Thoughts on Goth?

[Monkey Riding Dragon]

Never really been one myself, but I've unsurprisingly known a number of people who were into the whole goth thing. I was just wondering if anyone here had any opinions of goth?

[#FF0000]

Think I'll move this to chitchat.

[Sasha]

goths = dead hippies

[Revy]

O.G. (Original Goth)

http://i41.tinypic.com/1z5j69h.jpg

[NecroCommie]

I consider myself as a weird crossbreed of goth and metalhead. Obviously I like it, at least for certain parts. Quite a broad topic for easy conversation.

[ZeroNowhere]

Shit music, but they did kill an emperor.

[Das war einmal]

I really like the music: Combichrist, Eisbrecher, KMFDM, Ruoska, Turmion Katilot. I want to find even more

[NecroCommie]

Turmion kätilöt is awesome live. Seen them twice, and on both cases the moshpits were divine. :cool: Hardly gothic music though. Liked in the gothic scene? Yes. Gothic music? I'd say no.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGEuB0L7vw

[Das war einmal]

Turmion kätilöt is awesome live. Seen them twice, and on both cases the moshpits were divine. :cool: Hardly gothic music though. Liked in the gothic scene? Yes. Gothic music? I'd say no.
eaGEuB0L7vw


Really? I thought industrial-rock was an integral part of the gothic scene

[NecroCommie]

Scene perhaps, but I have always understood that gothic music is specifically atmospheric and/or slow and that kind of stuff. Like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMihBYEVBec
I can be wrong though. But this does illustrate how vague are the lines between the darker subcultures.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Dunno any Goths. Anyway, isnt that more of an eastern european thing?
Though i can imagine some stayed behind in other places after the whole plunder the Roman Empire thing.

[Monkey Riding Dragon]

Strikes me as basically a middle class culture motivated mostly by individualism. (I have yet to meet a single African American goth for example.) But I could of course be wrong.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Strikes me as basically a middle class culture motivated mostly by individualism. (I have yet to meet a single African American goth for example.) But I could of course be wrong.
That doesn't automatically make it middle-class. The skinhead subculture is very predominantly white but working-class. I agree though it is a middle-class subculture, just not on the basis of colour of skin.

[Rusty Shackleford]

would Ajattara fit into the goth scene?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7BaqGxDAm4&feature=related

[NecroCommie]

That doesn't automatically make it middle-class. The skinhead subculture is very predominantly white but working-class. I agree though it is a middle-class subculture, just not on the basis of colour of skin.
All the goths I know live in tiny flats with just the most essential of furniture. Some grew up in middle class families, but not all, and none are middle class now. This is my experience. Goths and metalheads being associated with middle class has it's roots on mainstream media, which portrays both subcultures simply as groups of rebellious teens... which is stupid and infuriating.

And then there is the whole middle class thingy. What the fuck is it that otherwise so considerate leftists are ready to stereotype based on the fucking income? High income alone does not make one an asshole.

[Comrade Anarchist]

everyone who reads twilight is a fucking goth now. It is nothing more than a way to differentiate oneself from the norm and to feel belonging a social group.

[Das war einmal]

I would like to dress up as a cybergoth for a industrial party or perhaps summer darkness that would be cool for once. Although goth clothing can be a bit expensive.

[brigadista]

this is goth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriBc6NjUhg

[Bilan]

God they have some subjects which bring out the most vile cringe I can muster. "Lucifer is rising"? Fuck off.

[Plagueround]

Strikes me as basically a middle class culture motivated mostly by individualism. (I have yet to meet a single African American goth for example.) But I could of course be wrong.

I used to dress somewhat goth and knew people of all races and class that did as well, in fact most of the ones around here were usually from poor white or Mexican families. You could often tell which ones were more affluent though, because the "high end" clothing is not cheap.

[Manifesto]

The only thing Goth I like is Gothic architecture.

[ls]

Yeah, like other people have said it's a bit unfair to call goths 'middle-class', it is just the media that paints it out that way.

Anyway, the most hilarious goth music to me is Naglfar, it's like the kind of music you'd get in a modern remake of young frankenstein. :laugh:

[The Red Next Door]

They are cool, i have a couple of friends who are goth.

[NecroCommie]

You could often tell which ones were more affluent though, because the "high end" clothing is not cheap.
All it takes is a little imagination and a few flea-markets.
Like, a red scarf often worn by women can be turned into a baroque sash. Your mothers old night clothes might resemble victorian clothing if it has lace in it. ;) Things like that.

But yeah, I know what you mean. If you just buy everything from shops especially targeted at you, thigs are about to cost alot.

[The Feral Underclass]

I support the Russian states ban on Goths.

[Ravachol]

I really like the music: Combichrist, Eisbrecher, KMFDM, Ruoska, Turmion Katilot. I want to find even more

Combichrist is awesome live. It isn't goth though, it's industrial/EBM.
If you like Combichrist check out Grendel,Hocico,Noisuf-X and Suicide Commando


Strikes me as basically a middle class culture motivated mostly by individualism. (I have yet to meet a single African American goth for example.) But I could of course be wrong.

I dislike the usage of the term 'middle-class' in revolutionary circles.
It blurs class lines in favor of income-based liberal social analysis.
What matters is control over the means of production and using terms like 'middle class' only serve to blur class distinctions. There is no such thing as the 'middle class'. It's a bastardized version of 'petit-bourgoisie' that is used against more well-off workers just as easily as against the actual petit bourgoisie.

[Panda Tse Tung]

All the goths I know live in tiny flats with just the most essential of furniture. Some grew up in middle class families, but not all, and none are middle class now. This is my experience. Goths and metalheads being associated with middle class has it's roots on mainstream media, which portrays both subcultures simply as groups of rebellious teens... which is stupid and infuriating.

It's an individualist scene and in this sense petit-bourgeouisie (if one prefers that term over 'middle-class').

[Ravachol]

It's an individualist scene and in this sense petit-bourgeouisie (if one prefers that term over 'middle-class').

That, of course, assumes individualism is a homogenic ideology and one cannot be a collectivist whilst having individualist tendencies ;)

Also, I'm carefull with slinging class-based terms around at mentalities. While the strain of individualism you are most likely referring to is indeed rooted in bourgoisie sentiment, I don't think referring to workers sharing such a mindset as 'petit-bourgoise' makes any sense. They're still workers in economic and social terms.

[Panda Tse Tung]

Also, I'm carefull with slinging class-based terms around at mentalities. While the strain of individualism you are most likely referring to is indeed rooted in bourgoisie sentiment, I don't think referring to workers sharing such a mindset as 'petit-bourgoise' makes any sense. They're still workers in economic and social terms.In economic and social terms i agree, but workers can have petit-bourgeouisie consciousness (though this usually stems from their background which is a completely different story and not really relevant to the point). But objectively taking the Goth-scene in itself (and not the individuals adhering to it) it's petit-bourgeouisie.http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/smilies/wink.gif

[which doctor]

My freshman year of high school the goths used to always congregate under the main staircase. It was always a huge group, I've never seen a larger group of goths in my life. Anyways, they'd be their weird selves and I walked as quickly as possible whenever I had to walk through them (which was everyday). Later that year, the administration decided to pull off some lulz so they installed a big flourescent light underneath the stairs, and they dispersed.

[Nwoye]

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg221/kenny-southpark/SouthParkGothKids.jpg

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Never really been one myself, but I've unsurprisingly known a number of people who were into the whole goth thing. I was just wondering if anyone here had any opinions of goth?

Very nice people with the style of a mentally stunted twelve year old from Cornwall .

[Das war einmal]

I support the Russian states ban on Goths.


Ha, I knew I am more pro-personal freedom then some anarchists

[Comrade B]

Some of the music is good, the branches of post punk similar/branched off from it are pretty sweet, but the scene is totally dead, has been for some years now

[Invincible Summer]

Cyberpunk/cybergoth is pretty cool... love industrial and EBM stuff

[Tyrlop]

goth isnt that the neoliberal wave of punk?

[NecroCommie]

Considering that I am a marxist, I'd say not.

[Das war einmal]

Combichrist is awesome live. It isn't goth though, it's industrial/EBM.
If you like Combichrist check out Grendel,Hocico,Noisuf-X and Suicide Commando






Thanks for the tips. I just downloaded a map of industrial music including Excessive Force, Front Line Assembly, Celldweller, Prong and more.

I consider it 'Goth Music' because it is a vital part of the cybergoth scene (in fact, if I'm correct it is 'the' music of the cybergoth scene)

[Mindtoaster]

Lame as fuck, shit spin-off of punk

[Kléber]

An interesting author but all he was good for was funny quips. There are some smudges in his legal career and don't forget that he took up arms against Revolutionary France in 1792.

[NecroCommie]

?

[Angry Young Man]

The only thing Goth I like is Gothic architecture.

http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~jburrows/york%20minster.jpg

Happy Birthday

[FreeFocus]

I find it pretty silly, I'm not a fan of "goth" music (metal, screamo, etc), but to each his own..

[Tyrlop]

goths sidestream popkulture commercialism degenerated punk pseudo fascist post modern anti seamen

[Angry Young Man]

Why is goth being conflated with fascism. I just associate it with sulky music and eyeliner.

And you can't naysay this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PZcgi4c5XQ

[Kléber]

? Oh i thought you were all talking about the G Man.

http://beautyandart.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/goethe_stieler_1828.jpg