Post revolutionary law and graffiti.

[Dr Mindbender]

i wasnt sure where to post this but this board seemed most relevant, and it doesnt get much pure discussion anyway.

After the revolution, how should the law operate regarding grafitti? if for example i own a house, which someone paints without my consent would the law apprehend this person?

Should all public places be free reign to graffiti artists if we are to understand it is the property of all the workers?

Views?

[Sasha]

who would want to paint on your house if they can paint on the royal palace?

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Cut their hands off.

[Dr Mindbender]

who would want to paint on your house if they can paint on the royal palace?

I'd like to think that the royal palace would either be demolished admist the heat of revolutionary fervour or [preferably] divided into comparitively modest apartments.

The latter being the case, i'd hope no one would attempt to paint it without the owners consent.

[Dr Mindbender]

Cut their hands off.

Thats sharia law you're thinking of, not communism.

[ls]

Thats sharia law you're thinking of, not communism.

Erm, I have never heard of a Islamic state cut someone's hands off for spraying graffiti, in fact you'll find in Libya it wasn't even illegal until some time ago so..

I think graffiti is pretty cool myself, sometimes. It should be actually encouraged on all metal shop shutters (providing it looks good), on random grey big industrial tincans and shit like that. :D

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I think you should have a licence issued based on sample artwork done on specially located walls, this is because if it was legalized to write what i wanted on anything my town would have "JOE WAZ ERE JAN 2010" in ten foot writing on every house , shop and bridge accompanied by the trade mark crude drawing of an ejaculating penis.

[ls]

:lol:

There is a study by some posh wank from kingston uni, "investigating" the spray tags near my, I really did lol at it, it was more like a joke. But you should try that near me fosho.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

our graffiti is shit here its either old (A)s I carved into things with my keys when I was thirteen or marker pen post code gang markings (not hard gang more wana be gangster gang)

[ls]

"penis drawings must mark the AK-22 badboyz gang from mount pleasant drive"

[Dr Mindbender]

Erm, I have never heard of a Islamic state cut someone's hands off for spraying graffiti

Probably not, but i'm fairly confident that Islamic states are the only sort of authority that cut people's hands off for anything. Secondly i'm pretty sure Libya isnt a sharia state (some weird third positionist islamic-socialist ideology) so i'm not sure why Libya is irrelevant. I'd be more interested to know Iran's position on it for a sharia perspective (which i'm not, this thread is intended to discuss the future communist policy).



our graffiti is shit here its either old (A)s I carved into things with my keys when I was thirteen or marker pen post code gang markings (not hard gang more wana be gangster gang)
You think you have it bad, round here its UVF this, UDA that. Its not just old, its also politically shite.

[ls]

Probably not, but i'm fairly confident that Islamic states are the only sort of authority that cut people's hands off for anything. Secondly i'm pretty sure Libya isnt a sharia state (some weird third positionist islamic-socialist ideology) so i'm not sure why Libya is irrelevant. I'd be more interested to know Iran's position on it for a sharia perspective.

Neither Libya nor Iran are 'sharia' in your 'pure' sense because there is no such thing as one unified vision of it, so basically all of them are 'revisionist' if you will, equally so.

[Dr Mindbender]

Neither Libya nor Iran are 'sharia' in your 'pure' sense because there is no such thing as one unified vision of it, so basically all of them are 'revisionist' if you will, equally so.

At least Col. Gaddafi pays lip service to socialist values, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an unapologetic theocrat.

[An archist]

I'd say rules for painting grafiti would be made by local neighbourhood organisations. So they would change from neihgbourhood to neighbourhood.

[CELMX]

This is just my opinion, but I believe most people would not vandalize on "private" homes, unless they were very very pissed at you...and you would probably know who that person was. You can have a talk with them, and if they do not stop harrassing you or vandalising your home, then they would have to do some unpleasant job, like garbage collecting.

[RedAnarchist]

In a post-revolutionary society, no one will care about some paint on a wall. The only time I see it becoming a problem for a community would be if it were offensive in some way (racist, homophobic, sexist etc). People should be encouraged to help decorate their local communities with creative graffiti (as in, more than just a scribbled name or something), because there are some depressingly ugly buildings around that could do with some brightening up.

[Sasha]

i only asume that after the revolution public space will finaly be public again.
dont want graffiti? make your house so nice that graffity artists wont touch it.

[lines]

Grafitti should be illegal. If you examine the world you will find that everywhere there is an abundance of grafitti you will fing people living in poverty and things in chaos. Grafitti is a destructive active. It has a decaying effect on a neighborhood.

[Sasha]

^ read "wall and piece" by banksy
come back than.

the broken window theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixing_Broken_Windows) is demolished an long time ago.

[RedAnarchist]

Grafitti should be illegal. If you examine the world you will find that everywhere there is an abundance of grafitti you will fing people living in poverty and things in chaos. Grafitti is a destructive active. It has a decaying effect on a neighborhood.


Really? You actually think that graffiti contributes that much to the decay of a neighbourhood? Decay is caused far more by low wages, inadequate housing, lack of public services or jobs etc.

[Ravachol]

You think you have it bad, round here its UVF this, UDA that. Its not just old, its also politically shite.

Hah, that used to be the case in an Irish Pub I used to frequent here in my country. Ceased visiting it after getting uncomfortable looks at a republican hoodie I was wearing :laugh:

[Vendetta]

Grafitti should be illegal. If you examine the world you will find that everywhere there is an abundance of grafitti you will fing people living in poverty and things in chaos. Grafitti is a destructive active. It has a decaying effect on a neighborhood.

Graffiti has nothing to do with causing any of that.

[lines]

I'm not suggesting graffiti is the overall cause of poverty. I am saying where-ever you find graffiti there is social decay and graffiti can contribute to social decay. It is demoralizing for people to walk around in neighborhoods with graffiti and litter. Those things encourage a sense of hopelessness among the people. When people live in neighborhoods they can be proud of they are more likely to be active in fighting for better standards of living. Part of making a neighborhood a place one can be proud to live in is by planting trees and gardens, cleaning up litter and having places to recycle, and by washing graffiti off of walls.

[Sasha]

but isnt graffiti also an way of reclaiming public space from advertisers and the bourgois state?
offcourse mindless tagging should be countert, but the only way to counter that is by the community getting together. And one of the best ways to prevent idiot tagging is by having high quality street art, why do you think local goverments ask profesional artists to do the pannels around construction site's.

if you look in places where the revolution was close (paris may 68), temporarly there (early years after the russian revolution) or that give an glimps of an post revolutionairy society (squats, christiania in denmark) you'll see an increadible amount of high quality artwork, mostly on the streets.

[lines]

You raise an interesting point. My opinion on the matter is that when people engage in illegal acts of graffiti the result of that is that they make themselves vulnerable to police harassment and being put in jail. And so even if a graffiti artist were to paint a beautiful mural it would be an activity that they should avoid doing because it would make them vulnerable to abuse by the state. I do think that public murals that are done in an artistic way can enhance the beauty of a neighborhood however that sort of thing should be done in a legal manner. Graffiti tags scrawled all over the place are disgusting though. If a socially conscious person does graffiti and then goes to jail the result of that is that they are depriving society of the positive influence they could have had on society during the time they spent in jail.

[the last donut of the night]

lines:

You demonstrate a common idea that somehow graffiti is a sign of social decay or is ugly. Not true. A lot of graffiti is done by artists trying to convey their own message out onto the world, trying to express themselves, only to be done in by bourgeois laws that deem any 'defacing' of property to be wrong.

After the revolution, I think people would be much more compelled and encouraged to leave their own mark on the world, and graffiti is a way to do it/

[革命者]

If after the revolution we still have laws and need an owner's consent for anything, I think the revolution has failed.

[rednordman]

Seriously, there definitley should be allocated areas for it. Perhaps somewhere where alot of people can see it. It would be a good way for certain people to express themselves and get there messages across. It could also be something to cause conversation and discussion, so that old taboos could get laid to rest, instead of swept under the carpet.

[Dr Mindbender]

but isnt graffiti also an way of reclaiming public space from advertisers and the bourgois state?
.
The question im asking is it not redundant to 'reclaim' public space in a post-bourgeoisie state?

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

If after the revolution we still have laws and need an owner's consent for anything, I think the revolution has failed.

What a ridiculous assertion.

------------------------

SCENARIO 1

CoaPN: *Grabs 革命者's phone*

CoaPN: *Throw's 革命者's phone to the ground, breaking it into pieces*

革命者: "Dude, what the fuck?"

CoaPN: "We just had a revolution man, I don't need your consent to destroy your shit."

SCENARIO 2

CoaPN: "That's a cool sweater man."

革命者: "Thanks, I'm trying to look my best tonight."

CoaPN: *Sprays green paint all over 革命者's sweater*

革命者: "Dude, what the fuck?"

CoaPN: "We just had a revolution man, I don't need your consent to deface your shit."

SCENARIO 3

革命者: "Hey Culture of a Peachy Nation, that new paint job on your house looks really nice."

CoaPN: "Thanks man, it's taken me three weekends to do!"

*A bunch of kids come by and tag my front door... and my garage... and my driveway... and my car... with a really unimaginative font*

CoaPN: "What the fuck?"

革命者: We just had a revolution man, they don't need your consent to tag your shit."

----------------------

Yes, I'm all for some revolutionary art in public places and on private property, but I don't want my car hood looking like a dive-bar bathroom.

[Dr Mindbender]

^

the thing to remember here is, theres a big difference between personal property, public property and private property.

;)

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

^

the thing to remember here is, theres a big difference between personal property, public property and private property.

;)

Sure, but if we're talking about graffiti in a socialist society, then we've abolished private property and the only kind of property left is either a) public or b) personal. So when this guy talks about the 'owner', he's referring to any regular Joe and his personal shit.