EDL Riot In Stoke

[Malatesta]

EDL Riot In Stoke by ‘Malatesta’

Following the violence, vandalism and arrests in Stoke yesterday the EDL have very mixed feelings about what happened. Despite a strong turnout the trouble has created a lot of bad publicity and schisms amongst supporters. However, there are also serious lessons for anti-fascists.

What Happened?
“Stoke today was a disaster. We rioted. We throw bottles. We attacked police. Some people were racist.” EDL forum.
As expected the EDL gathered at the RV point at the train station and were taken by the cops to Wetherspoon’s where they were able to drink under close scrutiny. According to 1 EDL forum poster there was trouble in the pub between 2 firms: “we tried to break it up right away, but the c**ts on the bottom floor throwing s**t did not help.” Outside there were some speeches through an apparently feeble PA system and some got restless and tried to break out to march. According to the EDL forum, the police started to kettle them into a smaller and smaller space, there was a clash with the cops and this sparked off wider unrest with the EDL fighting the police and throwing things at them. The EDL forum claims heavy handed policing and there is no need to doubt this. The EDL represent a volatile challenge to the police who know they are up for confrontation which naturally makes the cops nervous and over-react. Anyone who has been on a rowdy demo or attended a football match will have experienced this.

“Uncontrolled violence. Rioting. Vandalism. All committed in the name of the EDL.” EDL forum.
As the demo dispersed 500 EDL marched through a predominantly Asian area smashing windows and damaging cars which led to further clashes with the police. According to the BBC there were 17 arrests, 1,500 EDL, 300 UAF, and 600 cops. The EDL’s website still claims to be “peacefully protesting against militant Islam” but yesterday’s behaviour makes this statement nonsense. Stoke was always going to be a potential problem with a strong football firm and local BNP support and the EDL made a concerted effort to get there in numbers yesterday. The police created the pre-conditions for the trouble: putting them in the pub, kettling them and increasing the pressure. Then it kicks off. The police were outnumbered yesterday and the EDL took liberties climbing on and then almost turning over a police van which will no doubt have infuriated the cops.

‘Lamppost Incident’: The EDL Reaction
There are mixed reactions on the EDL forum with some of the moderates calling for better organisation and exclusion of known trouble makers and some worried about band-wagon jumpers simply turning up to kick off with the cops. Supporters are also concerned over the alcohol fuelled aggression and calling for internal policing, even handing over unruly elements to the cops - which is not going to please the extremists as this is tantamount to grassing. One poster listed the reasons for the trouble: “In-EDL fighting, Football firms fighting, Attacking the police, Police equipment stolen.Police vans turned over. Lamppost incidents. Racial chants. Speeches not being respected. People not shutting up during a 1 minute silence. The occasional Nazi salute.”
The view from the inside is pretty much the view from the outside and it lists the kind of behaviour that has been witnessed at every EDL demo so far. Forum members are calling for official membership cards but this could be dangerous if the list falls into the wrong hands as the BNP membership leaks showed. As of this time, the EDL leadership have yet to make a statement about Stoke.

There was the usual Sieg Heiling despite the leaderships requests not to. The EDL still deny any far right links and on the forum there is resentment of the Nazi presence which could lead to a repeat of yesterday’s infighting. The EDL are ranged right across the far right spectrum with supporters ranging from ‘patriotic’ to the Nazi nutjobs out for violence. The moderate EDLer’s are clearly worried over the effect the Nazis have on public perception. They are also wary of agent provocateurs and there is state interest. A skinhead in full regalia being interviewed by TV was deemed suspect: “Without a doubt he was a plant. I know his ilk and have met his doppelganger ( same s**t same person just cant prove it) many times before.”


EDL Support
The EDL is increasing it’s support on the streets and the demonstrations are increasing in violence and confrontation. However, they are also operating in the short-term. Whilst meeting up for a drink and a crack at the cops and opponents is all good clean fun they are increasing the pressure for the further curbing of civil rights and increasing the likelihood of demonstrations being banned. The government has also raised the level of Terror Alert to Dangerous which has implications for any form of dissent, particularly anti-war demonstrations. The EDL are also attempting to legitimise Islamophobia which similarly helps the government’s agenda as the support for the Afghanistan and Iraq situation is waning and the election draws nigh. The EDL supports the state case for more legislation, surveillance and aggressive policing. The left and far right have both accused the EDL of being state engineered and it is difficult to not suspect this given the stated facts.

