thoughts on communism

[j4x]

hey everyone, newfag here, and im posting for the first time. found this site and i like the idea of it, i might just stay.

so, i like the idea of communism to a degree, but i also like capitalism. In my beliefs, socialism is a horrible form of communism though (no offence to anyone). I just dont like the idea that just because someone is successful that they should have to pay for the unsuccessful. also, i hate the people who abuse the welfare system, they are taking the money away from people who need it (disabled, single mothers, etc.), and jacking our taxes up. I also think obama has done a great job as president so far, besides the heathcare plan, and attacking the banks. I think capitalism is a good way to go because a man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness (meaning some will make it and some wont). and lets just face it, some jobs are just harder, so those jobs deserve more pay. but again, there are fags who exploit the system and make more than their worth, as in Bernie Maydoff, Bush, whoever.
IMO, i think communism works better as a political system rather than an economic system. I hate the idea that a small percentage of the population runs the U.S. government. They have their controversies, shady deals, corruption, it makes me sick. If we had a truly equal government, as in no man is more politically politically important than another, then the people will be happier.

so, give me some feedback on my views, post urs too if you would like.
inb4calling me a troll, im not here to fuck with this forum.

[#FF0000]

I trashed basically everything after this first post here. So lets try again without people being dicks this time.

[mastershake16]

Welcome :D
I hope you learn more about Communism, and people here will help you.

[Lyev]

hey everyone, newfag here, and im posting for the first time. found this site and i like the idea of it, i might just stay.

so, i like the idea of communism to a degree, but i also like capitalism. In my beliefs, socialism is a horrible form of communism though (no offence to anyone). I just dont like the idea that just because someone is successful that they should have to pay for the unsuccessful. also, i hate the people who abuse the welfare system, they are taking the money away from people who need it (disabled, single mothers, etc.), and jacking our taxes up. I also think obama has done a great job as president so far, besides the heathcare plan, and attacking the banks. I think capitalism is a good way to go because a man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness (meaning some will make it and some wont). and lets just face it, some jobs are just harder, so those jobs deserve more pay. but again, there are fags who exploit the system and make more than their worth, as in Bernie Maydoff, Bush, whoever.
IMO, i think communism works better as a political system rather than an economic system. I hate the idea that a small percentage of the population runs the U.S. government. They have their controversies, shady deals, corruption, it makes me sick. If we had a truly equal government, as in no man is more politically politically important than another, then the people will be happier.

so, give me some feedback on my views, post urs too if you would like.
inb4calling me a troll, im not here to fuck with this forum.

You say that you like capitalism, but then seemingly go on to contradict yourself when you say "as in when a man is more politically important than another". Capitalism is the system that means right now, globally, 5% of the population own 95% of the wealth. Capitalism = the unequal distribution of wealth. This entails that some people will be more important than others and some people will have more power. And what precisely do you mean when you say "man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness"? You can try and work as hard as like under the heavy yoke of capitalism, but, and it's a big but, as long you work under the watchful eye of a greedy boss, 9 till 5 on the same menial tasks, day in day out, trying to meet quotas and targets, in a cramped, stuffy compartment in a faceless office, then you will remain relatively poor; in what way are you entitled to your fortune? When push comes to shove, the wealthy, privileged few will defend and cling onto the lions share. It's a marked fact that, almost all the time, under capitalism the poor stay poor or get poorer, whilst the rich get richer. I know it sounds like a tired cliche, but it's the truth.

Out of interest, what's your definition of communism and socialism? Most communists, socialists, Marxists and anarchists on here maintain that socialism has never been achieved. Socialism is a stateless, classless, moneyless society. Sounds somewhat far off at the moment doesn't it? Sure, there has been plenty of revolutions, movements and uprisings with the possible aim of this goal, but it's never happened. What you had in the Russia and China was Stalinism and Maoism. You do find quite a lot of proponents of these respective ideologies, but, for me, a lot the USSR and Mao's China are not a model to follow in many respects. Some leftists, like Zizek or Chomsky, are calling for a kind of socialism totally seperate to the authoritarianism of cold war-era "communism".

[Zanthorus]

Well, I was kinda holding back from posting in this thread because of all the flaming etc but now all that's gone:


so, i like the idea of communism to a degree, but i also like capitalism. In my beliefs, socialism is a horrible form of communism though (no offence to anyone).

Communism is a form of socialism not the other way round. Some Marxists will give you pseudo-scientific definitions of socialism and communism but in my view socialism is any system in which the workers have democratic control over production. Communism is a stateless and classless system where money is eliminated and the economy works on the basis of mutual aid.


I just dont like the idea that just because someone is successful that they should have to pay for the unsuccessful.

You have to consider why successful people are successful though. Many wealthy people today got their fortunes from ancestors in the past who abused the system and exacted various privileges and used the government to opress the lower class. Rates of social mobility in countries like America and the UK are criminally low and our economies are increasingly becoming de-industrialised to make way for the "FIRE" (Finance, Insurance and Real-Estate) economy which is basically just moving bits of paper around and hoping you get lucky while leeching off of the productive sectors of the economy. Capitalists don't create any new wealth and most of the work they do would be irrelevant outside of a commercialised commodity economy yet they get richer and richer while the real wages of workers keeps falling despite rising productivity.


I also think obama has done a great job as president so far, besides the heathcare plan, and attacking the banks.

I think Obama is basically a nicer face to the continuing reign of neo-liberal imperialism.


