Solidariety with the people of haiti

[ComradeMan]

I'D LIKE TO CALL ON THE PEOPLE OF REVLEFT WHATEVER THEIR POSITIONS TO SHOW SOLIDARITY WITH THE PEOPLE OF HAITI AND THE VICTIMS OF THIS TERRIBLE EARTHQUAKE.

I LIVE IN A SEISMIC AREA AND IT IS NOT MUCH FUN. AS YOU KNOW ITALY HAS HAD ITS OWN EARTHQUAKE DISASTERS RECENTLY.

THE SCALE OF THE HAITI EARTHQUAKE IS TERRIBLE. WHAT MAKES IS WORSE IS THAT MANY PEOPLE MAY HAVE DIED DUE TO THE SHODDILY BUILT BUILDINGS THAT COLLAPSED, IN TURN DUE TO CORRUPTION AND POVERTY.

POVERTY KILLS IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE....


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/6977931/Haiti-earthquake-thousands-feared-dead.html

[Dean]

Hey

HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO OK A POST WITH ALL CAPS WAS IT BECAUSE U HAD A LINK IN THER LOL

I for one REJECT solidarity with them because earthquakes ONLY EXIST within a CAPITALIST PARADIGM! NO TO SOLIDARITY WITH THE VICTIMS OF NATURAL DISASTERS!

EDIT: Sorry, I meant SOLIDARIETY :laugh:

[ComradeMan]

I didn't know that you couldn't post a post all-caps because I haven't done it before!
So, the simple answer is I don't know.

Re Solidariety oops--- I confuse Italian and English words that are similar all the time! - solidarietà

LOL!!!

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Caps lock cruise control for win.

[rednordman]

Its awful news and I find it hard to look at the news at the moment. They have all my solidarity, and hope that the death toll stops soon.

[ComradeMan]

Its awful news and I find it hard to look at the news at the moment. They have all my solidarity, and hope that the death toll stops soon.


What can we do? I am willing to donate? Could this forum also help? I don't know....

[danyboy27]

cuba and venezuela could help..

[ComradeMan]

I think we should all help--- like in the Tsunami.

[danyboy27]

I think we should all help--- like in the Tsunami.

if there is a place where i could drop a fews buck that could help, count me in.

otherwise i got too much stuff going on right now.
for my canadian friends.
https://www.paypaq.com/redcross/en/corporation/index.php?login=haiti&password=support

[rednordman]

cuba and venezuela could help..You do actually have a point there. But to be fair, when it came to the hurricane that hit cuba last year, not many countries showed any interest in helping them. I would be shocked if Venezuela doenst help. I think Cuba would if it didnt have a serious embargo placed upon it.

[danyboy27]

You do actually have a point there. But to be fair, when it came to the hurricane that hit cuba last year, not many countries showed any interest in helping them. I would be shocked if Venezuela doenst help. I think Cuba would if it didnt have a serious embargo placed upon it.

i just gave 5 bucks to the canadian red cross.

[rednordman]

What can we do? I am willing to donate? Could this forum also help? I don't know....You have a good heart and I totally admire you for that. For some reason, this has been a lot harder to take than most of the other nasty occurances within this world at the moment. Most other events are bad, but at least I could face up to it. This has actually made me feel physically sick. I dont know why though.

Perhaps its the graphic pictures of the suffering, showing the first hand reality of natural disaster. Or mabey its just looking at the earth and civilisation reaching the end of its peril. Some justice hey?

[rednordman]

i just gave 5 bucks to the canadian red cross.Good on you!

[RedAnarchist]

cuba and venezuela could help..

Venezuela are doing their bit -

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/85537
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5j2O_91udpr7ShSM_eB-V0FaknixA

[danyboy27]

Good on you!

nono, good on them.

[ComradeMan]

Found a way to donate... will do tomorrow!!!

[Tiktaalik]

Solidarity for ever!

That being said, when Katrina happened, Red Cross did not show any interest to the flooded poor areas and was basically concentrated in uptown NOLA; it was community groups like Common Ground that provided effective relief to working-class communities. Just an FYI to those giving money to Red Cross.

[ComradeMan]

What does FYI mean? Non ho capito!:D

[RedAnarchist]

What does FYI mean? Non ho capito!:D

FYI - For Your Information.