There is also the prospect of the EDL filling the vacuum created by Nick Griffin on the far right. As far right antipathy to the BNP increases over finances, jobs for the boys, the non-white membership issue and suspicions over the legitimacy of Griffin as a leader, the EDL are in a position to capitalise on it politically. By organising a political party they will no doubt attract the more extremist voters and benefit from general anti-Muslim sentiment in certain areas. This could also operate as a right wing vote splitting tactic which could well be part of the state agenda. Whether the EDL members have the political will to sustain election campaigns is doubtful unless they can attract former BNP organisers used to generating local supporters.

Learning The Lesson
The anti-fascist turnout yesterday was dismal. Only 300 assorted UAF, community leaders and anti-fascists turned out compared to 1,500 EDL. The EDL tried to break through the police lines to get at the protestors but the cops held firm. Luckily for the anti-fascists as there would have been serious violence. Having the cops protecting anti-fascists gathered in such small numbers is not good. The next official EDL demo is in Dudley on April 4th but there are intimations that Oldham and other towns may see the EDL gather in the more immediate future. Anti-fascists need to get organised to stop them gathering momentum and oppose them in much greater numbers.



‘Malatesta’





NB: all material by ‘Malatesta’ is copyright free.


Please pass it on to anyone who may find it useful.

[No pasarán]

Hopefully the divisions will tear them apart? But if that happens whats going to form out of it? It already seems to contain a lot of different factions that don't seem to see eye to eye I mean look at that mad bastard paul ray (http://www.antifa.org.uk/nucleus3.32/nucleus332/index.php?itemid=202)? Plus its obvious wether the 'generals'... sorry the leaders like it or not there is a fair few out and out nazis amongst there group.

I think we all need to take a careful line with this group, but also not to blindly support millitant islamic groups either (I'm not suggesting anyone on here does). They do containt elements that are a threat. However millitant anti facisim in this country is under police suppression and has been since the days of AFA. Maybe 'cells' like the AFL might work, but then again you already get idiots taking the name of Antifa and AFA who have nothing to do with either group. Flags have been used on UAF demos for fucks sake. But maybe the far right is on one of its periodic rises so anti facisim has to build up again in greater numbers. The UAF are nothing but a bunch of washing fuckin liberals and paper sellers in my experince.

[Melbourne Lefty]

According to the BBC there were 17 arrests, 1,500 EDL, 300 UAF, and 600 cops.


:(:(:(:confused:

[(A)narcho-Matt]

I think its obvious that UAF is no longer fit for purpose. Militant anti-fascists should have realised a long time ago that UAFs pro-state, cross class and scab mentality is not needed in the fight against the far right. The low turnout at this demo is not surprising to people who have attended anti-el demos in the past. whether its collaborating with the state and police in leeds or being completely ineffective in nottingham and stoke, UAF have shown time and time again examples of how not to organise against fascism..

[Stand Your Ground]

I hope to hear of a better turnout by Antifa next time.

[DreamWeaver]

It says 1500 EDL, but if a thousand of those were just footballhoolies looking for an excuse to fight with ol' Bill it's not that bad. In three weeks there will be 7000-8000 in Dresden, most of them being eastern-European openly neo-nazi boneheads. EDL has proven over the past year that they are not a threat, the described effect on legislation could prove troublesome but the EDL is just another fascist group that will succombe to infighting, outside pressure and changes in their hierarchy.

[No pasarán]

I hope to hear of a better turnout by Antifa next time.

Antifa are not just another protest group... You might want to do your research a bit better. Also as the idea of just storming in and kicking boneheads in the face is, it can be a lot harder when you're vastly out numbered by both police and the other side. Plus get caught and you're likely to get treated worse by the police.

Also the EDL are not and out and out facist group. They are nationalistic but they claim not to be racist. The far right do not how a defined group out on the street, but yeah there are obviously elements of them in the EDL. If they become the largest element (which they are not by a long way... yet) or a seperate group, obviously they become a direct threat.

As Dreamweaver says Dresden is a much more clear and direct threat. There will be a huge mob of full on Neo-nazis there from all over europe.

[Stand Your Ground]

Antifa are not just another protest group... You might want to do your research a bit better. Also as the idea of just storming in and kicking boneheads in the face is, it can be a lot harder when you're vastly out numbered by both police and the other side. Plus get caught and you're likely to get treated worse by the police.

