If Che was still alive - How would Cuba be if Che was alive?

[sararevolucionaria]

I think that if Che was still alive then Cuba wouldn't be such a dictatorship. I mean, he only wanted all the good things for Cuba, and look at Cuba now without Che. It's so poor and the people just wanna get out of there, but with Che's ideas then it wouldn't be the same, it probably would be great.
Anyones agrees?

[lostsoul]

Quote: from sararevolucionaria on 3:28 am on July 11, 2003
I think that if Che was still alive then Cuba wouldn't be such a dictatorship. I mean, he only wanted all the good things for Cuba, and look at Cuba now without Che. It's so poor and the people just wanna get out of there, but with Che's ideas then it wouldn't be the same, it probably would be great.
Anyones agrees?

It seems to me Cuba's economic situation is not really totally in their control. America and many countries put alot of pressure on cuba, in an attempt to break it.

I don't think Fidel or anyone is trying to keep cuba poor, everyone seems to be doing their best to make the country stronger, but theirs only so much you can do with your resources, population, etc.

I think Che might have motivated the people, but their wouldn't be that big of a difference in cuba if he was still alive, in my opinion.

I think the main way che was to help cuba, was to trigger other revolutions all over the world. By doing that he would have liberated other countries but also created allies around the world that would help cuba more.

i could be wrong, but thats just my take on it.

Take care

[tebvie]

I am kind of glad to see this topic brought up. I have read lot&#39;s of things on Che and I can&#39;t help but think that he&#39;s still alive and if not, then he wasn&#39;t killed how they say he was. I don&#39;t think the general people will ever really know what happened to him. As how to things would be now with him in power along with Fidel, I think things would be a whole lot different not only for Cuba but for all countries. I don&#39;t think Cuba would be communist but socialist in the total sense of the word. Everyone would be equal but with some freedoms to live and be happy as they please. I don&#39;t know if the Cuban people are currentley unhappy because I have never been to Cuba but by the looks of it they wouldn&#39;t be fleeing if they liked it. I think the problem with Fidels Cuba today is that he wanted good things for Cuba at first, to help the people improve their lives but when he realized how much control he had he took communism to a new level. Myabe this sounds like a dumb reason on why fidel is how he is but he is only human. <_<

[Elenwen]

Oh, well, I think I agree with lostsoul... I don&#39;t know so much about Cuba, but remember that Fidel and Che was great friends and shared the same thoughts of how a community shall be... and I don&#39;t think Fidel has changed his mind much during the years, I think he runs the country the way Che would.. but that doesn&#39;t mean that if Che had been alive, Cuba would have been the same.. I think if che lived, fidel would share much power with him, and that would make Cuba not exactly a dictatorship, but runned by two men, who discussed matters before decisions were made.. Che was a man of action (that&#39;s why he went to Bolivia) and would have reacted by doing something practical for his people if he had seen that the cuban people today are quite poor... and the would be great motivation for people to work for justice.. But cuba today isn&#39;t that bad, anyway... after all, they have the best health and education system in south america, and the agriculture is almost 100% organic&#33;&#33; Could the reasons for people wanting to flee from Cuba be huma&#39;s selfishness?? The desire of creating the best life possible for himself? In antother way, would che have recived the status he now has if he had lived longer, and not died fighting for his beliefs and justice to others??

By the way: what is the exact meaning of Hasta la victoria siempre????

[Danton]

Really it&#39;s just pointless speculation, Che is dead and had he lived he would never have retained much power in the decision making process in Havana.
Undoubtedly he made a great and heroic contribution to the cause but also created problems with his reform policies and outspoken attacks on not only Cuba&#39;s enemies but also their allies.

The sad truth is he became a liability hence his foreign excursions and final adventure in Bolivia, Tebvie: I&#39;m sorry but the facts are in and Che is most definatley dead, any conspiracy theories you may have heard are sadly false and quite frankly a stain on his memory...

Saying that Cubans would have more freedom if Che still lived is not only naive conjecture but in all probability highly false, Che&#39;s ideology was much more hardline left than Fidel&#39;s.

The poor souls who try and leave are lured by false dreams of a better life, they see the tourists with their gold jewellery and digital camera&#39;s among other junk and begin to crave these worthless possessions. Most who make it across find new and humiliating problems waiting for them, maybe they will get a minimun wage job or be lured into crime and often they will only realize what they have given up when it&#39;s too late.... when they reallize that material possessions, superficial affluence and the mirage of freedom is a poor substitute for the equality and harsh but honest life they left behind...

[soul83]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 10:03 AM
By the way: what is the exact meaning of Hasta la victoria siempre????
It means Always for the Victory

[Comrade Brown]

I always wondered what that meant&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[stonerboi]

There is one problem with the &#39;what if Che was alive&#39; hypothesis.

