country illegally has sought asylum and wants to join its military, a news report said Saturday.
South Korea's Dong-a Ilbo newspaper said the man crossed into North Korea from China (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/china.html?nav=el) on Monday.
It said an unidentified source in North Korea told the newspaper the 28-year-old man said he came to the country because he did not "want to become a cannon fodder in the capitalist military," and "wants to serve in the North Korean military" instead.
The National Intelligence Service, South Korea's top spy agency, said it could not immediately confirm the report. The U.S. Embassy in Seoul said it had no such information.
On Thursday, the North's official Korean Central News Agency reported an American was arrested Monday for trespassing and his case was under investigation.
It was the second case of a detained American in North Korea in the past month, further complicating a relationship that has been badly strained for years over North Korea's pursuit of nuclear weapons and periodic testing of missiles in defiance of repeated U.N. Security Council warnings.
In Washington, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley said the North Koreans, in a bare-bones message through their representative at U.N. headquarters in New York, provided no identifying information about the detainee.

Crowley said the U.S. has asked Swedish government intermediaries to gain access to the detainee. The Swedish Embassy in Pyongyang represents U.S. interests there as Washington has no diplomatic relations with the North.
In late December North Korea said it was holding a U.S. citizen for illegally crossing the North Korea-China border. It did not identify the man, but the State Department has said he is Robert Park, an American missionary.
South Korean activists say Park entered the North on Christmas Day to raise the issue of human rights and call on its leader, Kim Jong Il, to step down and free hundreds of thousands of people reportedly held in political camps.
Last year, North Korea freed two U.S. journalists - who had been sentenced to 12 years of hard labor for trespassing and "hostile acts" - to former President Bill Clinton during a visit to Pyongyang.
---
Associated Press writer Robert Burns in Washington contributed to this report.

source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/30/AR2010013000084.html

Dimentio

30th January 2010, 13:42

*Sighs*

That is just deluded. "I think the USA has a crappy government so that means that North Korea must be amazing".

But certainly, he will be treated like some sort of prince by North Korea, at least so long as he is shutting his mouth. Defectors are usually treated very good in propaganda purpose.

Robespierre2.0

30th January 2010, 17:14

Defectors are usually treated very good in propaganda purpose.

It works both ways, you know. North Korean defectors are given a cushy existence at the southern puppet regime's expense just for feeding the propaganda machine with rumors that it can report as fact.

The Red Next Door

30th January 2010, 17:29

Why would anybody want to defect to that Stalinist shithole? He should of move to Cuba.

Nosotros

30th January 2010, 19:24

Is that not also a stalinist shithole?

RedSonRising

30th January 2010, 22:54

Is that not also a stalinist shithole?

I've been there and no, it's not.

Red Monkey

30th January 2010, 23:14

Interesting. An individual apparently defects to a socialist country and my comrades are all enraged.

whore

30th January 2010, 23:28

Interesting. An individual apparently defects to a socialist country and my comrades are all enraged.
perhaps that says something.

like, maybe, your "comrades" are not socialist. or, more likely, your "comrades" think that north korea isn't socialist.

personally, i think the second is more likely. north korea, isn't socialist. but, that's just what i've heard from the capitalist media, and you can't trust that... (actually, i've heard that they are "communist", but i don't believe that about china or cuba either...)

Lacrimi de Chiciură

31st January 2010, 00:18

Was he a U.S. soldier stationed in Korea when he defected? It seems like an easier way to not become "cannon fodder" for the U.S. military would be to not join it...

Revy

31st January 2010, 00:24

Interesting. An individual apparently defects to a socialist country and my comrades are all enraged.

It's not a socialist country. Is anybody here "enraged" that someone moved to North Korea? I think people should have the right to move and live wherever they want. If they want to live in a dictatorship, so be it.

I don't doubt there are some people who like the idea of there being someone in total control, someone to worship and look up to as "The Leader". Not everyone loves the idea of democracy. Some would rather bring back absolute monarchy.

Dr Mindbender

31st January 2010, 00:53

a socialist country
:lol:
http://pic.pbsrc.com/spacer.gif

lulz.

I've been there and no, it's not.

