The organizing landscape in Iran

[MarxSchmarx]

Recently came across a really engaging interview on the state of labor union organizing in Iran:
http://archive.kpfk.org/parchive/m3u.php?mp3fil=25051
(interview starts @ around 31:00)

Unlike the protests in Tehran that have a heavy student/middle class component, the Iranian state seems to like playing cat and mouse with the unions, but one wonders if unions are a viable alternative to many of the banned political parties. It also highlights how working class resistance to the regime is playing out outside of what we read in the media outside Iran.

[Patchd]

Unlike the protests in Tehran that have a heavy student/middle class component, the Iranian state seems to like playing cat and mouse with the unions, but one wonders if unions are a viable alternative to many of the banned political parties. It also highlights how working class resistance to the regime is playing out outside of what we read in the media outside Iran.
Workers in Iran have had to take to organising outside of unions also, workers' struggle in Iran hasn't been neglected on this site, simply a lot of MLers choose to deny it's existence in Iran so as to prop up their own arguments regarding the situation, but the protests have also been running in line with worker struggles there in the factories, oil fields and public services. In addition, where's your proof that the protests in Tehran are largely middle class/student composed?

[which doctor]

Here's another interview a guy I know did with an Iranian trade unionist who's traveling across the US making contacts with political organizations.

http://platypus1917.org/2010/01/08/against-the-status-quo-an-interview-with-iranian-trade-unionist-homayoun-pourzad/

[Die Neue Zeit]

In addition, where's your proof that the protests in Tehran are largely middle class/student composed?

Because workers in bigger countries don't have the time or money to travel all the way to capitals to join a protest. If there's a workers protest regarding political conditions, it's more likely to be held in other cities more distant from the capitals.

[Devrim]

In addition, where's your proof that the protests in Tehran are largely middle class/student composed?

I'm not sure about the composition of the demonstrations in Tehran either. Jacob's line has to be one of the most absurd excuses for something though:


Because workers don't have the time or money to travel all the way to capitals of bigger countries to join a protest. If there's a workers protest regarding political conditions, it's more likely to be held in other cities more distant from the capitals.

Tehran is a city of nearly 8 million people, Karaj, which is now on the Tehran metro and fast becoming a suburb, though it used to be a separate city, has a population of about one and a half million. In total Tehran province has a population of over twelve million people, which gives it a higher population than Greece.

Also, those who have been to Tehran will know, but for those who haven't it has a very working class character. Although it has only 11% of the countries population, it has just under 50% of its industry and about a third of its public employees.

The composition of the demonstrations is a different question, but certainly there are enough workers locally.

Devrim

[Patchd]

In other countries? Why would Iranian workers have to travel to other countries to participate in protests in Tehran? Also, there have been protests in other cities, what's to say there weren't many workers taking part in these protests?

Also regarding what Devrim said, I too was going to point out the population of Tehran (12 million) compared to the number of people out on the streets earlier this year (3 million), surely there aren't 3 million bourgeoisie living in Tehran?

[Devrim]

In other countries? Why would Iranian workers have to travel to other countries to participate in protests in Tehran?

I think You have misunderstood what he meant, which is in no small part due to him having constructed the sentence incorrectly.

I think he actually meant this:

"Because workers in bigger countries don't have the time or money to travel all the way to capitals to join a protest."

Using the correct preposition and putting the prepositional phrases in the right place has this terrific effect of helping people to understand what you mean.:)

Devrim

[Die Neue Zeit]

Tehran is a city of nearly 8 million people, Karaj, which is now on the Tehran metro and fast becoming a suburb, though it used to be a separate city, has a population of about one and a half million. In total Tehran province has a population of over twelve million people, which gives it a higher population than Greece.

Also, those who have been to Tehran will know, but for those who haven't it has a very working class character. Although it has only 11% of the countries population, it has just under 50% of its industry and about a third of its public employees.

The composition of the demonstrations is a different question, but certainly there are enough workers locally.

Devrim

I was referring to workers outside of the Tehran metro, where Islamic laws and state security might be slightly more lax (the latter being more typical of any authoritarian regime).

[Devrim]

I was referring to workers outside of the Tehran metro, where Islamic laws and state security might be slightly more lax (the latter being more typical of any authoritarian regime).

I don't know Iran that well though I have been there twice, and do know Iranian people. Also in some ways it is quite similar to this country, Turkey.

My impression is that, and it is the same in this country, bigger cities tend to be less Islamic and conservative. In no way are 'Islamic Laws' 'slightly more lax' in smaller cities. If anything they are more tightly applied.

On the geographical point, if one goes to a Mayday demonstration in Istanbul, workers from cities over 24 hours away by bus will be present with theie banners and their workmates (generally Mayday demonstrations in Istanbul number over half a million despite there being demonstrations in other cities too). I don't see why Iranian workers wouldn't travel for important demonstrations, particularly as the majority of the population in Iran lives in the North West and is relatively close to the capital.

Really, I wonder what you are talking about here.

Devrim

[Die Neue Zeit]

OK, so I was probably wrong about the "Islamic laws" part, but my point still stands re. state security. If protests or extra-legal action were led by some group whose interests are not of the working class, workers usually stand aside and let such amateurs go about their business.

The closest thing to "experience" on my part within this continent is all that Teabagger "libertarian" shit south of the border. Again, it's mostly self-employed folks, other folks who make a living through unproductive labour, and maybe small business owners (if they have the time to step away from running their own businesses).

Further south are the mostly right-wing student protests in Venezuela. Again, same phenomenon, with workers going about ordinary Bolivarian life.

