Revolutionary Communist Party U.S.A

[ReVoLuTiOnArY-BrOtHeR]

I would like to know what are the different perspectives on this party. I am currently reading their constitution and manifesto. Thank you very much.

[cenv]

You might want to check out this thread (http://www.revleft.com/vb/all-communists-do-t119792/index.html) about them. There's probably 10,000 other RCP threads on these forums if you use the search feature, since they're one of the most controversial parties in the US right now.

[cb9's_unity]

Yah this has been talked about a lot.

The RCP is a maoist group. There is some debate about the ideas of the RCP's leader, Bob Avakian, but almost everyone agrees that the party's worship of him has gone far over the top. Many believe the RCP has devolved into a cult of Bob Avakian. Thats the whole issue in a nutshell.

[redwinter]

I think the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA is the leading force for revolution in the United States, and that its chairman Bob Avakian has revolutionized the science of Marxism with his theoretical contributions.

It looks like you've started at the right place to learn about the Party by studying their manifesto and constitution. I would also recommend watching Avakian's speech Revolution: Why It's Necessary, Why It's Possible, What It's All About, online at www.revolutiontalk.net -- it provides a broad sweep from a critique of capitalism-imperialism, to the history of past socialist revolutions, to the revolutionary seizure of power and a new vision of how society could be transformed towards communism.

If you look for perspectives from other people "on the left," obviously having different ideological lines, one thing to keep in mind is that there are a few who will throw out unprincipled and baseless attacks (eg cb9s_unity's claims that "everybody agrees" that the RCP is a cult, or worships Avakian, etc -- these are lies, plain and simple). That kind of bullshit should be repudiated. On the other hand there are definitely different ideological lines out there among different socialist/communist groups, and if you're trying to get a sense of how they differ, you should read different literature, and compare and contrast the different lines that the various organizations uphold and see how they differ from the RCP.

[Tablo]

I think the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA is the leading force for revolution in the United States, and that its chairman Bob Avakian has revolutionized the science of Marxism with his theoretical contributions.
No. I do not see them as a leading Revolutionary force. I have much more respect for the PLP and PSL. Even the American Party of Labor is better than the Revolutionary Communist Party. I will not say they are a cult, but I feel that the parties I mentioned are far more working class. Plus Avakian is an idiot.

[Tiktaalik]

The RCP is awesome for doing nothing but jumping at any opportunity to be heard so they can hawk their paper and whatever new book Bob Avakian put out. They have a tendency to be loud or hold up a conversation or event and constantly insist that they have the "right revolutionary leadership" under Chairman Bob.

Their paper is hilarious because of the way it promotes its 3-step plan and Bob Avakian's vision while simultaneously combining obscure Maoist philosophical pieces with tabloid-style format that rivals supermarket tabloids. It usually ends up on the ground at events or in the trash.

The best thing I've experienced with the RCP was one of their minions yelling in my face about how anarchists just didn't have the correct leadership and kept mentioning how Mao rode on a horse during the Long March and how it was necessary. I remember telling the dude that it'd be sweet to see someone cap Mao and let the horse go free :D

It was also sweet to hear about at some anarchist bookfair in Cali, someone dumped water on all their shit.

Oh yeah, to anyone that doesn't know that much about the RCP - it wasn't until a few years ago that they stopped calling homosexuality a decadent, bourgeios practice. Now they'd have you believe that they're the most queer-friendly group in town.

[Uncle Rob]

I think the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA is the leading force for revolution in the United States, and that its chairman Bob Avakian has revolutionized the science of Marxism with his theoretical contributions.

It looks like you've started at the right place to learn about the Party by studying their manifesto and constitution. I would also recommend watching Avakian's speech Revolution: Why It's Necessary, Why It's Possible, What It's All About, online at www revolution talk net -- it provides a broad sweep from a critique of capitalism-imperialism, to the history of past socialist revolutions, to the revolutionary seizure of power and a new vision of how society could be transformed towards communism.

If you look for perspectives from other people "on the left," obviously having different ideological lines, one thing to keep in mind is that there are a few who will throw out unprincipled and baseless attacks (eg cb9s_unity's claims that "everybody agrees" that the RCP is a cult, or worships Avakian, etc -- these are lies, plain and simple). That kind of bullshit should be repudiated. On the other hand there are definitely different ideological lines out there among different socialist/communist groups, and if you're trying to get a sense of how they differ, you should read different literature, and compare and contrast the different lines that the various organizations uphold and see how they differ from the RCP.


