Road heating?

[Q]

In these cold times (well, here anyway) there has been a lot of snow and ice on the roads. This is not only annoying, but also dangerous. At least one woman died already by slipping on her bike. The authorities have had issues in dealing with it because, as this has been an exceptional year regarding snow, they're running out of salt for the roads.

As I'm on the road every morning for my work I deal with the annoyances aswell and I was thinking: How feasible would it actually be to have some kind of road heating? It doesn't have to be particularly warm, just to be able to let the road stay on just above the freezing point so snow will melt.

Are there already similar projects around the world? How could it would? What kind of energy levels would this take?

[Kamerat]

The rich have heated driveways, and some walkways are heated (usually where old people live) here in Norway. I think there are none for roads. Its very energy consuming.

[Ovi]

It is mentioned on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deicing) and it other places (http://www.roadsbridges.com/articles/currentevents.pdf) though I assume it's quite energy intensive.

[piet11111]

since no road has it this would mean that at the beginning all of the roads would need to be broken open to install the heating elements.
that alone is an impossible obstacle then you would need to provide a means of bringing heat to those heating elements (hot water tubes or electric elements) that infrastructure would also require a massive amount of money.

well i just don't see that happening seeing how country's are already lacking funds to take proper care of their road systems as it is already how would they cough up the money to maintain a heated road system under capitalism.

[Luisrah]

I think it's possible.

If we used nuclear power correctly, and if a socialist revolution came around, that would seem quite feasible.

I say nuclear power because it would probably consume a good amount of energy, and I say socialist revolution, because if it hasn't been developped, than it doesn't bring much profit, which means true progress in terms of making a better heater that consumes less energy will never come until science develops without the Capital controlling it.

[ls]

You don't need to just heat the roads, salt/grit melts away snow and ice quite well, I don't see why you couldn't use some kind of combination..

[Q]

You don't need to just heat the roads, salt/grit melts away snow and ice quite well, I don't see why you couldn't use some kind of combination..
1. As mentioned in the OP salt has the nasty tendency of running out of stock if a winter is particularly hard.
2. Salt stops being very effective when it is colder than -5C.
3. It isn't particularly good for the environment.

[MarxSchmarx]

You don't need to just heat the roads, salt/grit melts away snow and ice quite well, I don't see why you couldn't use some kind of combination..1. As mentioned in the OP salt has the nasty tendency of running out of stock if a winter is particularly hard.
2. Salt stops being very effective when it is colder than -5C.

The limitation of salt, though, is due to poor planning. It seems sensible to have enough on hand to deal with record bad winters, even if most of the year it's just lying around. Preparing for the worst is why we have public services like these anyway.



3. It isn't particularly good for the environment.

To be honest, I can't imagine heating the road is either.

[Q]

The limitation of salt, though, is due to poor planning. It seems sensible to have enough on hand to deal with record bad winters, even if most of the year it's just lying around. Preparing for the worst is why we have public services like these anyway.
I guess we have to thank capitalist "efficiency" for having too low amounts in stock...


To be honest, I can't imagine heating the road is either.
Howso? The only downside I see with heating the roads is its energy requirement which can have a bad impact.

I saw a report on Dutch television a few days ago (http://nos.nl/video/129413-inwoners-moskou-lachen-om-sneeuwproblemen-nederland.html) on how they deal with it in Moscow. It's in Dutch, but by just watching you can make out the details just fine.

They don't just plough the snow aside, but pick it up with thousands of trucks and bring it to special snow melting installations where it gets grinded and dropped into 15 degrees Celsius water, so it melts instantly.

We can learn for that :)

[KC]

Edit

[mikelepore]

In five minutes you can easily calculate the energy cost of melting an icy road. Assume you have ice of a certain thickness on a road of a certain width and length. Multiply the three dimensions to get the volume of ice. Multiply the volume by the density of ice to get the mass. Multiply the mass by the heat of fusion of water to get the amount of energy that you have to supply to melt the ice. To the energy term you have to add the mass multiplied by the specific heat of ice multiplied by the an estimated number of degrees difference that will get the temperature of the ice up to zero degree celsius. Convert from calories or joules to kilowatt-hours, and then multiply by the price of electricity that appears on your electric bill.

[Q]

In five minutes you can easily calculate the energy cost of melting an icy road. Assume you have ice of a certain thickness on a road of a certain width and length. Multiply the three dimensions to get the volume of ice. Multiply the volume by the density of ice to get the mass.
0 :)

The whole point of road heating would be that ice never forms on the road in the first place.


Multiply the mass by the heat of fusion of water to get the amount of energy that you have to supply to melt the ice. To the energy term you have to add the mass multiplied by the specific heat of ice multiplied by the an estimated number of degrees difference that will get the temperature of the ice up to zero degree celsius. Convert from calories or joules to kilowatt-hours, and then multiply by the price of electricity that appears on your electric bill.
You forgot the length of the road itself (although I guess you had those dimensions in the ice volume), but let's settle with 1 kilometer as a standard unit.

[mikelepore]

I said "a certain width and length."

[KC]

Edit

[mikelepore]

The installation might not be that costly. Some roads already get steel mesh put into the concrete to help them survive thermal expansion and contraction cycles. You could insert two terminals some distance apart and apply a voltage across them.

Road Mesh Technical Data Sheet
http://www.gabion-yihang.com/Road-Mesh.pdf

[KC]

Edit

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

It might be worthwhile installing heating elements into bridges and overpasses located in areas that experience a lot of snow and ice, since salty water corrodes steel - the cost of heating a bridge/overpass might be less than the increased overhead caused by saltwater corrosion. Heating entire lengths of road probably wouldn't be practical unless we have lots of energy available or waste heat to get rid of.

[eyedrop]

Heating entire lengths of road probably wouldn't be practical unless we have lots of energy available or waste heat to get rid of.
It should also be considered that energy consumption is at it's highest during the winter and that we generally always have energy crisises during the winter (artificial too a degree).