Also the EDL are not and out and out facist group. They are nationalistic but they claim not to be racist. The far right do not how a defined group out on the street, but yeah there are obviously elements of them in the EDL. If they become the largest element (which they are not by a long way... yet) or a seperate group, obviously they become a direct threat.

As Dreamweaver says Dresden is a much more clear and direct threat. There will be a huge mob of full on Neo-nazis there from all over europe.
I didn't mean it terms of attacking the EDL, I meant just generally more antifa there so they WOULDN'T be outnumbered.

[Sam_b]

I think its obvious that UAF is no longer fit for purpose. Militant anti-fascists should have realised a long time ago that UAFs pro-state, cross class and scab mentality is not needed in the fight against the far right. The low turnout at this demo is not surprising to people who have attended anti-el demos in the past. whether its collaborating with the state and police in leeds or being completely ineffective in nottingham and stoke, UAF have shown time and time again examples of how not to organise against fascism..


Maybe if you started organising amongst more 'militant anti-fascists' you would get a better turnout, rather than whining that its all the fault of UAF?

[No pasarán]

I didn't mean it terms of attacking the EDL, I meant just generally more antifa there so they WOULDN'T be outnumbered.

You still don't seem to understand what antifa is... it is not a protest group, it is a direct action group. I think what you mean is more Antifacists at the protest.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

Maybe if you started organising amongst more 'militant anti-fascists' you would get a better turnout, rather than whining that its all the fault of UAF?

Or how about "socialists" stop making apologies for an organisation that gives a platform to bosses trying to break strikes, an organisation who collaborates with the state by handing over anti-fascists to the police.

There are people organising working class resistance to fascism, and these people have organised action, but time and time again UAF has to be the "official" face of anti-fascism. When are the SWP going to admit that their front group is simply a Cross-Class colaboration that can do nothing to stop fascism because rather than calling for working class oposition, it mearly tosses out slogans like vote for anyone but the BNP as if the other political parties actually represent the interests of the working class.

[Hit The North]

Or how about "socialists" stop making apologies for an organisation that gives a platform to bosses trying to break strikes

What are you referring to?

[(A)narcho-Matt]

What are you referring to?


In Leeds UAF gave a platform to lib-dem councillors during the leeds bins dispute.

[Stand Your Ground]

You still don't seem to understand what antifa is... it is not a protest group, it is a direct action group. I think what you mean is more Antifacists at the protest.
I didn't know there was a differece. :confused:

[nuisance]

I didn't know there was a differece. :confused:
Simplistically:
UAF are a protest group- complain and counter demonstrate.
Antifa are a direct action group- no complaints, get stuck in and pre-empitively act against the opponent.

[Stand Your Ground]

Simplistically:
UAF are a protest group- complain and counter demonstrate.
Antifa are a direct action group- no complaints, get stuck in and pre-empitively act against the opponent.
Ok thank you for clearing that up. I guess what I was trying to say is that I would like to see a better turn out from ANY anti fascists.

[Rory]

Simplistically:
UAF are a protest group- complain and counter demonstrate.
Antifa are a direct action group- no complaints, get stuck in and pre-empitively act against the opponent.

Although AnitFa don't seem to be anthing you can shut your trap and start organizing. Until I actually see a single useful action by AntiFa (not including trashing someone's house in the middle of the night) I won't take this back.

AntiFa - Put up or shut up.

[nuisance]

Although AnitFa don't seem to be anthing you can shut your trap and start organizing. Until I actually see a single useful action by AntiFa (not including trashing someone's house in the middle of the night) I won't take this back.

AntiFa - Put up or shut up.
If you actually knew anything about antifascism, outside the big UAF demos, then you'd realise that there's been a massive clampdown on militant antifascism (though this has been fluctuating since the days of AFA but the Antifa action at RWB 2008 showed a mass resurgence in militancy and subsequently the security forces are taking large measures to combat it). Aswell, obviously because of the nature of the activities, don't expect all actions to be reported or anything like that. Afterall, It's about getting the job done without trying to draw as much publicity to the subject as possible.