I wouldnt imagine your travel operators would incorporate stalinism in the tour intinerary.

scarletghoul

31st January 2010, 02:01

Argh. The western left sucks so much. Every victory won, every advancement made, by any revolutionary socialist country, and these 'leftists' just sit around player hatin. Siding with the liberal capitalists. You fools all buy into the propaganda about North Korea being an evil totalitarian dictatorship full of stupid brainwashed asians.

This idiotic orientalist gullibility is illustrated well by the fact that many of you hate North Korea but love Cuba. Can you point out any qualititive reason why Cuba is better? Or is it just because you heard north korea is really bad and cuba seems alright because, you know, theyre civilised folk and not a big yellow brainwashed mass.

And as for those who hate Cuba too: well, at least there's some consistency to your disgusting liberalism..

This is another small victory for the DPRK. Let's hope they can use it well and that it is followed by further successes.

whore

31st January 2010, 02:09

the trouble is scarletghoul (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../member.php?u=18456), i've never seen anything good about north korea. where as cuba has one of the best health systems in the americas, what has nk got?

not only that, i prefer a "liberal capitalist" country, where i have a bit of freedom, to a place where i cannot speak my mind. of course, i wish to do away with all oppression, but in the mean time, less oppression is better.

can anyone say whatever they want in north korea? can anyone access the internet and read anything they want in north korea?

the level of communication possible in a country is a good indicator of whether or not it is "totalitarian". the more communication that is possible in a country, the less likely it is to be a shit hole.

I Can Has Communism

31st January 2010, 02:15

Revy

31st January 2010, 02:22

Stop putting up strawmen acting like people here hate North Koreans, or North Korea as a country. It's stupid. It's clear the issue that people here have is the government. You're just using the same canard as those that moan about "anti-Americanism" or "anti-Zionist anti-Semitism".

Who said that North Koreans were brainwashed? Most aren't. Few people would want to risk their lives in that situation, so they're not brainwashed, just kept from speaking their minds about the government. It's the same regardless of geography with all kinds of regimes.

I Can Has Communism

31st January 2010, 02:54

It's clear the issue that people here have is the government. You're just using the same canard as those that moan about "anti-Americanism" or "anti-Zionist anti-Semitism". Government is not an independent force separate from classes. Why do you keep following the liberal western narrative of events by calling the DPRK a "dictatorship"?

The Red Next Door

31st January 2010, 03:19

The Red Next Door

31st January 2010, 03:22

Government is not an independent force separate from classes. Why do you keep following the liberal western narrative of events by calling the DPRK a "dictatorship"?
We are not, We are just going by what people who live in that country secretly video tape.

I Can Has Communism

31st January 2010, 03:31

NK have nothing but shit, Cuba have free health care and no starving people what so ever.What do you know, North Korea too has free healthcare and few starving people.:rolleyes:

gorillafuck

31st January 2010, 03:38

This idiotic orientalist gullibility is illustrated well by the fact that many of you hate North Korea but love Cuba. Can you point out any qualititive reason why Cuba is better?Cuba has a much, much better standard of living than NK, quite a lot less people in labour camps, don't have TV shows telling people what haircut to have, doesn't have speakers in peoples homes that can't be turned off, didn't declared Fidel as eternal president after he stopped being president, doesn't have a military-first policy, and haven't adopted Juche as the official ideology. North Korea really resembles a military dictatorship, Cuba does not. Though anyone who says Cuba doesn't have any problems is delusional.

This is another small victory for the DPRK. Let's hope they can use it well and that it is followed by further successes.
Gaining one citizen isn't a "victory" at all. I don't see how it could be considered anything other than what it is, which is gaining one citizen.

fatboy

31st January 2010, 04:25

My fellow maoists are going to slam for this but DPRK is a monarchy. The power is passed down father to son. That does not sound very communistic to me. The original Korean revolution had communist intentions but they shied away from Marxism-Leninism in favor of the Juche idea after the Sino-Soviet Split. Dropped any association with it after CCCP crashed. Dont get me started on the revisionism of DPRK.:cursing:

The Ben G

31st January 2010, 04:46

MarxSchmarx

31st January 2010, 05:29

As somebody once posted in a thread like this, man bites dog.

Tablo

31st January 2010, 09:47

Seeing as I would get treated like royalty for defecting to the DPRK it seems like a lovely idea.

On a serious note I would like to say that the DPRK is an autocracy and while they do certainly hold some elections, there is very little choice and with state controlled media and speakers in everyone's homes it is hard to have get some variance in perspective in such elections.