[ComradeMan]

Thanks!!!

[danyboy27]

The red cross always put way more ressources toward third world countries beccause it make sense, beccause this is where you expect the problem to happen.

they didnt really expected america, a rich industrialised country to suck that much at helping its own citizens. You got a handful of well paid organisation on the state like FEMA that where supposed to give support and relief to katrina victims, and they all sucked at best.

Necessarly you wont make special budget and plan of operation in a coutry that you know put its money on huuge organisation like FEMA in order to provide food, shelter and rescue planning to the citizen of the usa.

that could explain why they lacked efficiency back then.

[Tiktaalik]

Right, Red Cross wasn't being classist, it just didn't have that many resources, that's why it delivered tons of aid to up-town NOLA.

[danyboy27]

Right, Red Cross wasn't being classist, it just didn't have that many resources, that's why it delivered tons of aid to up-town NOLA.

so you are saying that the red cross have a bias toward the rich?

[pastradamus]

cuba and venezuela could help..

As indeed they have. On euronews earlier they reported that Cuba sent over Doctors and medical assistance to the Island.

[ComradeMan]

I don't think we should criticise any of the relief agencies at work in this instance- as long as aid reaches the people.

[Communist]

Noting the concerns in this thread...for those who wish to help, it has been suggested by the mostly Haitian-origin Steelworkers Local 8751 (http://www.bostonschoolbusunion.org/) (School Bus Drivers) to donate directly to the Haitian party Fanmi Lavalas (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.fanmilavalas.net/faire_un_don.htm). Other options below.


===============================

Haiti Relief (http://www.ifconews.org/node/723)

Dear friend,
In response to the devastating earthquake in Haiti, IFCO/Pastors for Peace (http://www.ifconews.org/) is supporting Haitian Women for Haitian Refugees (HWHR (http://www.peacewomen.org/contacts/americas/haiti/hai_index.html)), Lakou New York, and Movement of Dominican Haitian Women (MUDHA (http://www.kiskeya-alternative.org/mudha/)) in rapidly delivering humanitarian aid to the people of Haiti.

IFCO encourages people to generously give money and supplies at this time of grave human crisis. All of the above organizations have a powerful record of work in Haiti. IFCO is proud to serve as fiscal sponsor for each of these projects and can attest to their excellent work. HWHR travels frequently to Haiti, has been involved in training community health workers in coordination with the Cuban doctors and LAM graduates who serve the communities in greatest need. We can be assured that all donations will directly reach those most affected.

Endorsed (http://thehaitianblogger.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-earthquake-food-aid-donations.html) by Haitian Lawyers Leadership Network (http://www.margueritelaurent.com/law/haitianlawyers.html).

See below for more information about what supplies are needed, and drop-off location in New York City.


To make a financial contribution to the urgent efforts, please send a tax-deductible donation to:

IFCO/Haiti Relief
418 West 145th Street, New York NY 10031

You may also make a credit card donation designated for Haiti Relief on this site or by calling IFCO at 212-926-5757


**********************

Earthquake Relief for Haiti please join our response to the recent earthquake in Haiti.

Haitian Women for Haitian Refugees, Lakou New York, and MUDHA Movement of Dominican Haitian Women are organizing an immediate delivery of first aid relief. MUDHA is traveling to the Dominican/Haitian border, looking at how to reach affected areas.

WE ARE ACCEPTING THE FOLLOWING DONATIONS:

FIRST AID SUPPLIES:
- Ace bandages, gauze pads, bandage & tape
- Water purification tablets & Rehydration salts
- antibiotic and antifungal (Mycology) creams
- anti-allergy medication (i.e. Benadryl)
- anti-parasite medication
- Tylenol; children's Tylenol
- cold and cough medicine
- diarrhea medication
- eye drops
- insect repellent
- hydrogen peroxide
- skin disinfectant spray

PERSONAL HYGIENE GOODS:
- Toothpaste and tooth brushes
- soap and deodorant
- sanitary napkins
- brand new under wear - adult (small & med.) and children sizes

DRY FOODS & OTHER ITEMS:
- Nutritional bars, fruit & nut bars, cereal bars (NO CANNED FOODS PLEASE)
- Tea Light candles & quality batteries (AA & D)


EVENING DROP-OFF HOURS ARE MON. & WED. 6:30-8:30 P.M.

