Moderenity - who needs it

[Dimentio]

I haven't seen it yet, but i gather it's a film about how terrible humanity is. At least in Dances With Wolves the good guys were humans themselves (the native Americans), even if the film was thoroughly anti-modernity in theme. Here you seem to have anti-modernity as well as general, blanket misanthropy.

Modernity isn't bad, but the capitalist variation of modernity is inherently unsustainable and will lead to its own demise wouldn't a transformation of revolutionary proportions salvage humanity before that.

Sometimes, your fetishisation of development seems as parodical as the fetishisation of nature on behalf of the primmies. :rolleyes:

[Vanguard1917]

Modernity isn't bad, but the capitalist variation of modernity is inherently unsustainable

Okay, but does the film put forward a better alternative? If you don't put forward a progressive alternative to the capitalist version of modernity while opposing it, you're very much a conservative, which is why all reactionary forces in the last 200 years or so have had to position themselves in one way or another against the ideals of modernity. Socialism represents a continuation and intensification of modernity, not hostility towards it.

[Dimentio]

Okay, but does the film put forward a better alternative? If you don't put forward a progressive alternative to the capitalist version of modernity while opposing it, you're very much a conservative, which is why all reactionary forces in the last 200 years or so have had to position themselves in one way or another against the ideals of modernity. Socialism represents a continuation and intensification of modernity, not hostility towards it.

No it doesn't propagate any progressive values. But technology and a higher quality of life has to go hand in hand with a sustainable stewardship of the planet. Otherwise, your socialist paradise would just go down the pipes when it has depleted its resource base. Experiences have shown that civilisations which are depleting their resource bases are often falling down to a more primitive state of organisation with more crude and less developed productive relations.

But remember that fascism also present itself as a continuation and intensification of modernity.

[Vanguard1917]

No it doesn't propagate any progressive values.

Which is what i'm getting at.



But remember that fascism also present itself as a continuation and intensification of modernity


Not really. Nazism, for example, saw itself as a force against the evils of modern society -- e.g. democratisation, urbanisation, liberty, cosmopolitanism. Fascism represented an assault on modernity and the Enlightenment values which went with it -- despite what postmodernists like Adorno and Horkheimer claimed.

[Dimentio]

Which is what i'm getting at.



Not really. Nazism, for example, saw itself as a force against the evils of modern society -- e.g. democratisation, urbanisation, liberty, cosmopolitanism. Fascism represented an assault on modernity and the Enlightenment values which went with it -- despite what postmodernists like Adorno and Horkheimer claimed.

National socialism =/= Fascism. They had completely different ideological roots.

[Plagueround]

I haven't seen it yet, but i gather it's a film about how terrible humanity is. At least in Dances With Wolves the good guys were humans themselves (the native Americans), even if the film was thoroughly anti-modernity in theme. Here you seem to have anti-modernity as well as general, blanket misanthropy.

I think you're confusing anti-modernity with anti-not kicking people off their land and murdering them. We're doing much better now though, I mean, just look at Pine Ridge (http://www.aaronhuey.com/). What progress!