Cuba, while being state-capitalist, has some amazing health care, has 0% child malnutrition and amazing literacy rates all while being a third world nation. Cuba > DPRK any day. Not that state-capitalism is good. It is simply better than the typical bullshit we deal with.

Dimentio

31st January 2010, 10:37

It works both ways, you know. North Korean defectors are given a cushy existence at the southern puppet regime's expense just for feeding the propaganda machine with rumors that it can report as fact.

Oh yes! Another example was how Soviet expats were given money and apartments in New York, at least if they didn't have too reactionary or outright bizarre ideas (*cough* Limonov *cough*).

Sendo

31st January 2010, 12:08

I'm very happy to knock NK for being Juche and all its failures, but this isn't the thread for a tired Cuba vs NK debate.

What he did WAS better than being cannon fodder for American imperialism.

Yeah Cuba has more freedom of movement, free health care, the 1-mile diet, much more vibrant culture and hell, better weather...yeah, I/you/everyone gets it. What does that have to do with defecting away from the US. I don't care so much where he's defecting TO, but defecting FROM. In this case, there is no "better" (or worse, if you think about it) candidate to defect from.

Crux

31st January 2010, 17:03

Its idiotic to assume that the western "democracies" are NOT dictatorships of the bourgeoisie.

The DPRK is a dictatorship of the proletariat, but its under a revisionist leadership. LOL at the anti-communist "Marxists" who abhor dictatorship.:lol:
It's idiotic to assume that DPRK is a dictatorship of the proletariat.
A state may be a class-dictatorship of the bourguise, indeed most are, and still be a democracy. Of course, I hardly need to tell the comrades here the limits and contradictions of bourguise democracy, but fighting for basic democratic rights has always been the cause of socialists, and in the cause of states where a bearucracy has assumed power the fight for a political revolution and a worker's democracy is absolutly necessary.

As far the defector doing something progressive by defection to the DPRK? I doubt it. There are much better ways to protest against US imperialism.

What Would Durruti Do?

31st January 2010, 17:14

Even North Korea doesn't consider themselves socialist anymore. Are people seriously actually defending them? Amazing.

They're fucking religious lunatics from the cult of Juche.

As for the defector, I can understand why he would do that. He'll be a hero in North Korea and be treated very well while protesting US Imperialism. Not a bad gig.

RedSonRising

31st January 2010, 19:58

:lol:
http://pic.pbsrc.com/spacer.gif

lulz.

I wouldnt imagine your travel operators would incorporate stalinism in the tour intinerary.

Contrary to what people may think, there was nobody other than myself and my two co-travelers deciding where we go, who we talked to, and what we talked about. It's not a socialist paradise but comparing North Korea to Cuba is naive as hell.

bailey_187

31st January 2010, 20:42

Even North Korea doesn't consider themselves socialist anymore. .

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a socialist independent state that represents all the interests of the Korean people. The exploiter capitalist class disappeared totally, and the different sectors of the traders, peasants and industrial workers that once worked based in the private property, today they became socialist workers.
http://www.korea-dpr.com/politics.htm

Im not saying this proves it is Socialist, but the DPRK considers themseleves Socialist.

scarletghoul

31st January 2010, 22:05

Contrary to what people may think, there was nobody other than myself and my two co-travelers deciding where we go, who we talked to, and what we talked about. It's not a socialist paradise but comparing North Korea to Cuba is naive as hell.
Have you been to North Korea too ?
If yes: how does it compare to Cuba ?
If no: why are you talking about it in the same uninformed manner with which people talk about Cuba ? You haven't been to the DPRK. Your views are just as valid and likely incorrect as those who say the Cuba is a 'stalinist' shithole.

Cuba has some amazing health care, has 0% child malnutrition and amazing literacy rates all while being a third world nation. Cuba > DPRK any day.
North Korea has free health care. North Koreans are not starving*. North Korea has a 100% literacy rate.

Why do you praise Cuba for these things, but not North Korea ? It is strange.

