To all Australians: What Will You Be Doing This Invasion Day?

[AK]

It's stupid that 21 million hearts burst with national pride whenever Australia Day comes up. Especially since a large and ever-growing minority of the Australian population are immigrants. Nationalism is being proud of your nation, implying the one you are born into. Anti-immigrant sentiment coupled with national pride creates a desire for immigrants to become "true blue Aussies". All of these true blue Aussies seem to ignore the fact that the 26th January 1788 marked the start of massacres and injustice against the Aboriginal population of Australia in the name of Imperial greed. So what are your thoughts and how will you be observing this Invasion Day?

[ROBOTROT]

Screw nationalism, it's a divisive bourgeois construction whether you were "born into it" or not. Anyway, this invasion day I'll be working a 12 hour shift with a 150% public holiday penalty rate. Yet another advantage of being in a highly unionised job.

[core_1]

You have to admit though, it's a good excuse for a bbq :cool:

[AK]

You have to admit though, it's a good excuse for a bbq :cool:
Gotta love smoke blowing in your face and burnt meat :thumbup1:

[Steve_j]

Mourn the deaths of the many men women and children that died defending their land from a forign invasion and subsequent occupation.

And might just go burn an australian flag over in sheppards bush or earls court :)

[Niccolò Rossi]

I suspect I will be having a lazy day around the house and a barbeque lunch with the family.


Anyway, this invasion day I'll be working a 12 hour shift with a 150% public holiday penalty rate. Yet another advantage of being in a highly unionised job.

This doesn't support your case well at all. I work in the Fastfood industry and we get double pay (i.e. 200%) on public holidays (including Aistralia Day). However, we none of our shop is unionised and there is only a tiny minority in the entire industry that are.

[danny bohy]

burning flags and trying to explain to drunk bogans what australia day is really celebrating.

[Chambered Word]

In a year or two once I have my license and a car I'll be driving around with Soviet flags on my car just to piss off all the flag-waving tossers who put Australian flags on their car.

[AK]

In a year or two once I have my license and a car I'll be driving around with Soviet flags on my car just to piss off all the flag-waving tossers who put Australian flags on their car.
Don't forget the megaphones saying FUCK NATIONALISM and FUCK AUSTRALIA DAY. XD

[Niccolò Rossi]

I think alot of what has been said in this thread has been made in jest, but I would like to ask if others think that burning Australian flags, flying red flags and making abstract denunciations of Australian nationalism in isolation are effective strategies to acomplish anything, and if so, what?

[AK]

I think alot of what has been said in this thread has been made in jest, but I would like to ask if others think that burning Australian flags, flying red flags and making abstract denunciations of Australian nationalism in isolation are effective strategies to acomplish anything, and if so, what?
They're only effective strategies if people know what we're fighting for. Otherwise socialism gets into their heads as un-Australian or something. We're burning the flag of the state, not of the people.

[ROBOTROT]

This doesn't support your case well at all. I work in the Fastfood industry and we get double pay (i.e. 200%) on public holidays (including Aistralia Day). However, we none of our shop is unionised and there is only a tiny minority in the entire industry that are.A 150% penalty means double pay and a half. The 150% (i.e. the penalty) is in addition to the normal hourly rate.

[core_1]

There's sure a lot of "whooo! Fuck the system!" going on in this thread.

[Niccolò Rossi]

A 150% penalty means double pay and a half. The 150% (i.e. the penalty) is in addition to the normal hourly rate.

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I interpreted you originally to mean 150% of your base wage (I find it easier talking in terms of 'double' or 'double and a half').

Out of curiosity what industry do you work in and what union are you a member of?


They're only effective strategies if people know what we're fighting for. Otherwise socialism gets into their heads as un-Australian or something. We're burning the flag of the state, not of the people.

This seems to me a contradiction. You try to prevent socialism acquiring an 'un-Australian' stigma by... burning flags and chanting 'Fuck Australia Day'?

Socialism is most definitely 'un-Australian', it opposes all manifestations of nationalism. However, nationalism can not be combatted by flag burning or chanting by individuals in the abstract.

[AK]

This seems to me a contradiction. You try to prevent socialism acquiring an 'un-Australian' stigma by... burning flags and chanting 'Fuck Australia Day'?

Socialism is most definitely 'un-Australian', it opposes all manifestations of nationalism. However, nationalism can not be combatted by flag burning or chanting by individuals in the abstract.

We need to educate the masses first, but for now, doing that shit (flag burning) is claimed as un-Australian.

[Yazman]

I support burning the State Flag because its not an Australian flag. It is a British naval ensign.

[ROBOTROT]

Out of curiosity what industry do you work in and what union are you a member of?

I work for the Victorian Dept. of Human Services in Disability Accommodation Services (thus the need to work on public holidays) my union is HACSU.


Socialism is most definitely 'un-Australian', it opposes all manifestations of nationalism. However, nationalism can not be combatted by flag burning or chanting by individuals in the abstract. I agree on both points. The only nationalism that I think socialists should support is that of oppressed nations like Palestine or Tibet, and even that support has to be given with certain reservations.

Also, I once witnessed a handful of members of the DSP burn an American flag on my university campus, the reaction was definitely not what they intended and did absolutely nothing positive. (Unless being screamed at and taunted by a few irate right wingers and ignored by virtually everyone else counts as positive).

[AK]

The only nationalism that I think socialists should support is that of oppressed nations like Palestine or Tibet, and even that support has to be given with certain reservations.
No, not nationalism, national liberation: socialist style. If we just get another bourgeois fuck to head the government then I don't call it liberation.

[ROBOTROT]

No, not nationalism, national liberation: socialist style. If we just get another bourgeois fuck to head the government then I don't call it liberation.
Yes you are right. Nationalism is the wrong term to use.

[core_1]

We need to educate the masses first, but for now, doing that shit (flag burning) is claimed as un-Australian.
I may be knit picking here, but we're not here to educate the masses. The working class becomes conscious through its rising and falling class struggle. 'Educating the masses' is a bit utopian.

[AK]

I may be knit picking here, but we're not here to educate the masses. The working class becomes conscious through its rising and falling class struggle. 'Educating the masses' is a bit utopian.

The working class of today is not educated properly about communism, socialism, anarchism or the like. They think we're some guys who like to eat peoples freedom and liberty and praise satan. They're a bunch of indoctrinated nationalists who don't know any better. We educate them about the concepts of class struggle and they go out and see it for themselves and they're inspired to do something about it.

[core_1]

The working class of today is not educated properly about communism, socialism, anarchism or the like. They think we're some guys who like to eat peoples freedom and liberty and praise satan. They're a bunch of indoctrinated nationalists who don't know any better. We educate them about the concepts of class struggle and they go out and see it for themselves and they're inspired to do something about it.
ah but Remember that class struggle is inevitable. The working class doesn't need to be 'educated' about communism, anarchism, etc before it will engage in class conflict. This is everywhere from postie strikes to 'boss nappings' to starbucks workers complaining about their jobs. Now if you mean that it is important to discuss with workers, spread information and attend rallies and the like then yes I agree. But if the word 'Communism' is discredited, the communist struggle will still exist under some other name. Communism is the direct culmination of the historic class struggle and its popularity will rise and fall with each world crises.

[AK]

ah but Remember that class struggle is inevitable. The working class doesn't need to be 'educated' about communism, anarchism, etc before it will engage in class conflict.
The current working class does. All of communism/socialism that they've heard of is either propaganda or misinformation in schools. And the vast majority of Australians that I've talked to are apathetic when it comes to politics, although they blindly support national patriotism, the monarchy and the wars in the middle east.


This is everywhere from postie strikes to 'boss nappings' to starbucks workers complaining about their jobs. Now if you mean that it is important to discuss with workers, spread information and attend rallies and the like then yes I agree. But if the word 'Communism' is discredited, the communist struggle will still exist under some other name. Communism is the direct culmination of the historic class struggle and its popularity will rise and fall with each world crises.
If you hadn't noticed, Australia was I think the least imapcted (or made out to be the least by bourgeois media) by the global capitalist crisis. No-one complained much as compared to other industrialised countries (namely the US). Australia seemed to go cruising by without much trouble. If this is rising support for socialism in Australia during a crisis, I'd hate to see support for socialism without a global crisis.

[Chambered Word]

There's sure a lot of "whooo! Fuck the system!" going on in this thread.

Yes. Yes, there is.

[core_1]

And the vast majority of Australians that I've talked to are apathetic when it comes to politics, although they blindly support national patriotism, the monarchy and the wars in the middle east.


If you hadn't noticed, Australia was I think the least imapcted (or made out to be the least by bourgeois media) by the global capitalist crisis. No-one complained much as compared to other industrialised countries (namely the US). Australia seemed to go cruising by without much trouble. If this is rising support for socialism in Australia during a crisis, I'd hate to see support for socialism without a global crisis.
Hardly, An Australia day poll just showed that 20% less of Australians say they are 'proud of their country'. Secularisation continues to grow along with a distrust of clerics. Regardless of how we were affected by this crisis, there will be many more, one after another. I don't think a majority of Australians support patriotism. I read an article the other day that a massive amount of Australians think that patriotism is thinly veiled racism. Also, your point about the gfc not affecting us as much as the rest of the world is exactly why the socialist movement has not dramatically risen. However capitalism is an endless cycle of crises.
Additionally, the aussie economy rests a great deal on chinese exports. If they stop consuming the fine products Austalian companies make then there will be a lot more touble. Our economy is more unstable then the bourgeois would care to admit.

[AK]

Hardly, An Australia day poll just showed that 20% less of Australians say they are 'proud of their country'. Secularisation continues to grow along with a distrust of clerics. Regardless of how we were affected by this crisis, there will be many more, one after another. I don't think a majority of Australians support patriotism. I read an article the other day that a massive amount of Australians think that patriotism is thinly veiled racism. Also, your point about the gfc not affecting us as much as the rest of the world is exactly why the socialist movement has not dramatically risen. However capitalism is an endless cycle of crises.
Additionally, the aussie economy rests a great deal on chinese exports. If they stop consuming the fine products Austalian companies make then there will be a lot more touble. Our economy is more unstable then the bourgeois would care to admit.
This poll you speak of, who did they ask, and how many repondents were there? Also, it seems like I've been watching too much of the bourgeois news >.<

[Yazman]

Australia was mostly unaffected by it all. It never even entered a recession. Not even really any real periods of negative growth.

[Chambered Word]

Australia was mostly unaffected by it all. It never even entered a recession. Not even really any real periods of negative growth.

Some people did lose their employment though, from what I've heard. We were mostly unaffected by the crisis though.

[AK]

Some people did lose their employment though, from what I've heard. We were mostly unaffected by the crisis though.
In any crisis people lose their unemployment. I'm guessing most of these were employed by multinationals.

[core_1]

This poll you speak of, who did they ask, and how many repondents were there? Also, it seems like I've been watching too much of the bourgeois news >.<
Ironically it was from a massively bourgeois source 'sky news'. oh yeah, foxtel:cool:. They didn't comment on the survey size. Regarding the recession, unemployment rates were at first expected to increase to 11% initially. Now of course it hasn't ( I think its around 7% now) but it gives an impression that the Australian economy, while its withstood 'pure' recession, certainly isn't invincible. Many people think its because of rudd's stimulus spending and I wouldn't know, but these quick escapes aren't always going to be available when a recession hits. Also, see my last point regarding the chinese economy, we're not out completely out of the woods yet and arguably we never will be.

[chebol]

What will I be doing on Invasion Day? Rabble-rousing at the Yabun festival in Victoria Park, Sydney.

[Yazman]

In any crisis people lose their unemployment. I'm guessing most of these were employed by multinationals.

Yep. FUCKLOADS of people lost their employment. Especially in the area I'm at right now. Even I did. It sucked. The people were of course affected by it, its more that Australian capitalists somehow managed to avoid it.

[Rousedruminations]

true, being an australian myself i didn't celebrate it nor did i have the thought of saying ' happy australia day' but knowing what happened on 26th January 1788 that it marked the start of massacres and injustices against the Aboriginal population of Australia,it makes me loath in disgust those that do celebrate it with zeal yet do not consider what happened on that day.

Remember saying 'Sorry' to the stolen generation of indigenous Australia only Occurred symbolically when Kevin Rudd was sworn in 2008 making a Speech in Parliament. Australia being federalized in 1901 and Edmund Barton being the first prime minister of Australia, it took almost 107 years to realize that to native australians their derogatory, discriminatory and oppressive behaviors, policies and agendas was immoral. What is more John Howard , from liberal party refused to say sorry to those suffered under the ' white Australia' policy .. he never did in his 12 years in office :(.. if there was another Malcomn X during that period when children where forcibly removed from their mothers and made to assimilate to the 'whiter' part australia at that time, so that the darker Pigmentation of their skin would fade away... it would have been great.. they deserve better !

[Chambered Word]

Yep. FUCKLOADS of people lost their employment. Especially in the area I'm at right now. Even I did. It sucked. The people were of course affected by it, its more that Australian capitalists somehow managed to avoid it.

Apparently most of the jobs were sent to other countries (the executives couldn't take a five dollar pay cut, I suppose :rolleyes:).

I don't particularly hate Australia Day, but the moronic flag-waving by people who probably don't even know the country's history gets me pissed.

So yeah, I'm glad that's all over.