Communism/socialism will only be succesful if many countries succumb to revolution in roughly the same time and that the poeople orgnise to take out those systems/intitutions that sustain imperialism and allow capitalism to launch counter-attacks agianst workers states.

So if Che was alive it wouldn&#39;t make much of a difference, NOT because Che was bad or didn&#39;t have any ability, but because of the situation around him was beyond his control as it was up to workers and revolutionaries in other countries to make socialism/communism succed.

Castro&#39;s only way out for Cuba to remain free from captialism is to hope and work for revolutions in other countries. Other revolutionary states will then work with Cuba to help defend socialism from the imperialist assault.

Bascially the problems of present day Cuba, like the problems of yesterdays USSR is that the theory of &#39;Socialism in one country&#39; has proven itslef to be a monumental failure and that &#39;socialism in one country&#39; no matter how well intentioned can only serve the interests of global capitalism and US imperialism.

International proletarian socialist revolution is the ONLY way forward&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Fidelbrand]

The situation might be even worse.

Che is famous for his stubborn but adorable spirit for the betterment of the unpriviledged people. In one of the books i read , Che has declared himself communist (dont spank me if i m wrong)... but fidel is much of a politician , knowing when , how and what to do at different times.

As lostsoul said, i agreed that Che would be revolutionaring in all possible places on this globe to free the unfreeed. Maybe less attention would be paid on internal economic problems.. and his guts and stubborness might lead to further problems.. Fidel has the intention to do good for his people... methods used might not be so suitable (for some), but at least not as extreme as Che , as Che is more hardlinedly leftist than Fidel.

cheers..

:cuba: :castro:

[Che should be our american idol]

in my opinion i think if che was still alive it might have just been a little better in cuba...but at the same time all those blockades that USA has put on cuba might just have kept cuba the same...see if cuba would have been able to get imports and sell their good to other countries they wouldnt be as bad a they are now...but the thing is after all those years fidel has been able to keep cuba standing may not be one of the strongest countries but it still stands
:castro: :cuba: :castro: :cuba: :castro: :cuba: :castro:

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Che should be our american [email protected] 12 2003, 05:33 PM
in my opinion i think if che was still alive it might have just been a little better in cuba...but at the same time all those blockades that USA has put on cuba might just have kept cuba the same...see if cuba would have been able to get imports and sell their good to other countries they wouldnt be as bad a they are now...but the thing is after all those years fidel has been able to keep cuba standing may not be one of the strongest countries but it still stands
:castro: :cuba: :castro: :cuba: :castro: :cuba: :castro:
hello... Welcome to Che-lives, i like ur name~ creative... it should be used as a slogan~ :hammer: :lol:

But i don&#39;t understand 1 point.. in ur opinion, why would u think Che wld better Cuba if he was alive ?

cuba will stand forever&#33; and i do hope that Fidel has planned it well to avoid "counter-revolutions" , if one day he is freed from this sicked world~~

cheers.. :rolleyes:

[Che should be our american idol]

see che and fidel shared a strong bond and together they managed to keep cuba alive... i have read many things about che and he did many things to help cuba...he had many new ideas to make cuba a stronger community but now that hes gone he never managed to make to ideas come true

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

Welcome to the site Che should be our american idol

True Che had idea&#39;s for the future of Cuba but Che did leave Cuba to go Bolivia. I agree Cuba might be a bit better to with Che but Castro is a smart man who can run a government but who said that two heads arn&#39;t better than one. :che: :castro:

[trudeaumania]

If you read some of Che&#39;s speeches. Especially those concerning economic conditions concerning Cuba. His vision was on a grand scale. His vision was for Cuba, not to be soley dependent on one commodity, sugar production. His vision was of massive industrialization. Cuban products exported around the globe. He spoke of this many times. If Che had lived onward, what may have changed? I think he would have used every opportunity to speak out against the embargo, and would have worked for fair trade agreements for Cuba. Also, only a guess but with his motivational leadership. I feel personaly he would have spoke out against the evils of capitalism : prostitution, greed, etc. His vision was to make a new man (so to speak) out of the Cuban people. One that held the idealism of equality, over gain. :)

[tebvie]

All of the opinions I have read from people about che have described him as very stubborn and jumping to action not quite thinking things through. While this isn&#39;t exactly the way to run a country I think the reason he recated the wya he did was because hefelt the cause, it came from his heart, it angered him to see the situation in not Only cuba but other Latin American countries. America is a major oppressor, it&#39;s terrible they do things that seem like they are in control but I think deep down inside they have got no fucking idea what it&#39;s like to extend a hand and help someone out. Most Americans won&#39;t do shit for the good of a whole but see it as what can the whole do for them. Yes it&#39;s bad that Che acted out sometimes with out maybe thinking but at least he did something to fight for what he beleived in. I would rather have that than someone who would sit on his ass talking about how bad the situation is and never doing anything.