Actually, i would contest that your party is the ball and chain on the ankle of the realization of a soviet democracy in the united states. Furthermore I would also like to point out that Bobby has done nothing except re-word "A vanguard party that knows when to retreat, advance, zigzag, and make compromises" into " a solid core with elasticity"

Now what I want to know is this: If you're not a cult, why is it that you put so much faith into one man? Why have you based your party program on focusing all of your efforts and resources into promoting this one man? Now I could understand if you were doing so for the purpose of showing the world how good he is at rephrasing but no, your party asserts that this man is a fantastic communist theoretician who has solved the crisis of theory and brought Marxism to the next level. He hasn't. Your party has existed for decades and yet you STILL lack the ability to get any traction with any section of the working class, a class I would like to mention, you completely and utterly have rejected. In your inability to link up with all sections of the working class you instead lunge yourselves into the portion of society that shows the most promise. The victims of police brutality, prison inmates, rape victims, you name it you've been there, but when they have failed to accept the prophet Bob into their lives you've ousted and rejected them. You aren't communists. You aren't revolutionary. I've frequented your bookstore, your literature and your website and have found nothing but absolute fucking failure. For 6 consecutive months last year i picked up every single copy of your paper. Not once in any of those papers did your party mention the working class, the necessity of the working class in bringing about a new society, nor any mention on how to organize the working class other than adherence to Avakianism. In fact the only time I've heard any mention of the working class that didn't involve it's historical role, was in your constitution which is clearly a lip service. Yet In one paper I recall seeing Bobby's name mentioned 43 times in a span of 4 pages.


Comrades, they are no revolutionary party, One merely needs to read their papers to realize how utterly fucked this party is. I understand the importance of leadership for a revolutionary party, but to expound that leader above the working class is no revolutionary party. In fact, I think it should be the work of communists everywhere in the United States to denounce this party at every turn. They certainly aren't giving us a better image.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

Hey revolutionary brother,

As you've noticed, you'll get a lot of very black and white opinions about the RCP around here, which is to be expected. As someone who worked around the RCP and the Revolution Club for about two years, allow me to drop my two cents.

Let's start with the positive.

In comparison with other self-titled vanguard parties, the RCP has fared much better than most others since its formation in the 70s. The RCP did, for quite some time, keep Maoism relevant in the U.S. when it would have otherwise disappeared entirely and has managed to maintain youth groups in at least SOME of its areas of operation, which is more than other parties can say.

They are the only communist party that I have seen do consistent work around police brutality. Mind you, they're accomplishing almost NOTHING, but nobody can doubt their dedication.

Avakian has some interesting ideas from time to time and he's a decent thinker, albeit one that does not understand how to cite sources other than himself. I think he's worth engaging with, I just don't recommend doing so under the watch of the P. Do it on your own, ask questions of them and others as well.

They run very nice bookstores.

The Revolution DVD was pretty good.

They have some interesting forums at their stores and bring in pretty good speakers from time to time.

And now the negative:

I'm banned from their bookstore because I work with a group that wrote a polemic against them. That's it, and I'm not exaggerating at all. I never agitated or caused a raucous at one of their events. I was refused entry into a poetry open mic because I work with Kasama Project. See more below.

There is a startling disconnect around the Party between what it says and what it does. It wants vibrant debate and discussion, but any critiques of the P that are made outside the channels the P provides are dismissed as anti-communist, counterrevolutionary, reactionary, unprincipled, ad infinitum. For examples, see 9 Letters to our Comrades (http://mikeely.wordpress.com/pamphlets/9-letters/) and Justice for Oscar Grant, A Lost Opportunity? (http://advancethestruggle.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/justice-for-oscar-grant-a-lost-opportunity/), both of which were responded to angrily (NOTE: the latter of the two received no formal response from the P but was dismissed as anti-communist by members). At the most basic level, they handle contradictions worse than any party out there other than the Sparts and maybe the IBT.