[Rory]

If you actually knew anything about antifascism, outside the big UAF demos, then you'd realise that there's been a massive clampdown on militant antifascism (though this has been fluctuating since the days of AFA but the Antifa action at RWB 2008 showed a mass resurgence in militancy and subsequently the security forces are taking large measures to combat it). Aswell, obviously because of the nature of the activities, don't expect all actions to be reported or anything like that. Afterall, It's about getting the job done without trying to draw as much publicity to the subject as possible.

I thought it being the working class movement, that it obviously is, that people in the working class might have seen or heard something? Oh, no, that's just me being silly. Stupid excuses.

[nuisance]

I thought it being the working class movement, that it obviously is, that people in the working class might have seen or heard something? Oh, no, that's just me being silly. Stupid excuses.
Antifa a working class movement? No, Antifa neither claims to be or intends to become a movement, so you're way off the mark. Antifa is not interested in creating a movement based solely upon antifascism- afterall it's a group comprised of anti-capitalists, hence the aim is ultimately creating a working class movement to smash capitalism, though this is inherently antifascist in itself.

From the Antifa founding statement-

Eliminating the threat of fascism will not magically correct all the wrongs of the world. The first stage of real lasting social improvement begins with the downfall of global capitalism and its replacement with an alternative that puts working class people in control of their own lives. Members of Antifa are involved in a wide variety of other anti-capitalist struggles, but Antifa itself remains focussed on the fight against fascism, which we believe is linked to the wider struggle. The State will employ fascist tactics if necessary in the cause of suppressing dissent, and the fight against openly fascist ideology, wherever it comes from, is a critical part of the fight against the ultimate enemy of capitalism itself.

Militant antifascism is used to create a political vaccum, free from fascists so that anti-capitalist ideas based around community action, so that mutual aid networks can be built up from below to ultimately tackle the reasons (lack of unionised labour leading to foreign workers being used to undercut the indigenious working population, lack of decent affordable housing and services, the list goes on) behind the rise of fascism.

So yeah, check out these links to actually learn what Antifa is about ;)

http://www.antifa.org.uk/foundstat.htm
http://www.antifa.org.uk/interview.htm

[Steve_j]

Antifa a working class movement? No, Antifa neither claims to be or intends to become a movement, so you're way off the mark. Antifa is not interested in creating a movement based solely upon antifascism- afterall it's a group comprised of anti-capitalists, hence the aim is ultimately creating a working class movement to smash capitalism,

Im a bit confused????

[nuisance]

Im a bit confused????
Antifa is a group designed to fight fascism, however members understand that to truly finish fascism off, capitalism must be destoryed by the working class as a revolutionary social movement struggling against the ruling class (not the just fascists). The aim of the group is to stop fascists recruiting from our class, while anti-capitalists spread revolutionary ideas to fill the vaccum left by the absence of fascism. Comprehende?

[harry roberts]

Antifa is an organisation but is much more loose than people think.....more of a mindset. With each respective Antifa collective acting accordingly to the threat of fascism in their area.


And for those who say they haven't seen Antifa..... think bout it, you really think its going to be like the olden days of AFA/Red Action? Battering fash in the city centre in broad daylight? CCTV and OB are on top of everything now a days so those involved in militant anti-fascism have adjusted and act appropriately with each given situation.

One more thing, just cause you don't see it don't mean it aint kicking off still.

[jaffe]

This is about Antifa England an antifascist organisation. In mainland europe antifa is used as shortening term for either an antifascist group (could be from all leftwing tendencies) or an antifascist person.

[Hit The North]

Antifa is a group designed to fight fascism, however members understand that to truly finish fascism off, capitalism must be destoryed by the working class as a revolutionary social movement struggling against the ruling class (not the just fascists). The aim of the group is to stop fascists recruiting from our class, while anti-capitalists spread revolutionary ideas to fill the vaccum left by the absence of fascism. Comprehende?

Except by doing things quietly, in secret, with as little publicity as possible you do not engage the working class in combating fascism, you merely keep workers passive while the activists get the job done and drip propaganda, like honey, into the workers ears.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

Except by doing things quietly, in secret, with as little publicity as possible you do not engage the working class in combating fascism, you merely keep workers passive while the activists get the job done and drip propaganda, like honey, into the workers ears.


