Revolutionary Uniform?

[tehpevis]

Do you think the revolution has or should have a generally accepted uniform? And perhaps also some examples. Maybe each ideology, i.e., Stalinism, Anarchism, Focoism, etc., have a different one.

Personally, I like the Cuban and Latin American look. Olive drab, combat boots, white T-shirt, and a red star hat. Around the style of what Huey was wearing in the garden party in the first episode of The Boondocks. I also like the "Revolutionary Ninja" look the G-20 protesters are going with, but only for certain situations.

[whore]

do not want!

what the fuck do we, as individualists, wishing people to fulfil their potential, want with uniforms? things that make people all the same?

no fucking way mate!

the only point of a uniform is something like the black bloc, making it harder for the filth and authorities to distinguish between us (and thus to prosecute). (and it doesn't have to be black, the wombles did quite well with white, and others have used orange i believe.)

in an actual military situation, i.e. with guns roaring and bullets flying, maybe yes, maybe there needs to be a method of identifying friends vs foes. but for normal everyday run of the mill shit, fuck that shit.

i would rather have capitalism than same drab grey communism.

[cenv]

One of three things will happen:

1) No one takes revolutionaries seriously because they are more worried about dressing up in costumes than reaching out to people and making revolution.

2) Uniforms become a way of identifying an elite vanguard of professional "revolutionaries," and normal workers become spectators. An irreparable divide between revolutionaries and workers takes place.

3) No such divide occurs. Instead, everyone has to wear uniforms, and we create the cliched dystopian society where individual expression is discouraged -- in other words, we confirm the fears of communism's most misinformed critics, who claim that having a classless society means that everyone is equal and therefore identical.

Of course, there may be a few specialized cases where some kind of "uniform" is helpful, but any attempt to extend the use of uniforms beyond those specialized cases would create more problems that it solved.

[tehpevis]

I'm not talking about in the case of everyday life, I'm more talking about, say, either a distinguishing style of uniform or fashion that distinguishes one faction from another. Or, maybe, a personal uniform. Like what you would be wearing if reactionary bombs were falling on your mates' ass.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

if there was a revolutionary event then i would just be wearing what i usually wear... we dont need uniforms. If we need to identify our politics then just wear a badge like a red and black star badge if your an anarchist :star: red star if your a socialist :star2: and a hammer and sickle if your M-L :hammersickle: ... Also loads of trot groups have their own group badges..

But we dont need combats and red star hats...

[tehpevis]

I, personally, would go with what I had mentioned. I just like the style of it. Certainly, however, with the Anarchist :star:

[Sasha]

trade unions in south korea wear head bands with their own faction... thats pretty o'k.
but no, other than an blackblock if nescecary we should stay of the uniforms.

[NecroCommie]

Red armband does what uniforms do, but with less dividing of the nation, and with less cost. If you want camouflage value in combat... Well, it does not matter since revolutionaries don't engage in traditional warfare. Simple guerrilla styles would do.

But as we are speaking of uniform styles, I love the old Prussian military tradition. (in the sense of uniforms, armies can die for all I care) It's kind of simple and gritty, yet elegant in an organized way.

[Black Sheep]

Spain '36 style. ;)

[The Vegan Marxist]

I think the idea of a uniform would be used by the capitalist bourgeois to create a scare tactic within the populace. When one looks at military outfits, especially marching on their own street, they begin to worry about who these people are, & when news agencies start spreading propaganda against us, those people who fear us will then believe the news agencies. I believe a red/black bandanna wrapped around an arm or leg, or how ever you feel is necessary would work out sufficiently. The idea of stars is nice & all, but I feel it would only divide us as well, because then people would be choosing sides on who to fight with between all of us. So a red/black bandanna would work out the best, since we are all Communists/Anarchists in the long run, so naturally, we are of one.

[Decommissioner]

I think uniforms would alienate the working class, and uniforms signifying ones political persuasion will alienate leftists from each other.