HAITIAN WOMEN FOR HAITIAN REFUGEES

335 Maple Street, 2nd Floor, Brooklyn, NY (http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=335+Maple+Street,+2nd+Floor,+Brooklyn,+NY&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=335+Maple+St,+Brooklyn,+NY+11225&gl=us&ei=2tZQS9zcHIullAeHr7CpCg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA) (this is not a mailing address) (718) 735-4660

Please use rear entrance on Lincoln Road between Nostrand and New York Avenue. Enter through St. Francis Church parking lot

DAYTIME DROP-OFF HOURS ARE MON. - FRI. 11:00-4:00 P.M.

@ FLANBWAYAN HAITIAN LITERACY PROJECT (http://www.flanbwayan.org/)
(718) 774-3037 208 Parkside, 2nd floor, Brooklyn, NY 11226 (http://www.flanbwayan.org/flanbwayan_maps.html)

======================================



http://www.rdmag.com/uploadedImages/RD/News/2010/01/Haiti2.jpg?n=3378 (http://www.rdmag.com/News/2010/01/Environment-Haiti-quake-devastation-intensified-by-location/)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47098000/jpg/_47098762_jex_570388_de14-1.jpg (http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/americas/Full-Picture-of-Haiti-Devastation-Emerges-as-International-Aid-is-Mobilized-81537082.html)

Help if you can.

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======== (http://www.workers.org/2010/us/haiti_solidarity_0128/)==========
========= (http://wwppitt.weebly.com/)====
======= (http://www.workers.org/2010/us/fist_0128/)===
= (http://www.escambray.cu/Eng/Special/fidelhaiti1001151126)======
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[The Red Next Door]

cuba and venezuela could help..
they already had.

[danyboy27]

i dont think its safe to dirrectly donnate stuff to the haitian governement or to any other organisation than the red cross.

[ComradeMan]

i dont think its safe to dirrectly donnate stuff to the haitian governement or to any other organisation than the red cross.


I would be suspicious of donating to any government, I often have doubts whether money actually gets to the people in need that way. Nevertheless there are a lot of organisations that do provide sincere aid and relief work. In the UK there is OXFAM in Italy they set up SMS services to donate via credit, or through the bank and there are quite of lot of Catholic relief work agencies too.

[ComradeMan]

I just did a calculation, if every registered user at RevLeft donated minimum $5 that would be approximately minimum $65,000 US.

A hell of a lot of water tanks could be bought with that money...

Come on guys!!!

[Robert]

The U.S. has control of the port and our soldiers are going in. Just protecting the bourgeoisie?

Answer: No.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/americas/Tensions-Mount-in-Haiti-as-Situation-Grows-Desperate-81876477.html

[danyboy27]

The U.S. has control of the port and our soldiers are going in. Just protecting the bourgeoisie?

Answer: No.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/americas/Tensions-Mount-in-Haiti-as-Situation-Grows-Desperate-81876477.html


i read that, and i have been thinking about it ever since.
how come so much governement are helping if they dont get nothing at all in return?

i guess the pressure of their own people is strong enough to force them to do such things even tho it will bring nothing at the end.

that could explain why china didnt send no help at all so far.

[ComradeMan]

Well, regardless of whoever is involved I just hope that all the parties involved can do their best to alleviate the suffering of those people. I was watching the images on the BBC World news... they made me physically sick, those communal fosses full of corpses.... that sickness turns to anger when I think that the real cause of this all is poverty and that the earthquake was just a catalyst.

[Richard Nixon]

Let us pray for the victims of the earthquake and do what we can to help. Let us put aside our political differences for the moment.

[Robert]

i read that, and i have been thinking about it ever since.
how come so much government are helping if they don't get nothing at all in return?

i guess the pressure of their own people is strong enough to force them to do such things even tho it will bring nothing at the end.

that could explain why china didnt send no help at all so far.

The military in this case is an instrument of collective will, determined to do something, anything, to confront a catastrophe of Biblical proportions.

You could probably look in the U.S. constitution and find some basis to complain that this help is extra-judicial, but no one cares: not Clinton, not Obama, not Bush. Everyone agrees here: Just get it done.