[sararevolucionaria]

WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT FIDEL AND CHE MADE THE BATISTA&#39;S GOVERNMENT FALL BECAUSE HE WAS A DICTATOR.... FIDEL IS A DICTATOR NOW.... GET IT??

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT FIDEL AND CHE MADE THE BATISTA&#39;S GOVERNMENT FALL BECAUSE HE WAS A DICTATOR.... FIDEL IS A DICTATOR NOW.... GET IT??
http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by Death+Sep 5 2003, 06:19 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Death @ Sep 5 2003, 06:19 PM)
[email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT FIDEL AND CHE MADE THE BATISTA&#39;S GOVERNMENT FALL BECAUSE HE WAS A DICTATOR.... FIDEL IS A DICTATOR NOW.... GET IT??
http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html [/b]
thank you, comrade Death. It&#39;s informative. :)

All newbies who wants to know more about the present Cuba should read this ~

[FistFullOfSteel]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2003, 04:58 AM

Quote: from sararevolucionaria on 3:28 am on July 11, 2003
I think that if Che was still alive then Cuba wouldn&#39;t be such a dictatorship. I mean, he only wanted all the good things for Cuba, and look at Cuba now without Che. It&#39;s so poor and the people just wanna get out of there, but with Che&#39;s ideas then it wouldn&#39;t be the same, it probably would be great.
Anyones agrees?

It seems to me Cuba&#39;s economic situation is not really totally in their control. America and many countries put alot of pressure on cuba, in an attempt to break it.

I don&#39;t think Fidel or anyone is trying to keep cuba poor, everyone seems to be doing their best to make the country stronger, but theirs only so much you can do with your resources, population, etc.

I think Che might have motivated the people, but their wouldn&#39;t be that big of a difference in cuba if he was still alive, in my opinion.

I think the main way che was to help cuba, was to trigger other revolutions all over the world. By doing that he would have liberated other countries but also created allies around the world that would help cuba more.

i could be wrong, but thats just my take on it.

Take care
yeah u right..U.S put a lot of pressure on cuba,U.S want something from cuba??has cuba much oil?

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by hugo+Sep 6 2003, 06:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hugo @ Sep 6 2003, 06:09 AM)
[email protected] 11 2003, 04:58 AM

Quote: from sararevolucionaria on 3:28 am on July 11, 2003
I think that if Che was still alive then Cuba wouldn&#39;t be such a dictatorship. I mean, he only wanted all the good things for Cuba, and look at Cuba now without Che. It&#39;s so poor and the people just wanna get out of there, but with Che&#39;s ideas then it wouldn&#39;t be the same, it probably would be great.
Anyones agrees?

It seems to me Cuba&#39;s economic situation is not really totally in their control. America and many countries put alot of pressure on cuba, in an attempt to break it.

I don&#39;t think Fidel or anyone is trying to keep cuba poor, everyone seems to be doing their best to make the country stronger, but theirs only so much you can do with your resources, population, etc.

I think Che might have motivated the people, but their wouldn&#39;t be that big of a difference in cuba if he was still alive, in my opinion.

I think the main way che was to help cuba, was to trigger other revolutions all over the world. By doing that he would have liberated other countries but also created allies around the world that would help cuba more.

i could be wrong, but thats just my take on it.

Take care
yeah u right..U.S put a lot of pressure on cuba,U.S want something from cuba??has cuba much oil? [/b]
Che &#39;s personal goal is to have socialism practiced all over the globe~ His passion & love for Cuba is absolute, but his attitude of loving to journey around the world to spread socialism is also a fact. From his history of traveling to Congo.. Bolivia..etc can show that his main concern is not really for Cuba alone. Therefore, i think if he is still here, his affect on Cuba wldn&#39;t be as great as we imagine...... <_<

To Hugo,

I reckon U.S. wishes to get rid of any communist / socialist countries. U.S. wants to eliminate all chances of counter-attacks on their genuine capitalism & imperialism.

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by Fidelbrand+Sep 5 2003, 07:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Fidelbrand @ Sep 5 2003, 07:07 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2003, 06:19 PM

[email protected] 5 2003, 12:35 AM
WHAT I MEANT WAS THAT FIDEL AND CHE MADE THE BATISTA&#39;S GOVERNMENT FALL BECAUSE HE WAS A DICTATOR.... FIDEL IS A DICTATOR NOW.... GET IT??
http://www.newhumanist.com/geiser.html
thank you, comrade Death. It&#39;s informative. :)

All newbies who wants to know more about the present Cuba should read this ~ [/b]
My history teacher had the same opinion as sararevolucionaria, That artical soon set her straight. :)

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2003, 06:09 AM
yeah u right..U.S put a lot of pressure on cuba,U.S want something from cuba??has cuba much oil?
Sugar, i would suppose. But as we all know, America is hostile towards every nation that cares for all it&#39;s people.

Cuba gets some oil from Venzuela.