In order to effectively fight fascism then we need to confront it physically and intellectualy. Physical confrontation takes two forms which are effective. The first is mass mobilisation of the working class to oppose the Fash when they take to the Streets. This doesnt legitimize UAF because UAF are not an organisation of the working class, they are part of the liberal states response to "right wing extremism". The second type of physical confrontation is the style of antifa and other groups which is based on smaller affinity groups taking the fight to the fash and preventing them from organising. Both have their merits and both have their faults, but they are both neccessary in showing opposition to fascism.

However this physical opposition is not the means to the end. We cant stop fascism because we turn out and oppose it on the streets, or as UAF would have us do by turning out and voting for mainstream parties. We have to realise that fascism is a part of capitalism, it emerges during times of crisis within capitalism and is an attempt by the petty bourgeoisie to prevent proletarianisation at the hands of the capitalist crisis. Therefore every time we oppose capitlism we oppose fascism, and in the same way fascism can only really be stoped through the final destruction of capitalism.

[Montag451]

But where's the political anticapitalist option? Nowhere.
Antifascism without anticapitalism is like trying to cure a disease just by releaving the symptoms.

Antifascism should not be a lifestyle as it has become unless you do with it what is being done in continental europe. Various antifa groups make their presence very visible on protests, and they send out a mixed antifascist but also anticapitalist message, and with their black bloc esthetic it recruits a lot of young people. So basicly maybe antifa england should expand to protests, because being visible is important because:
a) it's pre-emptive, your enemies are being intimidated
b) it attracts new people to the movement
c)a militant opposition is visible to the public.

You dont need to fight with the fash on protests, you can do it as you always do but engage in demos the other time.

The problem with the continental left is that while the anticapitalist character is visible we still lack parties or in anarchist cases - anarcho-syndicalist groups which can recruit working class people that are not into street politics,demos. That means,older,middle aged working people - basicly the working core.

[[email protected] War]

Antifa a working class movement? No, Antifa neither claims to be or intends to become a movement, so you're way off the mark. Antifa is not interested in creating a movement based solely upon antifascism- afterall it's a group comprised of anti-capitalists, hence the aim is ultimately creating a working class movement to smash capitalism, though this is inherently antifascist in itself.


That is yet more anarchist avoidance of a political problem, similar to old debates about syndicalism or the political route which are debates over 100 years old.

I think, from an anarchist pov that what is needed is an anti fascist movement, that will of course incorporate lots of anti racist groups and activities. We desparately need a movement without attempts at leadership, where people can engage in ordinary anti fascist work, linking campaigns, case work etc without being tied to 'Anti Fa type direct action imperatives'.

Rather other types of direct action should be prioritised, and political libertarian anti fascism engaged in, which is something that FRFI (FIght racism fight imperialism) have been doing (casework and campaigns). If anarchists fail to do this then they are outside the political arena.

[Bitter Ashes]

This is about Antifa England an antifascist organisation. In mainland europe antifa is used as shortening term for either an antifascist group (could be from all leftwing tendencies) or an antifascist person.
Antifa England (capital "A") :)

[BUDDHA]

In order to effectively fight fascism then we need to confront it physically and intellectualy. Physical confrontation takes two forms which are effective. The first is mass mobilisation of the working class to oppose the Fash when they take to the Streets. This doesnt legitimize UAF because UAF are not an organisation of the working class, they are part of the liberal states response to "right wing extremism". The second type of physical confrontation is the style of antifa and other groups which is based on smaller affinity groups taking the fight to the fash and preventing them from organising. Both have their merits and both have their faults, but they are both neccessary in showing opposition to fascism.

However this physical opposition is not the means to the end. We cant stop fascism because we turn out and oppose it on the streets, or as UAF would have us do by turning out and voting for mainstream parties. We have to realise that fascism is a part of capitalism, it emerges during times of crisis within capitalism and is an attempt by the petty bourgeoisie to prevent proletarianisation at the hands of the capitalist crisis. Therefore every time we oppose capitlism we oppose fascism, and in the same way fascism can only really be stoped through the final destruction of capitalism.

How far will physically confronting fascism work? The working class has been abandoned by the left.
It would make more sense for the left to start listening to the working class and ask what they need .

[ls]

How far will physically confronting fascism work? The working class has been abandoned by the left.
It would make more sense for the left to start listening to the working class and ask what they need .

Aren't you banned yet? God what is this shit.

Physically confronting it has worked from the 1930s, all the way up until now - and it still does when people actually manage to confront it (ie the UAF don't ruin things). Every example points to the success of physical confrontation, so I advise you stop posting utter shite.