Is it true that China did nothing? I think they had some guys there on the ground before the earthquake, probably looking for oil offshore. No joke.
And they for sure have a team (http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90776/90883/6870766.html) looking for their own co-nationals.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The U.S. has control of the port and our soldiers are going in. Just protecting the bourgeoisie?

Answer: No.

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/americas/Tensions-Mount-in-Haiti-as-Situation-Grows-Desperate-81876477.html
This story is no longer available according to Voice of America, the CIA's news-division. Care to give us the gist?

In the meantime, I'd advise giving to grassroots Haitian aid organizations if possible. There are many of them in the US and I've donnated to one in S.F.


The U.S. has control of the port and our soldiers are going in. Just protecting the bourgeoisie?

Just protecting the political status quo while people starve. Sending 9,000 troops, constant fly-overs by the navy and air force... but the couple of hundred doctors the US is sending are stuck in an airport somewhere twiddling their thumbs.

The US government doesn't care about starving Hatiaians - earthquake or not. Read some history about Haiti and US involvement there. Given the US history with Haiti, hoping that the US will sincerely help the situation is like drowning in a river and hoping that the crocodile that just rolled off the bank is coming into the water to prop you up and help you to the shore.

This country has already had food riots since the economic collapse and the food price increases. People literally eat biscuits partially made from mud. Bread riots, "cake" filled with undigestable material, lots of desperate and oppressed people yelling things in French... isn't this how the French Revolution started? The US is sending 9,000 troops, so they are probably thinking the same thing.

[ComradeMan]

Normally I would be suspicious- but I think in events of apocalyptic proportions like this, as with the Tsunami, that all help is help and the time for criticism and sniping is not now.

My concerns are for the future too. How the hell will the poorest country in the Americas be able to get back on its feet? Haiti was already living on the edge before.... Once the aid missions and humanitarian stuff begin to slow down, what about the rebuilding etc. People in Abruzzo in Italy are still living in camps although housing has been completed already for some, but there we are talking tens of thousands, here we are talking millions!!!

[Tyrlop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtGPmsqLGko

[ComradeMan]

This is for the best. The earthquake is making room for better countries to improve themselves in.


Could you explain please? I don't catch your drift..... :)

[danyboy27]

This story is no longer available according to Voice of America, the CIA's news-division. Care to give us the gist?

In the meantime, I'd advise giving to grassroots Haitian aid organizations if possible. There are many of them in the US and I've donnated to one in S.F.
.

i really wouldnt trust those organisations at all for the fallowing reason:

1.you really dont know who you dealing with. there is an awful lot of scammer and people who will try to take advantage of your kindness of heart.

2.those organisations dosnt have the logistics to enter in the country and distribute the ressources efficiently. Right now you would need to go there, the port is half destroyed, the airport dosnt work properly, criminal running wild, and ton of starving and desesperate people are running around.
you would need like a big armed escort to actually be able to go there and distribute the stuff without being looted or killed in the process.

just give to the red cross. they know what they are doing.




The US government doesn't care about starving Hatiaians - earthquake or not. Read some history about Haiti and US involvement there. Given the US history with Haiti, hoping that the US will sincerely help the situation is like drowning in a river and hoping that the crocodile that just rolled off the bank is coming into the water to prop you up and help you to the shore.

This country has already had food riots since the economic collapse and the food price increases. People literally eat biscuits partially made from mud. Bread riots, "cake" filled with undigestable material, lots of desperate and oppressed people yelling things in French... isn't this how the French Revolution started? The US is sending 9,000 troops, so they are probably thinking the same thing.
well, the american governement dosnt really care, but if they want to get elected again they have to do somethng.
there is no precious natural ressources in haiti. i fail to see what would be thge point to invest that much money in a scheme that would give back nothing in return.

sometimes countries just want to improve their reputations, and for that they have to do good things.

[eyedrop]

i really wouldnt trust those organisations at all for the fallowing reason:

1.you really dont know who you dealing with. there is an awful lot of scammer and people who will try to take advantage of your kindness of heart. Preferably you would give to some grassroots organisation where you know someone who is involved with so they can vouch for it being a decent organisation.