I think capitalism is a good way to go because a man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness (meaning some will make it and some wont). and lets just face it, some jobs are just harder, so those jobs deserve more pay.

I think doing mind-numbingly repetitive manual work all day for chicken feed wages is harder than being a fancy CEO in an office making millions a year.

[btpound]

Uh oh, someone's gunna get restricted. Let's try to look at this piece by piece...


so, i like the idea of communism to a degree, but i also like capitalism. In my beliefs, socialism is a horrible form of communism though (no offence to anyone). I just dont like the idea that just because someone is successful that they should have to pay for the unsuccessful.

People have this idea in their head that socialism is an equal distribution of poverty. Not so. Why can't everyone be rich? Why can't everyone enjoy the fruits of their labor? Why can't everyone have nice homes, good schools, and good hospitals? Why do we need to live in a country where 1/3rd of black men will spend time in prison, and a 1/4th of women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime? The inequality between individuals, the sexes, and races are all traceable back to capitalism. Why not create a society where everyone is set up for success? BTW, socialism is not a "form of communism". Communism refers to our ultimate goal of a classless society. This cannot be brought into being over night, nor can it be imposed from above. We must gradually work our way there, the first step of this being socialism. Socialism and communism are distinct.


also, i hate the people who abuse the welfare system, they are taking the money away from people who need it (disabled, single mothers, etc.), and jacking our taxes up. I also think obama has done a great job as president so far, besides the heathcare plan, and attacking the banks.

Oh yea, you're totally getting restricted.

The problem here is one that is all to common among the american working class. Blamming eachother for the problems of society. It's always the immagrants taking our jobs, the blacks on the bottom sponging off the system, those commies trying to jack up taxes on working folks. What you have failed to recognize is the true roots of these problems, which is , you guessed it, capitalism. You need to widen your scope and view of the problem to realize how to solve it. Why aren't there jobs for everyone? Is it because there is nothing to do? Ridiculous. Why are the people on the bottom so poor? Is it because they are lazy? Also ridiculous. But these are the conclusions that the lies of capitalism have given us. There is not enough work because the capitalists control all the jobs, and the more people that work for them the more people they have to pay. The people on the bottom are so poor because if they have a job they are paid the least amount the capitalist can afford while keeping the worker alive. These are the facts of capitalist society. So I ask you, how is really to blame?


I think capitalism is a good way to go because a man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness (meaning some will make it and some wont). and lets just face it, some jobs are just harder, so those jobs deserve more pay.

I agree. Everyone should have money. Everyone should receive a benefit from their work. Everyone whould have freedom to pursue their own happiness. You're right, some jobs deserve more pay than others. I agree a thousand times over. What you need to realize is that if this is really what you want, then don't support the capitalist. Because every canse they get they try to rob their workers and eachother out of as much money as possible. Capitalism generates greed and avarice. It is a system that works best when there is not enough of a certain thing (like food or housing) so the price will go up and a few people make more money, and the biggest problem it has (i.e. recessions, depressions) is over-production (too much food, housing, etc.!)


IMO, i think communism works better as a political system rather than an economic system. I hate the idea that a small percentage of the population runs the U.S. government. They have their controversies, shady deals, corruption, it makes me sick. If we had a truly equal government, as in no man is more politically politically important than another, then the people will be happier.

You cannot separate a political system from it's economics. Period. The political system of any society is a reflection of the economics system that supports it. How can you have equality in government when not everyone is equal? Inequality in economics is inequality in politics. Don't you see that the people who are in the political system are the richest men and women in the country? They act in their interests, which is directly antagonistic with those of the majority of people, the working class. If you want to see this end, if this corruption really sickens you, you need to stop supporting capitalist politicians and find out what you can do to support the overturning of the capitalist system and the creation of socialism.

[RadioRaheem84]

hey everyone, newfag here, and im posting for the first time. found this site and i like the idea of it, i might just stay.

so, i like the idea of communism to a degree, but i also like capitalism. In my beliefs, socialism is a horrible form of communism though (no offence to anyone). I just dont like the idea that just because someone is successful that they should have to pay for the unsuccessful. also, i hate the people who abuse the welfare system, they are taking the money away from people who need it (disabled, single mothers, etc.), and jacking our taxes up. I also think obama has done a great job as president so far, besides the heathcare plan, and attacking the banks. I think capitalism is a good way to go because a man is entitled to his fortune and the pursuit of happiness (meaning some will make it and some wont). and lets just face it, some jobs are just harder, so those jobs deserve more pay. but again, there are fags who exploit the system and make more than their worth, as in Bernie Maydoff, Bush, whoever.
IMO, i think communism works better as a political system rather than an economic system. I hate the idea that a small percentage of the population runs the U.S. government. They have their controversies, shady deals, corruption, it makes me sick. If we had a truly equal government, as in no man is more politically politically important than another, then the people will be happier.

so, give me some feedback on my views, post urs too if you would like.
inb4calling me a troll, im not here to fuck with this forum.


Welcome. All I have to say is that take some time and really read the threads and posts in this forum. There is a lot to learn and believe me you do have a lot to learn. I started out with the same questions and the answers took some to time to understand and analyze but as long as you're patient, things will make sense.

[#FF0000]

btpound, that is exactly the kind of thing I trashed in the old thread.

The next person who brings up "lol restriction" in a learning thread will get a warning, followed by an infraction for each offense after that.