*this is despite having barely any land suitable for growing food and being under severe sanctions with not much outside help at all. They're in a worse situation that Cuba in this respect. Yes, there was a famine years ago, for these reasons and the collapse of the eastern bloc, but there is not now. People are healthy and quality of life is improving.

the trouble is scarletghoul, i've never seen anything good about north korea. where as cuba has one of the best health systems in the americas, what has nk got?
Again, North Korea seems to have a pretty good health system too.

not only that, i prefer a "liberal capitalist" country, where i have a bit of freedom, to a place where i cannot speak my mind. of course, i wish to do away with all oppression, but in the mean time, less oppression is better.
O...K... You just pretty much admitted to being a liberal, and a supporter of capitalism. EVERY revolutionary situation involves a decrease in some peoples personal freedom, as the intensity of class struggle rises. This is why liberalism is counterrevolutionary. If you wanna keep your personal freedoms in the short term then by all means stay in capitalist Amerika, enjoy living the status quo and speak out against revolutionary movements. But don't go calling yourself a revolutionary socialist, you liberal fool.

can anyone say whatever they want in north korea? can anyone access the internet and read anything they want in north korea?

the level of communication possible in a country is a good indicator of whether or not it is "totalitarian". the more communication that is possible in a country, the less likely it is to be a shit hole.
Most Cubans do not have access to the internet either. Do you view Cuba as a totalitarian shit hole ? Surely you must, comrade.

And I honestly have no idea what levels of free speech there are in Cuba or the DPRK. I do know however that in these socialist countries, when the people do speak they are actually heard, through mechanisms of popular political participation, unlike in your beloved liberal Amerika.

North Korea really resembles a military dictatorship
As 'I Can Has Communism' has pointed out, Marxists shouldn't be dismissing countries as being 'dictatorships'. Its a silly and antimarxist view. Dictatorship is almost always of a certain class. What is the class dictatorship of the DPRK ? It is a military dictatorship ? OK, then what is the class character of the DPRK's military forces ?

As anyone who's looked into it will know, most of the population has access to arms and has gone through military training. In addition to the huge standing army, there are also millions of worker and peasant guard militia. In other words, the North Korean military is of the people, of the working class. This is the reality of the 'military first' policy: a militarization of the Korean working class.

So if you view it as a military dictatorship, then you must view it as a dictatorship of the proletariat, right ?

Gaining one citizen isn't a "victory" at all. I don't see how it could be considered anything other than what it is, which is gaining one citizen.
Dude do you know nuthin about the propaganda war?

Durruti's Ghost

31st January 2010, 22:24

So if you view it as a military dictatorship, then you must view it as a dictatorship of the proletariat, right ?

Bad argument. Most militaries are primarily composed of members of the (EDIT: working :blushing:) class. The Chilean military under Pinochet was primarily proletarian; you wouldn't argue that Pinochet's dictatorship was socialist, would you? What about Trujillo's military dictatorship? Or, hell, what about Hitler's?

What matters is not the class composition of the military, but rather the class in whose interests the military acts.

RedSonRising

1st February 2010, 02:29

Have you been to North Korea too ?
If yes: how does it compare to Cuba ?
If no: why are you talking about it in the same uninformed manner with which people talk about Cuba ? You haven't been to the DPRK. Your views are just as valid and likely incorrect as those who say the Cuba is a 'stalinist' shithole.

I am attempting to distinguish them, not talk about them in the same "uniform manner", and am doing so due to the fact that the coupling of the two was already mentioned by other posters. Regardless of how Cuba compares itself to North Korea, "Stalinist Shithole" is not a term which I would apply to Cuba based on firsthand experience, so regardless of how one would classify North Korea, it is not one. So I think when expressing views on a country's classification, being there validates such views profoundly and does not necessitate travel to another country to differentiate such labels. So no, they are not incorrect.

gorillafuck

1st February 2010, 02:48

Dude do you know nuthin about the propaganda war?
North Koreans who don't like the government won't be swayed by one American defecting to North Korea, and Americans who don't like the North Korean government won't be convinced that North Korea is good because one American defected to North Korea.

The Ben G

2nd February 2010, 02:16

North Korea has free health care. North Koreans are not starving*. North Korea has a 100% literacy rate.

Dude do you know nuthin about the propaganda war?

It looks like you dont.

Tatarin

2nd February 2010, 04:36

You never know, isn't this the second American defection in a year, after the one in august last year? I wonder what it is with these North Koreans. It must be the people and the food.

Or do they dislike Obama so much that they want to become even more socialist than him? Only Kim Il Sung knows, I guess...