Uniforms only work in specific situations. Maybe a union expresses solidarity by wearing the same colors, or everyone at protest wears the same color shirt, with a certain slogan on it, that would be fine. Outside of that, I see no use for them other than to be fashionable.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

It really doesn't matter, comrade.

[scarletghoul]

we should do it naked, imo

[RED DAVE]

Do you think the revolution has or should have a generally accepted uniform? And perhaps also some examples. Maybe each ideology, i.e., Stalinism, Anarchism, Focoism, etc., have a different one.

Personally, I like the Cuban and Latin American look. Olive drab, combat boots, white T-shirt, and a red star hat. Around the style of what Huey was wearing in the garden party in the first episode of The Boondocks. I also like the "Revolutionary Ninja" look the G-20 protesters are going with, but only for certain situations.Grow up. Costumes are for Halloween.

RED DAVE

[(A)narcho-Matt]

I think the idea of a uniform would be used by the capitalist bourgeois to create a scare tactic within the populace. When one looks at military outfits, especially marching on their own street, they begin to worry about who these people are, & when news agencies start spreading propaganda against us, those people who fear us will then believe the news agencies. I believe a red/black bandanna wrapped around an arm or leg, or how ever you feel is necessary would work out sufficiently. The idea of stars is nice & all, but I feel it would only divide us as well, because then people would be choosing sides on who to fight with between all of us. So a red/black bandanna would work out the best, since we are all Communists/Anarchists in the long run, so naturally, we are of one.


Thing is people would be choosing sides within the revolutionary movement, If there were revolutionary militias, they would be organised along the lines of political tendency, I dont think an anarchist would be welcome in a predominantly M-L militia... But anyway, I think really we should be thinking about how to build the revolutionary movement and class struggle, rather than discussing what we are going to wear on the big day....

[Chambered Word]

For general revolutionary activity, just wear whatever you usually do (unless you usually wear something that looks ridiculous). I personally like steel cap boots. :)

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

A black beret is all i need:)

[Bitter Ashes]

There's three points of wearing a uniform. Stripping individuality and camoflague and reducing friendly fire.

The first one is not something worth encouraging. The second one can be achieved in individual choices in what you wear. The third can be easily achieved simply by not wearing the same clothes as the enemy.

There is one final thing. International law. If you're offically representing a nation (like an army) then wearing a uniform allows you certain additional rights, namely that it's one of the things needed to conform to the classifcation of "legal combattant". If you're wearing a UN recognised uniform then you're entitled to the benefits of bieng a prisoner of war. Without it, you have significantly less rights if you're captured. There's not much you can do about any of this, because the UN will never recognise an insurrectionary group. It is worth bearing in mind though because if the enemy sheds thier uniform for false flag operations then there's a possibility of bieng able to use it as a propaganda tool to point out that the enemy are disobeying the Geneva Conventions.

[Axle]

No uniforms. That makes for positive identification, and revolutions aren't exactly legal.

In event of a revolution, we should be wearing heavy clothes, boots, ect...but nothing that could make us stick out in a crowd full of non-revolutionaries.

[IrishWorker]

A red arm band...

[LeninBalls]

How about nothing. Assuming you're fighting government troops, you can easily tell who is fighting the government and who isn't.

Fighting the government: Civilians with guns
Government forces: Guys in military apparel and police uniforms

Easy.

[Comrade Anarchist]

No but the Marxist, Trotskyist, Post-Trotskyist, Marcyist, Marxist-Leninist, Stalinist, Maoist, Hoxhaist, and Titoist and all the things that follow that ideology should dip themselves in innocent blood.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

just wear military fTIGUES IN THE COUNTRYSIDE AND WHATEVER IN URBAN SETTINGS

[#FF0000]

No but the leninists and all the things that follow that ideology should dip themselves in innocent blood.

Useless, sectarian garbage in Learning is not allowed. Don't do it again.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

Comrade what is gonzo communism?

[#FF0000]

Comrade what is gonzo communism?

Probably best to check the group out.

[Robocommie]

I think the only uniform the Left really needs is a combat jacket with pockets for the magazines for our Kalashnikovs. Or whatever the hell else we're using.

