Why do people always say communism is great in theory?

[lines]

I really hate hearing people say communism is great in theory but that it never worked in history. Cuba seems to be doing just fine. If you check out some stats on wikipedia you will find that Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the USA and Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world. It manages to do this despite its hostile neighbor to the north. The soviet union only collapsed because America engaged economic warfare on it. The guy who delivers armenian food to me told me that life in the soviet union was a lot less stressful than in America because in AMerica there is so many bills to worry about... and he only moved to the USA because the soviet system fell.

Why is it that people, at least in the USA, say that communism is great in theory but not in practice?... it seems to be working just fine in Cuba.

I feel like saying to those people "well actually communism works ok but capitalism on the other hand is great in theory but when implemented has horrible effects on the world".

[Mälli]

Cuba is not communist at the moment.

[Muzk]

I've encountered this shit too. It's a chain of propaganda, where one person takes the opinion of another. In most cases, they don't even know the theory.

[Hexen]

Why is it that people, at least in the USA, say that communism is great in theory but not in practice?

Another reason there will never be a socialist revolution in the US as long the majority of the population believes this crap.

[cenv]

Because for most people...

Communist theory = Let's all be equal, which means wearing the same clothes, eating the same foods, and sharing your toothbrush with your neighbor.

Communist practice = OMG EVIL STALIN ZOMBIES TAKING OVER THE WORLD!

Most people never find out what communism is. They just adopt the "common sense" assumption of bourgeois ideology that "communism works in theory, but not in practice" -- whatever that means. One way to combat this ignorance is by asking people to elaborate on their reasoning when they give you this argument. By trying to explain this position, they'll usually reveal a very flawed understanding of communism (or no understanding at all), which gives you a chance to jump in and clarify the basic ideas behind communism.

[Drace]

The guy who delivers armenian food to me told me that life in the soviet union was a lot less stressful than in America because in AMerica there is so many bills to worry about... and he only moved to the USA because the soviet system fell.


Xorovats? Kabab? Khachapuri? Ajarakan khachapuri?
Lol, you must be living in my city.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

I really hate hearing people say communism is great in theory but that it never worked in history. Cuba seems to be doing just fine. If you check out some stats on wikipedia you will find that Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the USA and Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world. It manages to do this despite its hostile neighbor to the north. The soviet union only collapsed because America engaged economic warfare on it. The guy who delivers armenian food to me told me that life in the soviet union was a lot less stressful than in America because in AMerica there is so many bills to worry about... and he only moved to the USA because the soviet system fell.

Why is it that people, at least in the USA, say that communism is great in theory but not in practice?... it seems to be working just fine in Cuba.

I feel like saying to those people "well actually communism works ok but capitalism on the other hand is great in theory but when implemented has horrible effects on the world".


Cuba is a capitalist country...

Ive heard this arguement many many times, most of it is down to complete ignorance of communist theory and also the belief that all communists are stalinists. That is probably one of the most anoying things for me, when I tried to explain to someone the basics of anarchist communism,they just said "if you love communism so much why dont you go live in china its working out good there :rolleyes:" :huh:

[AK]

People have been subjected to enough propaganda to believe that they know everything possible about Communist theory.

[NecroCommie]

There are many reasons, but I believe the most important one is because these people understand that if they say "you are right, but..." they appear more like the good guy, than if they would have shouted: "you are wrong!" The primitive psychology of debating.

[lines]

Cuba is a capitalist country...

Ive heard this arguement many many times, most of it is down to complete ignorance of communist theory and also the belief that all communists are stalinists. That is probably one of the most anoying things for me, when I tried to explain to someone the basics of anarchist communism,they just said "if you love communism so much why dont you go live in china its working out good there :rolleyes:" :huh:

China is most definately capitalist. What makes you say Cuba is is capitalist? And did you imply Cuba is stalinist:huh:? Cuba is certainly not stalinist.

Cubas economy is state controlled, it does have a few foreign investments but everything is overseen by the state and most is owned by the state.

That sounds communist to me and from what I understand it seems to be working out great for them and can be used as a model for America to progress into.

[GPDP]

China is most definately capitalist. What makes you say Cuba is is capitalist? And did you imply Cuba is stalinist:huh:? Cuba is certainly not stalinist.

Cubas economy is state controlled, it does have a few foreign investments but everything is overseen by the state and most is owned by the state.

That sounds communist to me and from what I understand it seems to be working out great for them and can be used as a model for America to progress into.

Communism is a stateless, classless society.

Cuba is neither stateless nor classless.

Therefore, Cuba is not communist.

Is it socialist? Depends on who you ask. It definitely has socialist tendencies at the very least. But to me, if the economy is "state controlled," it definitely also possesses state-capitalist features, which hurts its purported image of being a socialist country. Unless, that is, that state is controlled by the working class from top to bottom. Again, it does have features of working class organs of power, but at the top, there is still a bureaucratic layer which impedes the working class from fully taking over the Cuban state for its own means.

In any case, I do support Cuba, but to call it communist is absurd.

[The Vegan Marxist]

I'd have to agree. Cuba is far from a communist society. But, it does have socialist aspects within it, & that's all thanks to Fidel Castro. But, I fear we may see Cuba start slipping down within ranks since Raul Castro came into power. He's bringing in some capitalist policies within Cuba, which will only conflict with the work that Fidel did his entire time within presidency.

[Chambered Word]

I've encountered this shit too. It's a chain of propaganda, where one person takes the opinion of another. In most cases, they don't even know the theory.

Muzk is right. They hear bullshit and repeat it. If you ask them how come they think so, they'll probably say something along the lines of "Because it assumes everyone is going to be nice."

If you get into this argument, apply the same standards to capitalism and they'll feel a bit stupid.

[Incendiarism]

They are assholes and not worth talking to, that's why.

[Chambered Word]

They are assholes and not worth talking to, that's why.

Not everyone who hears this shit and repeats it is an asshole, what a ridiculous assertion.

[BIG BROTHER]

Most people believe that communism is great in theory but never works in practice because of 3 main reasons in my opinion

1)The fall of the Soviet Union. Regardless your opinion on the Soviet Union, its fall was the biggest ideological blow to the radical left.

2)The ideas of the ruling class are the ruling ideas on a society, on top of that there is the propaganda against dangerous ideas.

3)The defeats of workers rights and gains, along with most people's lack in class struggle which keeps them blinded from the possibility of a new type of world.

[ZeroNowhere]

They think having government control over most aspects of your life is good in theory. At least, if they're to be consistent.

[ContrarianLemming]

Most people believe that communism is great in theory but never works in practice because of 3 main reasons in my opinion

1)The fall of the Soviet Union. Regardless your opinion on the Soviet Union, its fall was the biggest ideological blow to the radical left.


the fall of the soviet union was a victory for socialism, lenin was an enemy of socialism

what's an anarchist to do in these sort of threads..

[Stephen Colbert]

I really hate hearing people say communism is great in theory but that it never worked in history. Cuba seems to be doing just fine. If you check out some stats on wikipedia you will find that Cuba has a higher life expectancy than the USA and Cuba has the highest literacy rate in the world. It manages to do this despite its hostile neighbor to the north. The soviet union only collapsed because America engaged economic warfare on it. The guy who delivers armenian food to me told me that life in the soviet union was a lot less stressful than in America because in AMerica there is so many bills to worry about... and he only moved to the USA because the soviet system fell.

Why is it that people, at least in the USA, say that communism is great in theory but not in practice?... it seems to be working just fine in Cuba.

I feel like saying to those people "well actually communism works ok but capitalism on the other hand is great in theory but when implemented has horrible effects on the world".

Alot of people, especially those who are older, want nothing more than the status quo offered by Capitalism and reactionary conservatism. Most people believe communism is great in theory because of socially utopian principles, but disregard it because of lower quality of life once enacted, and death from KGB and statist organizations in general that jail political opposition, and the collectivization of agriculture that killed millions in the USSR vis--vis famine.

Great in theory, has yet to prove itself in practice?

[robbo203]

The soviet union only collapsed because America engaged economic warfare on it.".

Well thats an interesting argument. So according to you the Soviet Union folded because it couldnt stand the pressure exerted upon it by the USA which was engaged in "economic warfare" against it (care to substantiate this claim BTW? If anything there were increasing bilateral trade and investment links between the SU and the USA towards the end)

In any case thats not much of an advertisement for the state capitalist regime is it? You are saying it lost out to the superior might of the USA in effect. Certainly, the diversion of resources into unproductive military spending was part of the explanation but only part. Another was the fact that the collapse of the Soviet Union was actually the result of a "revolution from above". The ruling class - the red bourgeoisie - ditched the SU because it was in their interests to do. This was particularly the case with the power regional elites who switched allegiance and tax payments from soviet to republican institutions making the "collapse" almost certain. Nealry half of all the super rich Russian oligarchs today were previously high ranking members of the pseudo "communist party". Ask yourself why is this?

[#FF0000]

the fall of the soviet union was a victory for socialism, lenin was an enemy of socialism

what's an anarchist to do in these sort of threads..

Back up their dumb assertions for one.

See:

Cuba is a capitalist country...

[(A)narcho-Matt]

Back up their dumb assertions for one.

See:

In cuba everything is owned by the state, not the workers. So how is Cuba not state capitalist?

[Muzk]

In cuba everything is owned by the state, not the workers. So how is Cuba not state capitalist?

You shouldn't overgeneralize it too much, Fidel is a socialist after all, and I'd rather collaborate with Fidel than with any other bourgeoise politician. He won't stand in our way at all.
I'm pretty sure he'd do everything he can to help the working class of other countries in overthrowing their own government

[Luisrah]

In cuba everything is owned by the state, not the workers. So how is Cuba not state capitalist?

If there is no private property, if the state holds the means of production and truly represents the interests of the people (I'm guessing that the near 0% illiteracy and 0% malnutrition, etc probably means it does), if no one is getting exploited, and if Fidel seems only to enjoy the same privileges as the working class, and he and the island assume to be socialist.

Yes, I guess it's state capitalism, my bad. :o

[Comrade Anarchist]

First off cuba is not communist in any meaning of the word, they are more state capitalist, totalitarian. The reason that people say it is good in theory is b/c every time a revolution occurs and it calls itself communistic it means fascist, totalitarian, and is run by an oligarchy or a despot of some type. It is also said to be good in theory b/c in theory man loves man and yet in real life we see that man loves himself followed by his things followed by his neighbor's wife, then maybe his neighbor. So to incorporate communism would be to separate man from himself which is impossible. Freedom of the individual through collective freedom is an empty bullshit phrase b/c if you don't put the individual first in a revolution (egoism) then you are just destroying capitalism and the state to replace it with a new authority that has all the same power and oppressiveness, the collective.

[Drace]

If its good in theory then it should be good in practice.
Just to show people will aimlessly take up any argument without thought.


First off cuba is not communist in any meaning of the word, they are more state capitalist, totalitarian.

Cuba is socialist. And not very totalitarian for that matter.

[Luisrah]

The willpower of the masses is infinite, and it can accomplish any goals.
Communism is good in theory, and good in practice.

When someone says that communism is only good in theory, there's a revolutionary that looses his spirit, and a hundred workers that become more zombie-like.

When the masses, that make up, by far, the largest portion of the population, gain consciousness, there's nothing they can't do.

[Invincible Summer]

First off cuba is not communist in any meaning of the word, they are more state capitalist, totalitarian. The reason that people say it is good in theory is b/c every time a revolution occurs and it calls itself communistic it means fascist, totalitarian, and is run by an oligarchy or a despot of some type. It is also said to be good in theory b/c in theory man loves man and yet in real life we see that man loves himself followed by his things followed by his neighbor's wife, then maybe his neighbor. So to incorporate communism would be to separate man from himself which is impossible. Freedom of the individual through collective freedom is an empty bullshit phrase b/c if you don't put the individual first in a revolution (egoism) then you are just destroying capitalism and the state to replace it with a new authority that has all the same power and oppressiveness, the collective.

Have you read Masse Mensch by Ernst Toller? It addresses the whole "egoist revolutionary" vs "collectivist (for the lack of a better term) revolutionary" dichotomy.

Also, you're making communism sound like The Borg from Star Trek. Perhaps I'm not understanding you correctly (not that your position is all that clear), but I think that if revolutionaries were to put individual freedoms and such before the "greater good" of a worker's revolution, then you'd just have a bunch of factioning and disorganization. There has to be a (generally) mass organized force to overthrow capitalism, not a ragtag bunch of radicals that don't organize together because one group is more trans/queer focused and the other not

[Misanthrope]

I don't see how a theory not being previously applied makes it a "bad" theory.

[Manifesto]

Because for most people...

Communist theory = Let's all be equal, which means wearing the same clothes, eating the same foods, and sharing your toothbrush with your neighbor.
LOL You forgot all the houses will look the same and anyone can walk into it and take all of your stuff :p


1)The fall of the Soviet Union. Regardless your opinion on the Soviet Union, its fall was the biggest ideological blow to the radical left.

What's with that anyways? I have NEVER heard anyone say that people are not Nazis because the Third Reich fell nor has it ever been held against them even remotely.

[Stephen Colbert]

Well thats an interesting argument. So according to you the Soviet Union folded because it couldnt stand the pressure exerted upon it by the USA which was engaged in "economic warfare" against it (care to substantiate this claim BTW? If anything there were increasing bilateral trade and investment links between the SU and the USA towards the end)

In any case thats not much of an advertisement for the state capitalist regime is it? You are saying it lost out to the superior might of the USA in effect. Certainly, the diversion of resources into unproductive military spending was part of the explanation but only part. Another was the fact that the collapse of the Soviet Union was actually the result of a "revolution from above". The ruling class - the red bourgeoisie - ditched the SU because it was in their interests to do. This was particularly the case with the power regional elites who switched allegiance and tax payments from soviet to republican institutions making the "collapse" almost certain. Nealry half of all the super rich Russian oligarchs today were previously high ranking members of the pseudo "communist party". Ask yourself why is this?

I feel like alot of the discontent with communism and the continual reference to the USSR can be refuted simply by commenting something like this:

"Well, once economic liberalizations and 'modernizations' become more and more prevalent in the USSR's political structure, there became more and more class stratification to the point where the 'union' aspect ceased to exist, and the USSR turned into the 'commonwealth' in 1991."

Also, think of the geographic and unmodernized geo-politics of russia: large, cold, urban. Is it really possible to have classless, stateless society in a huge and relatively decentralized state? No.

But now its 2010, not the 1900's. Technology has radically improved and so has the population concentration. Collectivization would be much easier because for the most part people live in urban areas and social networking/horticulture-biotech has drastically improved.

:tt1: