Eve online and communism

[Comrade_Stalin]

I was looking at eve online and found what some people call “commie corps”. It seems that these corporations can have a 100% tax rate, which they use to give free ships to it members. What do you guy think of this? Do you think that a 100% tax rate makes your corporation into a commie corp?

Another question I have for you guys, is if I was to use eve online to model capitalism and communism, what form would it take, from your point of view? What would I need to do, to have a capitalist corp. and what would I need to do, to have a communist crop. ? Also what do you guy think that it would look like?

[ArrowLance]

As nice as that all might sound, I don't think any video games can accurately simulate economics like that. Games are often bred to be competitive, for fun. Also, since it is all just for fun people do things they wouldn't normally do.

While it sounds nice to redist. the wealth in a game, to benefit everyone, that really isn't what communism is all about. It is much more indepth than just redist. of wealth

[sanpal]

Just a curious, what does the word "eve" mean in this thread? Is it an online Game? kinda strategy?

Thanks.

[Q]

Just a curious, what does the word "eve" mean in this thread? Is it an online Game? kinda strategy?

Thanks.

EVE Online (http://play.eveonline.com/en/home.aspx)

[Saullos]

I would say it's more of a democratic-socialistic organization, more akin to say an extreme version of the Scandinavian countries.

Instead of a 60% income tax, it's a 100% income tax. On the other hand, the means of production, such as large cargo/mining ships, belong to the individuals and not the whole community. And there is still a centralized government that runs things.

[Tatarin]

Do you think that a 100% tax rate makes your corporation into a commie corp?

Taxation is also a part of the capitalist system, although it can be considered "leftist" with a progressive taxation (the richer the more). That does not make it communist, which would require the workers to own that corporation and decide what is to be produced democratically.

Yes, the Scandinavian "system" was one of higher taxation, but remember that that tax were returned to a very stable healthcare system, social net, anti-poor measures, pensions and support for students and studies. Also, the state had ownership in so called "state-companies", and it was even considered a good while back to try a planned economy (at least in Sweden), but obviously that never planned out.

[Tablo]

This is similiar to something I was planning on doing in another game that will be out in a couple years. The game is Inifinity: The Quest For Earth and I wanted to make my own Soviet Union in the game.

[Comrade_Stalin]

As nice as that all might sound, I don't think any video games can accurately simulate economics like that. Games are often bred to be competitive, for fun. Also, since it is all just for fun people do things they wouldn't normally do.


While it sounds nice to redist. the wealth in a game, to benefit everyone, that really isn't what communism is all about. It is much more indepth than just redist. of wealth

I never said that it was a perfect model. It should be noted that the game was never made to model communism vs. capitalism. But there it is, communist corporations of all things.


I would say it's more of a democratic-socialistic organization, more akin to say an extreme version of the Scandinavian countries.


Instead of a 60% income tax, it's a 100% income tax. On the other hand, the means of production, such as large cargo/mining ships, belong to the individuals and not the whole community. And there is still a centralized government that runs things.

If I understand the game system right, the resources of corporation are held in hangers, which people with the right corporation role. For example an accountant can use corp. money to pay corp bills.


Taxation is also a part of the capitalist system, although it can be considered "leftist" with a progressive taxation (the richer the more). That does not make it communist, which would require the workers to own that corporation and decide what is to be produced democratically.
Yes, the Scandinavian "system" was one of higher taxation, but remember that that tax were returned to a very stable healthcare system, social net, anti-poor measures, pensions and support for students and studies. Also, the state had ownership in so called "state-companies", and it was even considered a good while back to try a planned economy (at least in Sweden), but obviously that never planned out.

You bring up a good point comrade, is the corp. tax, a progressive tax, or a regressive tax. Now the question is what are the requirements for the workers to own that corporation and decide what is to be produced democratically

[cb9's_unity]

This really should be moved to the website section of the forum.

And no, a game can't simulate a real economy or prove any real world economic theory's. The need for socialism occurred because of materialist conditions in the real world. An mmo about spaceships has few similarities to the real world.

[Comrade_Stalin]

The fun thing with this model is that their is real people(not bots) behind it, with a supply and demand price system. I would question the "materialist conditions" as pilots, still need ammo, clones, and ship.

[Q]

The fun thing with this model is that their is real people(not bots) behind it, with a supply and demand price system. I would question the "materialist conditions" as pilots, still need ammo, clones, and ship.
So, capitalism (or rather, the mainstream theory of capitalism) is hardcoded into the game. How is striving for communism making any sense then?

[Comrade_Stalin]

Because it shows that communism is hardwired in to use, as we are willing to make communist corp. in a game hardwired to be pro capitalist. This is counter to the capitalist point of view, which is that greed is hardwired into us.

[sanpal]

I have never played online games and don't know theirs features, though I see effect of it when young men become "mad" through playing during all day/night doing harm to his/her health or wasting the time. Though undoubtedly there is a positive effect when young people prepare itself to future production/distribution relations with inter-net. So I see a great sense in the online game to meet and learn elements of communism. Another question - what would be a fun? What is the "fun" for new members to come RevLeft? Yes, to learn about left theory, etc. I think in the case of game it would be the same: mostly they would be concerned. So it is not necessary to have "fun" game but it could be simple a "business" game, to demonstrate how "mechanism" of communist reproduction is working. For it there is no necessity to introduce plural data for planning, production and distributing in the game area but only a few to show a conception. Such online game could be useful after revolution for real application to fix connections between consumers and producers, etc. And in that case the number of data could be increased.

[Comrade_Stalin]

I don't find this forum fun, it more like work, where I have to answer questions, and fight with people over the smallest things. Also understand that there is no perfect model out there. All models are built on assumptions which are used to reduce the complex world, down to something that we can understand. These models also allow us to answer questions that no one has the answer to.

[Auspicious one]

i play eve online, and have seen corps with communist ideals fail, eve is really made to be a sand box free market system

the only system that works in EVE is a dictatorship of some sort in each corp and alliance

[Auspicious one]

the 0.0 areas are eve are free market and almost like communes of ppl working together to protect their alliances and ideals of how a corp should work, they have leaders tho, but you can go there solo and try to survive but wouldnt last very long or be able to have much fun without a group of ppl to fight by your side

[Meridian]

This really should be moved to the website section of the forum.

And no, a game can't simulate a real economy or prove any real world economic theory's. The need for socialism occurred because of materialist conditions in the real world. An mmo about spaceships has few similarities to the real world.
But a game does indeed consist of materialist conditions, just like the real world. In games these materialist conditions are called game mechanics.

Think about it: What gives a player a motivation towards an end is equal to what gives a person motivation towards an end. An economic system in a game is still an economic system.