But generally no, I think that outside of any uniform tactical equipment or clothing used in say, guerilla cadres, because even cadres like the Tamil Tigers or the 26th of July movement DO use uniforms, we don't need anything. Let individual cadres get their own kit together.

After all, if we start wearing uniforms during actions, rallies, protests, we're going to start looking like Brownshirts. Leftists ain't stormtroopers and it'd be absolutely awful to make people think we are, and completely misinterpret what we stand for.

[Robocommie]

How about nothing. Assuming you're fighting government troops, you can easily tell who is fighting the government and who isn't.

Fighting the government: Civilians with guns
Government forces: Guys in military apparel and police uniforms

Easy.

There's other reasons though, tangible military reasons for using uniforms. It builds esprit de corps and morale, and provides an instant identification of who exactly is on your side, we can't assume everyone in street clothes with a gun is going to be on our side. Also, we don't necessarily want to open up non-combatants as "legitimate" targets because nobody knows who's a guerilla or not.

[Manifesto]

Spain '36 style. ;)
Gotta love those hats/bandannas.

[The Vegan Marxist]

How about nothing. Assuming you're fighting government troops, you can easily tell who is fighting the government and who isn't.

Fighting the government: Civilians with guns
Government forces: Guys in military apparel and police uniforms

Easy.

Like this guy (http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/militant_neonazi.jpg)?

I'm sure he won't be carrying the flag that's behind him all the time. So I seriously doubt we'd distinguish him as the opposite of who we are & what we're fighting for, due to how he looks like how a lot of us might go out as. So, no, I'd have to say the idea that 'civilians with guns' as our allies is quite flawed.

[Vendetta]

Everyone should go nude.

[Robocommie]

Like this guy (http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/militant_neonazi.jpg)?

I'm sure he won't be carrying the flag that's behind him all the time. So I seriously doubt we'd distinguish him as the opposite of who we are & what we're fighting for, due to how he looks like how a lot of us might go out as. So, no, I'd have to say the idea that 'civilians with guns' as our allies is quite flawed.

He's even wearing a kheffiyeh, which is pretty popular with Leftist pro-Palestinians.

[lines]

A good reason for wearing a uniform or some sort of identifying mark like a red arm band or a red star pin would be so that people who believe in communist ideology would be able to notice eachother in public.

[punisa]

Yugoslav partisan uniform :D
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2876/yugoslav5b15dpa4.jpg

[Chambered Word]

I think the only uniform the Left really needs is a combat jacket with pockets for the magazines for our Kalashnikovs. Or whatever the hell else we're using.

Yeah, just something pretty general for revolution. Like a shirt, maybe a vest/jacket and some webbing for equipment and such.

BDU pants and boots are also a must. Probably without steel caps, they tend to make running harder. :blushing:

But yeah, uniform really doesn't matter much. If we want to distinguish our revolutionaries from everybody else, some kind of armband would probably suffice.

[RED DAVE]

one more time, on one more thread, let me warn against this folly of the revolutionary party shooting it out in the streets with the army of the ruling class. should it come to that, we will be slaughtered. consider the easter rising in ireland.

please note that in the only successful working class seizure of power that took place in a city, the bolshevik revolution, the fighting was done by army units loyal to the ruling class and army units that had been won over to the revolution led by the bolsheviks. the party itself did not engage in fighting as many of you are fantasizing about.

RED DAVE

[Chambered Word]

one more time, on one more thread, let me warn against this folly of the revolutionary party shooting it out in the streets with the army of the ruling class. should it come to that, we will be slaughtered. consider the easter rising in ireland.

please note that in the only successful working class seizure of power that took place in a city, the bolshevik revolution, the fighting was done by army units loyal to the ruling class and army units that had been won over to the revolution led by the bolsheviks. the party itself did not engage in fighting as many of you are fantasizing about.