2.those organisations dosnt have the logistics to enter in the country and distribute the ressources efficiently. Right now you would need to go there, the port is half destroyed, the airport dosnt work properly, criminal running wild, and ton of starving and desesperate people are running around.
you would need like a big armed escort to actually be able to go there and distribute the stuff without being looted or killed in the process.
There are plenty of grass roots organisations that have already been established in Haiti for several years, that should help with the logistics and with security as the population views the organisation as a positive thing and not as crooks.

[danyboy27]

Preferably you would give to some grassroots organisation where you know someone who is involved with so they can vouch for it being a decent organisation.

There are plenty of grass roots organisations that have already been established in Haiti for several years, that should help with the logistics and with security as the population views the organisation as a positive thing and not as crooks.

the problem is, this is not beccause i know a person x in a grassroot organisation that there is no corruption or scamming.

i am not familiar with any reliable grassroot organisation in my province, there is a black organisation that is collecting money for them but they say they gonna give the money to the red cross anyway.

what the point of giving money to someone so he can give it to the red cross when you can do it yourselve?

[ComradeMan]

Oh for fucks sakes everyone.

Other than Internet fraudsters.... sick bastards.... instead of bickering about whom to give money how about organising and giving it, whether it's the Red Cross, Oxfam, UNICEF or your local chuch or synagogue or mosque whoever.......

[Bud Struggle]

Here are the best places to donate for Haiti:

http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=content.view&cpid=1004

[Robert]

I went here (http://www.clintonbushhaitifund.org/). I don't think Bush or Clinton will pocket the money.

[Phalanx]

Let's not politicize this extreme tragedy. Up to 200,000 people may be dead, it's a human tragedy and we should treat it as such.

[brigadista]

You do actually have a point there. But to be fair, when it came to the hurricane that hit cuba last year, not many countries showed any interest in helping them. I would be shocked if Venezuela doenst help. I think Cuba would if it didnt have a serious embargo placed upon it.

cubans are there
venezualans some of the first in

http://links.org.au/node/1469

[brigadista]

Let's not politicize this extreme tragedy. Up to 200,000 people may be dead, it's a human tragedy and we should treat it as such.


http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2010/01/us-security-companies-offer-services-haiti

disasters like this terrible tragedy are the stuff that capitalists thrive on...

[Bud Struggle]

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2010/01/us-security-companies-offer-services-haiti

disasters like this terrible tragedy are the stuff that capitalists thrive on...

A couple of people. :rolleyes: There are some looters that are making out well, too.

[brigadista]

dont beleive the hype same racist shit that the media was peddling after katrina - a hungry mob is an angry mob...

[Bud Struggle]

dont beleive the hype same racist shit that the media was peddling after katrina - a hungry mob is an angry mob...

Hey Comrade--if my family was starving I'd steal anything to feed them. Economic theory is alright for well fed bellies--but a parent has to feed his/her children.

[Phalanx]

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2010/01/us-security-companies-offer-services-haiti

disasters like this terrible tragedy are the stuff that capitalists thrive on...

I don't care if people say the US is doing this "just to boost its public image". That may be so, but if the US didn't help, the world would be asking why the hell US troops aren't on the ground delivering supplies. Like I said, this is a terrible tragedy, don't use it to further any political aims.

[brigadista]

Hey Comrade--if my family was starving I'd steal anything to feed them. Economic theory is alright for well fed bellies--but a parent has to feed his/her children.


you are in agreement with me then

[Bud Struggle]

you are in agreement with me then

Sure. Politics is nice--but me feeding my family, or you feeding your family, or others feeding their family--comes first.

[Jimmie Higgins]

well, the american governement dosnt really care, but if they want to get elected again they have to do somethng.Yes, I agree, but only if people in the US make a stink and let the government know we are watching what they do there and will hold them accountable. If we give them the benifit of the doubt and trust that they are there to sincerely help people, then people will not be helped. If we demand that relief be given without strings or a de-regulation/neo-liberal plan attached, then their might be the kind of help that's needed.


there is no precious natural ressources in haiti. i fail to see what would be thge point to invest that much money in a scheme that would give back nothing in return.One is just keeping control of the backyard, the US has used Haiti for this in the Caribbean for 100 years now (William Jennings Bryant said something to the effect that the US needs to control Haiti because it was crazy for "n*****s to be speaking in French").