Only under heightened periods of class struggle would "workers in bigger countries" "have the time or money to travel all the way to capitals to join a protest" - or more important political action.

[ls]

Only under heightened periods of class struggle would "workers in bigger countries" "have the time or money to travel all the way to capitals to join a protest" - or more important political action.

Not really, I agree that more of them would travel further - under a heightened period of class struggle but your assertion that workers "wouldn't" do that unless class-struggle is strong seems kind of incorrect, a lot of workers do travel a fair way for most protests in general I think you'll find. When there are solidarity protests with those happening in a country like Turkey or Iran, one would think it would certainly motivate people to go ahead and link up with other struggles across the country no? ;)

[Devrim]

If protests or extra-legal action were led by some group whose interests are not of the working class, workers usually stand aside and let such amateurs go about their business.

The closest thing to "experience" on my part within this continent is all that Teabagger "libertarian" shit south of the border. Again, it's mostly self-employed folks, other folks who make a living through unproductive labour, and maybe small business owners (if they have the time to step away from running their own businesses).

What a bizarre comparison to male. I don't think that you can compare the class composition of these Tea Party Libertarian protests to those in Iran at all.

It is difficult to asses exactly what is going on in Iran due to the difficulty in getting information, but there are some pointers.

It is known for example, that the Khadro car factory (the biggest car factory in Iran) went on strike in protest at the police and militia repression against the protests. This is the equivalent of GM in Detroit walking out in solidarity with these tax protesters, which as we know, didn't happen. It is also know that the militant bus drivers syndicate made protests. From what little I know about the 'Tea Party' movement nothing like this has happened there either.

Another interesting fact is that although the protests initially took place all over the city of Tehran, the protests in the Northern (middle class and upper) suburbs fizzled out shortly after the repression began. This would suggest contrary to your assertion that "If protests or extra-legal action were led by some group whose interests are not of the working class, workers usually stand aside and let such amateurs go about their business" that actually, the brunt of the repression was born by the working class and lower middle classes.

The level of violence involved in the regime's response is another point. As far as I am aware there haven't been any reports of 'Tea Party' protesters being shot down dead in the streets as yet. Perhaps this is because the US state feels under absolutely no threat at all from this 'movement'. However, the Iran state has resorted to murder, torture, and imprisonment of protesters. I would go as far as too suggest that this is because the regime itself actually feels threatened by these events. It is certainly not how I would expect them to respond if it were just a few middle class kids making a noise.

Which goes on to the size of the movement. First let's look at the 'Tea Party movement'. The biggest protests seem to have been these:


April 15 Tax-day events

April 15, 2009 was the date of the largest number of tea parties, with demonstrations reported to be occurring in more than 750 cities.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-met-30) Estimates of numbers of protesters varied by location and source. The Christian Science Monitor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Christian_Science_Monitor) reported on the difficulties of calculating a cumulative turnout and said some estimates state that over half a million Americans participated in the protests, noting, "experts say the counting itself often becomes politicized as authorities, organizers, and attendees often come up with dramatically different counts.".[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-csm-31)[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-csm-31)[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-nationwide-32) Grover Norquist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist), president of Americans for Tax Reform, estimated that at least 268,000 attended in over 200 cities.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-33) Statistician Nate Silver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Silver), manager of fivethirtyeight.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivethirtyeight.com), has stated that the largest protests were in capitals and large cities while many others had little or no reliable media coverage and were thus not included in his estimate. He reported cumulative crowd size from credible sources to be an estimated 311,460 for 346 cities and on April 16, 2009 stated "essentially all major cities and state capitals should now be accounted for."[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-ns-34) The largest event, in Atlanta, Georgia, drew an estimated 7,000[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-ajc-35) to 15,000 people.[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-ns-34)[37] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-Thousands_Attend_Atlanta_Tea_Party-36) Some of the gatherings drew only dozens.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_protests#cite_note-csm-31)


Whereas in the Iranian demonstrations sources, such as the BBC, were reporting numbers of up to half a million for a single demonstration, i.e. more people in a single city in one demonstration than the highest overestimates for the 'Tea Party Movement's' demonstrations across an entire country of over 300 million people.


I haven't seen figures as high as Patchd quoted, but that is not to say that they didn't happen. The point is the same though. That is an awful lot of the 'middle class' to be mobilised in one city. If you are right then one thing that you have to say about the Iranian middle classes is they certainly know how to mobilise their members. Maybe they could move to the states and make a living working as consultants for the major political parties concerned with getting people out on election day, when on average only 50% of the population even bother to go out and vote, let alone confront armed police on the streets.


On the point of students, it is true that students have played a large role in this movement, and much of it has been based around universities. However, I didn't see anybody shouting about how French students were all middle class during the CPE protests. Another point to take into consideration would be the numbers of people in university education. Iran has 3.5 million students in university education, the UK has 1.96 million. In other words, 5% of the Iranian population are studying at university compared to 3.2% in the UK. This certainly seems to suggest that access to higher education in wider in Iran than in the UK, and would suggest a higher number of working class students.


It is difficult to know about the exact composition of the demonstrations in Iran. Socialists in Iran seem to be saying that the demonstrations are indeed cross-class affairs, but that there is a high level of working class participation.


Of course working class participation in a movement does not in itself give a movement a socialist or working class character. The working can be mobilised behind different bourgeois factions. This is a different discussion though, and smearing the demonstrators as the privileged elite is better left to the Iranian state.


As for your point about state security being more intense in Tehran is probably wrong too. It is well know that outside of the capital riot police duties are all preformed by the Basij, who are notoriously brutal.


Devrim