RED DAVE

We aren't morons. We're well aware of that. :rolleyes:

[The Ungovernable Farce]

please note that in the only successful working class seizure of power that took place in a city, the bolshevik revolution, the fighting was done by army units loyal to the ruling class and army units that had been won over to the revolution led by the bolsheviks. the party itself did not engage in fighting as many of you are fantasizing about.

Um, Paris? Barcelona? Madrid? I agree with you that this discussion is ridiculous, though.

[LeninBalls]

Like this guy (http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/militant_neonazi.jpg)?

I'm sure he won't be carrying the flag that's behind him all the time. So I seriously doubt we'd distinguish him as the opposite of who we are & what we're fighting for, due to how he looks like how a lot of us might go out as. So, no, I'd have to say the idea that 'civilians with guns' as our allies is quite flawed.

How about:

Civilians with guns shooting at you from the other direction: not your ally
Civilians with guns not shooting at you on the same direction as you: your ally

I don't see the big deal, the IRA never had a problem with friendly fire in combat, and I don't know of any other paramilitaries that have.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I don't see the big deal, the IRA never had a problem with friendly fire in combat, and I don't know of any other paramilitaries that have.
Unless you count feuding between the Official IRA, provo IRA, INLA, IPLO, etc, in which case they had quite a big problem. But I agree that wasn't caused by lack of uniforms.

[LeninBalls]

Unless you count feuding between the Official IRA, provo IRA, INLA, IPLO, etc, in which case they had quite a big problem. But I agree that wasn't caused by lack of uniforms.

There's a difference between a feud and accidentally shooting your comrades in combat. Even then the feuds like you said were hardly caused by uniforms.

[Muzk]

http://img.youtube.com/vi/xnQLy7N4MxA/0.jpg

THIS!

[Robocommie]

one more time, on one more thread, let me warn against this folly of the revolutionary party shooting it out in the streets with the army of the ruling class. should it come to that, we will be slaughtered. consider the easter rising in ireland.

please note that in the only successful working class seizure of power that took place in a city, the bolshevik revolution, the fighting was done by army units loyal to the ruling class and army units that had been won over to the revolution led by the bolsheviks. the party itself did not engage in fighting as many of you are fantasizing about.

RED DAVE

Santa Clara was a city.

We're not really talking about going all Red Army Faction here. I'd like to think it's pretty obvious we're speaking hypothetically, in the heat of the revolution, when the fighting is actually occurring.

It's my personal feeling that the US government is far too strong to make any kind of direct action anything other than a stupid, suicidal waste.

[The Vegan Marxist]

http://img.youtube.com/vi/xnQLy7N4MxA/0.jpg

THIS!

I'm down, but I'd rather wear this (http://www.thechestore.com/proddetail.php?prod=JeepRS&cat=13) as my hat instead. :lol:

[The Ungovernable Farce]

The important thing is to make sure you stand in front of a picture of Che and a big hammer and sickle at all times.

[9]

I think this is an important question; perhaps the most pressing issue facing communists today.
After careful consideration, I've determined the most feasible, tactically-sound option:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Berry-wall-king-dudes.jpg

Case closed.

[Robocommie]

If we dress like the Monopoly guy, then the capitalist soldiers won't recognize us, they'll think we're the guys in charge, and then we can surprise them!

[Partizani]

Whatever is on hand. Look at the Russian Invasion of Georgia, the south ossetian guerrillas came out wearing whatever they had, tracksuits in some examples + a tactical vest of some sort.
A kind of identification IS needed if we expect to receive rights of the Geneva Convention. Like another comrade said, red armbands or scarfs.
Organisation is needed, no matter what some people may argue about the implication of ranks as being counter revolutionary. The best example of a Organised Socialist Army in my opinion is the International Brigades. They realised the need for proper training and equipment. Their uniform was pretty much Khaki due to the Spanish Environment.

NOTE: I'm not glorifying the Russian Invasion of Georgia, merely using it as a military example.

[RedAnarchist]

I'm going to move this to Chit Chat.

As for my personal opinion on a "revolutionary uniform", there's no need for one. When the times comes, leftists will not be a army in the classic sense of the word, so we won't need uniforms. Plus, you'll be able to tell the difference between a worker who is class concious and a police officer/soldier/militia member/reactionary anyway.

[Stand Your Ground]

I think a uniform is a good idea but only during a war/armed battle situation, we don't need to be accidentally shooting our own comrades. If not a full uniform a hat, armband or a jacket or something, just something to tell us from the enemy.

[bcbm]

http://www.topnews.in/files/Nigerian-Militants-8561.jpg

http://boulevardier4eva.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/stonewallveterans.jpg?w=426&h=450

something that just looks good

[Tyrlop]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-Z0127-305,_Berlin_1927,_Reichstreffen_RFB,_Th%C3%A4lmann ,_Leow.jpg
this is what i'm going to wear,
or a sailor shirt + maoist hat

[Angry Young Man]

i would rather have capitalism than same drab grey communism.

This is why I'm not an anarchist. Anyway, if it hasn't already been said, Bilan's the fashionista, he can design the uniforms.

[Panda Tse Tung]

UN recognised uniformIIRC (having read this specific bill) it is about a recognisable uniform, not a UN recognised uniform ;).



A kind of identification IS needed if we expect to receive rights of the Geneva Convention. Like another comrade said, red armbands or scarfs.Actually, you need an entire uniform for that. Or a VERY distinctive symbol.

Also, i'mma show it to you people. Damn you for making me google this.

The original:

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:[
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

[Pirate Utopian]

We'll wear clothes from the Che Store ofcourse, it's for all our revolutionary needs!

[whore]

This is why I'm not an anarchist. Anyway, if it hasn't already been said, Bilan's the fashionista, he can design the uniforms.
you would rather have everyone look alike, think alike, be alike etc? well fuc that shit. at leats under capitalism there is some room for individualism.

oh, and further thoughts on revoolutionary uniforms, butt naked. totally naked, nothing wearing nothing.

so much cooler than the fucking communists with their boring grey uniforms that all look alike. everyone is different!

[Wanted Man]

http://germandressdaggers.com/Uniforms/Uniform%20Uniform%20army%20oberleutnant%201936%20i nfantry%201.jpg

[Sasha]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vSyk6SJoF1M/RxkNQ23i0JI/AAAAAAAAAgM/uf8NQR0krs8/s400/NAKED+AUTONOMEN.JPG

[Tyrlop]

http://germandressdaggers.com/Uniforms/Uniform%20Uniform%20army%20oberleutnant%201936%20i nfantry%201.jpg
please restrict for posting this kind of stuff. it is very insulting, ofcourse the communist movement shouldn't have that kind of uniforms, only reacionary forces would do that.

Symbols like Swastikas, skulls, arrows and crosses are antileftish
we stand with hammer and sickle peace pigeons stars and the red colour.

this is what i will wear the great they i will see fascist blood on my boots they shall not pass
http://www.jhs-wilhelm-pieck.de/25a.jpg

[Woyzeck]

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5334/090630stadefrancaisnewj.jpg

[(A)narcho-Matt]

Symbols like Swastikas, skulls, arrows and crosses are antileftish
we stand with hammer and sickle peace pigeons stars and the red colour.


Pretty sure the black army used a skull as its badge...

[Chambered Word]

http://www.topnews.in/files/Nigerian-Militants-8561.jpg



I wonder if that guy knows there's no barrel in his gun. :D

[Robocommie]

SO5WoLnOOlU

"Have you ever noticed the badges on our caps?"

[Ravachol]

Pah, uniforms.
Why should we look to the geneva convention. It's not like the revolutionary struggle is going to be a formal war of any sorts (whether guerilla or conventional). Uniforms would only serve any purpose in the phase of general insurrection where worker's militias are common and the bourgoisie police has been wiped out.

As for 'uniforms' serving to distinguish friend from foe, forget it. The closest thing to a uniform in far-left circles is the all-black autonomen outfit and I've seen plenty of cases where far-left activists (myself included :rolleyes:) were mistaken for 'autonome nationalisten', so meh.

[Chambered Word]

Like I said before combat gear is nice, but for the purpose of distinguishing friend from foe I like the idea of having hammer and sickle armbands. :)

[scarletghoul]

http://bp0.blogger.com/__FgkDXnC3HA/RenbgcKk1NI/AAAAAAAAABY/MQ2yHBa1hDc/s320/200px-Yuliya.jpg
Like I said before combat gear is nice, but for the purpose of distinguishing friend from foe I like the idea of having hammer and sickle armbands. :)

[(A)narcho-Matt]

(forum wont let me quote the pic???)

Isnt that a national bolshevik badge?

[Sam_b]

http://blogs.tampabay.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/09/big_bird.jpg

Congratulations! This question is stupid.

[bcbm]

big bird is actually the best idea. who could shoot big bird?!

[Chambered Word]

http://bp0.blogger.com/__FgkDXnC3HA/RenbgcKk1NI/AAAAAAAAABY/MQ2yHBa1hDc/s320/200px-Yuliya.jpg

Obviously not a NazBol one. A simple red one with a yellow hammer and sickle emblem would be perfect.

[Sasha]

big bird is actually the best idea. who could shoot big bird?!

i could... no question about it.
man, i could give elmo an headshot and not loose any sleep over it. :lol:

[bcbm]

i could... no question about it.
man, i could give elmo an headshot and not loose any sleep over it. :lol:

you're a despicable monster

[Sasha]

you're a despicable monster


http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/images/elmo_desk-small.jpg

my workspace in my basement as we speak :lol:

[bcbm]

:crying:

[Orange Juche]

Yes, we should, and it should be this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FH6fp9yf0Ao/SXk0CNOFBmI/AAAAAAAACKE/zrmPKH-CQ5c/s400/white-tiger-ranger.jpg

[bcbm]

green ranger was better

[Orange Juche]

green ranger was better

Yeah, good point. And then we could have the dragonzord too.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

does every revolutionary organisation get its own megazord??

[Robespierre2.0]

let's wear shirts that have 'I AM A REACTIONARY' printed on the front. then, we can catch them off guard when the revolution comes.

alternately, we could wear shirts that say 'REPRESS ME! I AM A MARXIST RADICAL!"

[bcbm]

:huh:

[Bilan]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_l_HuGQu9G6Q/SNu-lgpfF2I/AAAAAAAAAOM/kD_tg4JNEvM/s400/Dandys_1830.jpg

Revolutionary uniform.

[ls]

http://i.usatoday.net/news/_photos/2008/08/06/kiltuniformx.jpg

[Panda Tse Tung]

green ranger was better
Green was the same as the white ranger.

[Slán_Abhaile]

Non-militant revolutionary organisations do not require a uniform. There are few benefits to a uniform (identifiable to people) but these are massively outweighed by the negatives (identifiable to authorities, reactionaries, etc.) and are therefore impracticable.

If Wall Street collapsed tomorrow and riots ensued, would you run home to get your uniform? I don't think so. Revolutionaries must be normal, we must blend in where possible with the wider community, using its language and customs so that we can be judged as credible.

Obviously armed groups seeking to build an identifiable image should have a uniform, such as the marxist Irish National Liberation Army (INLA), which is worn on ceremonial occasions such as remembering fallen revolutionaries. This uniform is composed of a black beret, black military NATO-style pull over, black combat trousers, a white belt, and black boots.

[bcbm]

Green was the same as the white ranger.

no, white was after he went through all kinds of fancy magic crap and became a total good guy.

[Comrade B]

Nudism

[A.J.]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Bf0CoMAdCbE/SPPb-2ipcZI/AAAAAAAAAMc/GW7jegi83w0/s320/swedish_girls.jpg

:cool:

[A.R.Amistad]

Guys, I am WAY ahead of all of you. Why no one listens to me the first time I have no clue :rolleyes:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=2904

[Rusty Shackleford]

http://www.grifotour.com/obj/image/Cosimo-il%20Vecchio.jpg


cosimo had it right