There is a MASSIVE cult around Avakian, to the point that cadre refuse to discuss what prospects we have for revolution after he dies. He is considered the "cardinal question" amongst communists, the dividing line between communism and revisionism. In my two years around the Party I saw the cult get progressively worse, though it seems to have leveled off (or better stated, reached its zenith and cannot get any more absurd). They do not acknowledge the contributions of any other contemporary communist theorists other than a couple folks within the P (who all claim to use Avakian's synthesis as their jump-off point). In fact, to my knowledge they do not acknowledge contributions of anybody outside of the traditional M-L-M-BA trajectory. I can't be sure of that though, and our illustrious comrade Redwinter can correct me if that is not the case.

They give no support whatsoever to any communist/socialist forces around the world that have actually done anything. No word of support for the Maoists in India, Nepal, or the Philippines.

They thoroughly misrepresent the truth about situations. They try and claim leadership of events and struggles when they, in fact, played only a minimal role. They run to the front of marches with gigantic ass signs that often have nothing to do with the struggle at hand.

Their line on homosexuality was deplorable, and their present excuses for it even more so.

------------

That is just the tip of the iceberg, there is a LOT more to say, both positive and negative. But like it's been said, there are numerous threads about the RCP here.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

It was also sweet to hear about at some anarchist bookfair in Cali, someone dumped water on all their shit.

Now this is, in fact, VERY unprincipled. Why do you find this to be acceptable behavior?

[RED DAVE]

My favorite Avakian quote:
Now, as Maoists, we're not supposed to blame the masses when things don't go well. But goddamnit—I want to blame the masses a little bit!http://www.bobavakian.net/articles/bringing-all.html

Forgive us oh Fearless Leader. We are not worthy! We are not worthy!

RED DAVE

[scarletghoul]

Culture of a Peachy Nation's post is the best in this thread.

I'd just like to add that Avakian's work is definately worth reading (though hes certainly not the new lenin or mao, and I don't get what the RCP means when they say he's "brought marxism to a new place") and he is a good contemporary communist theorist. You shouldn't dismiss every one of his ideas just because of the annoying party approach.
At the same time, they do kinda ask for it. That's what pisses me off about the RCP - they have some great assets and a lot of potential, but their stupid dogmatic approach totally negates all that, as CoaPN outlined above :(

Anyway yeah so a mixed approach is totally needed

edit: 1234th post

[Winter]

Culture of a Peachy Nation's post is the best in this thread.

Agreed!

I think it's arrogant that the RCP(USA) thinks that they are the only way and that they are the exclusive vanguard party for the US. The fact of the matter is that it took me a very long time to discover that they even existed. I discovered the Kasama Project before I even heard anything about the RCP(USA). That's not exactly "revolutionary" of them seeing that they claim to represent the masses.

In order to have a legitimate vanguard party, it needs to be way more mainstream. I considered joining them, but this whole "our Chairman is Bob Avakian" thing turned me way off. A revolutionary leader should only be acknowledged when he's actually done something productive.

It seems like the organizations sole purpose is to inflate Avakians ego.

Oh, and, 500th post! :thumbup:

[RED DAVE]

My question about the RCP is, always, what are they doing inside the working class? The answer seems to be little or nothing. For me, the hallmark for any revolutionary organization revolves around this. Any other kinds of movement or mass work should always take a back seat to this. Working with rape victims, fighting against police brutality, etc., are not substitutes for actual work in and with the working class as a class.

RED DAVE

[Kassad]

Does anyone else feel that when they read about Bob Avakian on his website,


Bob Avakian is the leader of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA. And he is more than that: he's an innovative and critical thinker who has taken Marxism to a new place; he's a provocative commentator on everything from basketball to religion, doo-wop music to science and he's a pit-bull fighter against oppression who's kept both his solemn sense of purpose and his irrepressible sense of humor.

they're reading about someone on an online dating website?

[RED DAVE]

Avakian's deathless prose:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/all-communists-do-t119792/index.html?p=1649373#post1649373

RED DAVE

[chegitz guevara]

I don't think it's fair to call the RCP a Maoist group any longer. After all, if Avakian is on the level of a Mao and a Lenin, then shouldn't the RCP be called an Avakianist group? And that's what it truly is. It exists for nothing other than the glorification of Chairman Bob.

There are a few cults on the revolutionary left. The RCP isn't the worst, but it's unsurprising the group has lost half its membership in just a few years.