Part of the problem with the economy there is that the US policies put in place by the Duvaliers destroyed native agriculture because Haiti began importing subsided US staple crops (this lead to massive crowding in the urban areas of people from poor rural areas looking for jobs). The crisis in Haiti brought on by the destruction of agriculture then led to neo-liberal "relif" plans in the 90s under Clinton that were basically "de-regulation" plans and the creation of "free-trade" zones. This means that jobs were created in corporate-controlled zones outside national laws that gave Haitians jobs in sweatshops for US-based companies. The other "relief" forced on the country was the sell-off of natural resources and this is why, famously, people flying over the island can see the border with the Dominican Republic because Haiti has de-forested it's portion of the island.

Recently Bill Clinton has been lobbying to bring more sweatshops to Haiti and has been pushing for the development of a Tourism industry. you may have read that while the US was saying that there were not enough ports to bring in relief, cruse ships have still been docking there.

So I defiantly don't think it's a stretch to say that the US has economic interests in the country.

All of these neo-liberal plans have had the effect of making the country less economically self-sufficient... selling off natural resources, destruction of native agriculture, the possibility of a tourism economy. What Haiti really needs (from a Haitian capitalist perspective) is capital investment to build up native industry to replace agriculture, not low-wage jobs from US or French or Brazilian tour-companies or logging companies.

[Phalanx]

Bringing in sweatshops would be a remarkable improvement on the lives of most Haitians. It's a complete failed state, no one has jobs and the infrastructure (before the earthquake) was beyond repair. The realistic alternative to sweatshops in the country would be subsistence farming, and due to the decreasing fertility in the soil, that sort of living is simply out of the question for nine million people.


All of these neo-liberal plans have had the effect of making the country less economically self-sufficient... selling off natural resources, destruction of native agriculture, the possibility of a tourism economy. What Haiti really needs (from a Haitian capitalist perspective) is capital investment to build up native industry to replace agriculture, not low-wage jobs from US or French or Brazilian tour-companies or logging companies.

Honestly, there's no natural resources to speak of, and the destruction of native agriculture would have a very minimal effect on the payroll of US capitalists. You've got to get over this attitude, it's immature and simply laughable in the world outside your computer.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Honestly, there's no natural resources to speak of, and the destruction of native agriculture would have a very minimal effect on the payroll of US capitalists.So the UN made Bill Clinton a special envoy and he's trying to build tourism and sweatshops there for shits and giggles? 100 years of US economic and political interventions in Haiti... but they don't have any interests in the country. The US has been directly involved in shaping the economy of the country... but it has no interest there. I agree that it isn't simply and crudely economic, but that is a major part.

Yes, 100 years of US economic and political interventions in Haiti... but now they'll get it right:rolleyes:. Do you also find yourself touching the stove repeatedly, each time wondering why the skin on your hands hurts?


You've got to get over this attitude, it's immature and simply laughable in the world outside your computer.Thanks buba, I'll be sure to take that advice from some idiot on the computer over what Haitian activists have said and written about.

What's laughable is thinking that an economy based on sweatshops where wages come into the country but the product of the labor and the profits from it go out to other countries. That's not good for Haitian capitalists and it's not good for the workers who are employed in zones where local laws don't apply and therefore there is no possible way for the employees to defend themselves through strikes or even the legal system.

[Phalanx]

So the alternative, a country free from US neocolonialism but wracked by poverty, unemployment, crime and a nonexistent infrastructure is better?

[Bud Struggle]

Bringing in sweatshops would be a remarkable improvement on the lives of most Haitians. It's a complete failed state, no one has jobs and the infrastructure (before the earthquake) was beyond repair. The realistic alternative to sweatshops in the country would be subsistence farming, and due to the decreasing fertility in the soil, that sort of living is simply out of the question for nine million people.


Interesting enough Baby Doc brought in over 150,000 manufacturing jobs to Port au Prince--they almost all left under Aristide.

[danyboy27]

Interesting enough Baby Doc brought in over 150,000 manufacturing jobs to Port au Prince--they almost all left under Aristide.

Dictatorship can bring comfort to the people, but the price to pay is always the same: freedom.

[Jimmie Higgins]

So the alternative, a country free from US neocolonialism but wracked by poverty, unemployment, crime and a nonexistent infrastructure is better?As an alternative to what... a country subject to US imperialism and wracked by poverty, unemployment, crime, and a nonexistent infrastructure? That has been the case since the 1970s and probably for all of the 100 years that Haiti has been in the US's "sphere of influence".

As far as what I would like to see... ideally the best thing that could happen in regards to US/Haiti would be for American citizens to protest and demand that the US government give financial aid without strings, cancel debts and for the US and France to give some reparations.

I watched part of the telethon the other night and I thought how crazy it is that the richest economy and biggest military power on earth has its citizens "pass the contribution plate" to raise relief funds. Somehow I think the US government could do better than my $50 donation. How nice would it be if the US gave even a fraction of the $700 billion TARP money to Haiti while the banks had to have George Clooney beg for relief money to save them from their "disaster".

[Phalanx]

Realistically though, why would Americans protest to give Haitians "aid without strings"? It's good you view the world so idealistically, but most people just don't think that way. Haitians got the short end of the stick, to be sure, and I sure as hell wouldn't like to be in their situation, but that's life.

[Phalanx]

Dictatorship can bring comfort to the people, but the price to pay is always the same: freedom.

That's merely a luxury. I'm sure the one billion hungry people of the world would gladly trade freedom for three square meals a day.

[danyboy27]

That's merely a luxury. I'm sure the one billion hungry people of the world would gladly trade freedom for three square meals a day.

liberty shoulndt be traded for housing and food, beccause liberty is a fundamental right every human being should have. The right to be human and not slaves.

and i am gonna quote benjamin franklin on this one:

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security

[Jimmie Higgins]

Realistically though, why would Americans protest to give Haitians "aid without strings"?American people and regular people in other countries have given generously - and without strings. If we made demands on our governmnet and exercised mass pressure, they would have to.


It's good you view the world so idealistically, but most people just don't think that way.Like I said I think most people in the US would want the governmnet to spend a little money like this rather than on TARP or military surges.


Haitians got the short end of the stick, to be sure, and I sure as hell wouldn't like to be in their situation, but that's life.Haitians just somehow woke up one day on the island from Africa? The Haitian governmnet was just magically compelled to de-regulate even though it was against the wishes of the population? There is nothing haphazard about why Haiti is the way it is. And you think I'm the idealistic one?

[gorillafuck]

liberty shoulndt be traded for housing and food, beccause liberty is a fundamental right every human being should have. The right to be human and not slaves.
I'd trade a fair amount of liberty for housing and food if I had neither housing nor food.

[danyboy27]

I'd trade a fair amount of liberty for housing and food if I had neither housing nor food.

and that how dictatorship enslave people.

if i would be without roof or food, i would try to get my shit together and get close to some people in order to improve my living rather than giving my fredom away.

[Bud Struggle]

if i would be without roof or food, i would try to get my shit together and get close to some people in order to improve my living rather than giving my fredom away.


That OI talk. A good Communist would think of the Five Tear Plan of his Soviet first. :D

[Robert]

I'd trade a fair amount of liberty for housing and food if I had neither housing nor food.

I thought the commie position was that wage slaves have already made that trade?

[gorillafuck]

and that how dictatorship enslave people.

if i would be without roof or food, i would try to get my shit together and get close to some people in order to improve my living rather than giving my fredom away.
That's quite a good point about that being how dictatorships enslave people, actually. Honestly I can't say I know what I would do.

[Che a chara]

The US's problem in coutries like Haiti is that it gives them fish instead of teaching them how to fish.

Also the corrupt nature at the top of the haitian government does absolutely no favours and as we can see the US sending in their army on the pretence of safety and help, but actually are sending them in to make sure their is no revolution from the people.

[Ele'ill]

Let's form a group here from revleft to go to Haiti.




BudStruggle can fund it.

[gorillafuck]

The US's problem in coutries like Haiti is that it gives them fish instead of teaching them how to fish.
And when it tries to teach itself how to fish they take away the rod because the IMF says it's a defective rod.

[Klashnekov]

Haiti needs Doctors, not Soldiers