Bob himself, far from being a good writer, isn't worth bothering with. His prose is fairly pedantic, and his writings don't display that deep a knowledge of Marxism, certainly not its dialectical aspects.

Bob is historically significant, however. He's one of the founders of American Maoism, and was one of the founders of the first Maoist group in the U.S., the Revolutionary Union (Progressive Labor was never really Maoist, just anti-revisionist, and they broke with Mao once he allied with the US against the USSR). Bob also forced the issue of party formation in the New Communist Movement. The various organizations weren't parties until the RU decided it was going to push for a party, which became the RCP. According to the RCP, Bob was the first to realize a counter-revolution had occurred with the death of Mao, and they broke with China in the late 70s.

After that, he's been a sublime mediocrity.

[Jimmie Higgins]

ANOTHER thread about general impressions regarding the RCP? Mybey the OP is sincere - maybe other similar post were sincere, but it's just plain weird that the RCP has a few thread a month that are "Hey, guys I just heard about the RCP - are they the vanguard of the US movement or the vanguariest of the US movement?" It almost makes me think that the RCP has created a spam-program that finds message boards and asks random questions in order to try and raise the profile of the RCP. Soon we'll all start getting spam e-mail: "Hi, my name is Bob, I recently came into possession of some theoretical formulations that I urgently need to get out of the country. I would be willing to give you a portion of my new synthesis if..."

This kind of general impressions about the RCP hardly ever leads to a political discussion and just turns into a totally a-political debate about weather they are a personality cult or not. Or this...
It was also sweet to hear about at some anarchist bookfair in Cali, someone dumped water on all their shit.It was a group of people... they destroyed the RCP's lit. The RCP was set up about 20 feet outside the enterence - even outside the free area where people were selling shit that had nothing to do with anarchist politics. If people wanted to oppose their presence, they should have set up their own table across from the RCP or simply ignore them as I was all too happy to do as I came in and out to set up my booth.

As much as I do not agree with he politics of the RCP - as much as I have seen their politics and tactics not be a benefit to the movements here in the bay area over the years that I've been here - as much as I would think it was a step forward if the organization disbanded and the members joined other groups - the attack on them at the anarchist book fair (I was there) was total needless sectarian bullshit that did nothing but make the RCP members there feel like oppressed missionaries for Avakian and painted all anarchists as apolitical thugs who attack the RCP while ignoring the National Anarchists who were covertly trying to recruit politically naive lifesylists and street-kids to their fascist politics.

I don't like the RCP, but this is a political difference - they are on a different road that I believe will never help the self-emancipation of the working class. But if you disagree with them, do it politically - there's plenty of their material and strange political formulations to use as ammunition.

[Uncle Rob]

My question about the RCP is, always, what are they doing inside the working class? The answer seems to be little or nothing. For me, the hallmark for any revolutionary organization revolves around this. Any other kinds of movement or mass work should always take a back seat to this. Working with rape victims, fighting against police brutality, etc., are not substitutes for actual work in and with the working class as a class.

RED DAVE


They do nothing. No where in their papers will you find any mention of the working class. Trust me, I frequent their paper just to make sure they still fail :p

[Kayser_Soso]

I would like to know what are the different perspectives on this party. I am currently reading their constitution and manifesto. Thank you very much.

Have you accepted Bob Avakian as your personal lord and savior? That's it in a nutshell.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

ANOTHER thread about general impressions regarding the RCP? Mybey the OP is sincere - maybe other similar post were sincere, but it's just plain weird that the RCP has a few thread a month that are "Hey, guys I just heard about the RCP - are they the vanguard of the US movement or the vanguariest of the US movement?" It almost makes me think that the RCP has created a spam-program that finds message boards and asks random questions in order to try and raise the profile of the RCP. Soon we'll all start getting spam e-mail: "Hi, my name is Bob, I recently came into possession of some theoretical formulations that I urgently need to get out of the country. I would be willing to give you a portion of my new synthesis if..."

This is an interesting thought. The only thing that gives me that impression though is that the OP always seems to disappear very quickly after the first post. It doesn't seem like a very good tactic though, the RCP gets trashed on this forum and it's not very fertile ground for them and in a lot of ways, I think they'd benefit more from being not mentioned at all on RevLeft than trying to "raise their profile" on it.

But lmao at the second part :laugh: