Hello!

[SeeBRFC]

Hello everybody. I have read these forums for months now I have just now decided to join. I love this site and I hope we can change our society. I'm 17 years old and hopefully I have a bright future ahead of me.


Ok, I have had some trouble trying to find what beliefs I fall under, so I'm going to tell my story and maybe you could help out.

I live in a very conservative community. I was conservative for about the first 15.5 of the 17 years of my life. I began to change when I realized the problem of our educational system. It is seriously flawed(only requires memorization, different grading systems, not based on merit, etc.) and I can't stand it. I am also a very stingy person and it kills me whenever I buy something because I know I am helping someone else get rich. Those were the two main things that got me thinking. I know that education isn't really stressed as a problem here, but oh well.

So now on to my beliefs:

-I can't stand professional(and college!) sports. Obviously they(pro) are capitalist ventures, but I really can't stand the wages that the players make. College sports take away from the academics. Also, the fans just kill me about how much they "love" their teams. I think sports are fun to play, however.

-I want a democratic system that has about 20 highly highly qualified(not elected) people only to maintain everything, but never change anything. Everyone would vote on every issue from a computer or something. New technology will definitely help. This idea is difficult to explain, but you may understand what I'm trying to say. Basically, 100% people rule. No leader, no congress, no electoral college crap, just someone to run the system.

-I think everyone should be employed by the country, and no other companies should exist. Everyone will be required to do the same work with the same wage. I think we could establish 5 year plans similar to Stalin's or maybe yearly goals.
-The only problem with the above idea is it seems to favor imperialism(?).

-I'd like to eliminate the currency, It leads to greed-another major problem.

-I think current capitalism will get worse with the coming of industrial robotic machines. Less labor opportunities plus it will just make the wealthier wealthy because they won't have to pay labor. But then again, what's different now? Companies are paying pennies a day to peasants in whatever southeast Asia country you say. That is another problem with the country. The money is leaving our country(even if just a little at a time) at an astounding rate whenever we buy something.

-I don't think there are enough monopolistic rules and it is nearly impossible for a startup business to succeed unless its in a new field. Ex. Do you really think that someone will overtake Google one day?


-Lastly, I do not want to get screwed in life in basically the coin flip of capitalism.


Thanks, and I hope you can help.

[Q]

Hello everybody. I have read these forums for months now I have just now decided to join. I love this site and I hope we can change our society. I'm 17 years old and hopefully I have a bright future ahead of me.

Welcome :)


Ok, I have had some trouble trying to find what beliefs I fall under, so I'm going to tell my story and maybe you could help out.
As you might be aware, we have a Learning section, feel free to ask questions.


So now on to my beliefs:

-I can't stand professional(and college!) sports. Obviously they(pro) are capitalist ventures, but I really can't stand the wages that the players make. College sports take away from the academics. Also, the fans just kill me about how much they "love" their teams. I think sports are fun to play, however.
A healthy position I think. Sports should be about fun, not money.


-I want a democratic system that has about 20 highly highly qualified(not elected) people only to maintain everything, but never change anything. Everyone would vote on every issue from a computer or something. New technology will definitely help. This idea is difficult to explain, but you may understand what I'm trying to say. Basically, 100% people rule. No leader, no congress, no electoral college crap, just someone to run the system.
This sounds somewhat akin to technocracy. I ask you though why you think it is necessary to have 20 (why 20?) "highly highly skilled" people in power. Can't society be managed by the community in a democratic fashion? Why separate the managing from the deciding?


-I think everyone should be employed by the country, and no other companies should exist. Everyone will be required to do the same work with the same wage. I think we could establish 5 year plans similar to Stalin's or maybe yearly goals.
-The only problem with the above idea is it seems to favor imperialism(?).
I agree with you if by "country" you mean community. Why do you think it favors imperialism?


-I'd like to eliminate the currency, It leads to greed-another major problem.
A moneyless society is a central aim of communism.


-I think current capitalism will get worse with the coming of industrial robotic machines. Less labor opportunities plus it will just make the wealthier wealthy because they won't have to pay labor. But then again, what's different now? Companies are paying pennies a day to peasants in whatever southeast Asia country you say. That is another problem with the country. The money is leaving our country(even if just a little at a time) at an astounding rate whenever we buy something.
I have problems with the last two sentences here. Capitalism is indeed an international system, countries in that system work much like large companies which are competing which eachother for hegemony. But I think it is incorrect to say that "money is leaving our country(even if just a little at a time) at an astounding rate whenever we buy something". The wealth is accumulated by the capitalist class, whether that is American or from some other country is irrelevant. A socialist alternative strives to abolish the individual nationstates and for global unification, thus uniting the world working class.


-I don't think there are enough monopolistic rules and it is nearly impossible for a startup business to succeed unless its in a new field. Ex. Do you really think that someone will overtake Google one day?
Monopolies come and go. Google didn't exist 15 years ago and it is impossible to say if it will exist 15 years from now. That said, I think monopolies are an economic progressive feature of capitalism as they make commodities universally available. As socialists we defend taking over these monopolies and put them under workers control and management in the frame of a planned economy.


-Lastly, I do not want to get screwed in life in basically the coin flip of capitalism.
Then you're doing good by joining the fight against the system! :)

[SeeBRFC]

Thank you for taking the time to read all that and give some feedback.


This sounds somewhat akin to technocracy. I ask you though why you think it is necessary to have 20 (why 20?) "highly highly skilled" people in power. Can't society be managed by the community in a democratic fashion? Why separate the managing from the deciding?

I just said a number in 20 that I think would be necessary to run the system. The group could post the new issues on the program or website or whatever. They wouldn't have any power of any sort, and it would be their job. I think this part will work itself out if we move towards the system, though.



I agree with you if by "country" you mean community. Why do you think it favors imperialism?


In order to make money for our country, I think we have to exploit other countries. We won't just give away things for free until the whole world has been changed. I don't mean like taking over other countries imperialism, but keeping the poor countries poor is more along the lines of what I'm trying to say.



I have problems with the last two sentences here. Capitalism is indeed an international system, countries in that system work much like large companies which are competing which eachother for hegemony. But I think it is incorrect to say that "money is leaving our country(even if just a little at a time) at an astounding rate whenever we buy something". The wealth is accumulated by the capitalist class, whether that is American or from some other country is irrelevant. A socialist alternative strives to abolish the individual nationstates and for global unification, thus uniting the world working class.

In the current system though, the money is going to the workers of other countries rather than our own. What I forgot about is that just because it goes to other country's workers doesn't mean that they will still not buy our products. However, the money will not be put back in the country except the executives and whatnots of a company. I guess my original comment was more along the lines of the present, but your response dealt with how it will be. I could be wrong, but I think paying other countries to do labor hurts our economy, even if it is just to make a capitalist buck.


Monopolies come and go. Google didn't exist 15 years ago and it is impossible to say if it will exist 15 years from now. That said, I think monopolies are an economic progressive feature of capitalism as they make commodities universally available. As socialists we defend taking over these monopolies and put them under workers control and management in the frame of a planned economy.

You make a great point here. I guess I've never thought of that.



Thank you so much for your response.
I know I am missing a ton of other stuff, but that was what came to my mind.

[Q]

In order to make money for our country, I think we have to exploit other countries. We won't just give away things for free until the whole world has been changed. I don't mean like taking over other countries imperialism, but keeping the poor countries poor is more along the lines of what I'm trying to say.
This is how capitalism operates: Keeping poor countries poor in the capitalist state system. Why do you think this is necessary?

Also, wealth is created by force of labour. The central question for socialists is who gets control over the surplus value: The capitalists (and thus a parasitic elite) or the working class (and thus society)?


In the current system though, the money is going to the workers of other countries rather than our own. What I forgot about is that just because it goes to other country's workers doesn't mean that they will still not buy our products. However, the money will not be put back in the country except the executives and whatnots of a company. I guess my original comment was more along the lines of the present, but your response dealt with how it will be. I could be wrong, but I think paying other countries to do labor hurts our economy, even if it is just to make a capitalist buck.
My main gripe is that you fundamentally defend a nationalist attitude. "Our money" is not going to the workers in Asia, sweatshop workers live on less than a Dollar a day! The wealth we create, the surplus value, is fundamentally controlled by the capitalists, not this or that national group of workers. This wrong view of how the economy works is also reflected I think in your idea that imperialism is "necessary".

Capitalism is a global entity, it has created the world working class. This is an economic reality. However, due to the development of capitalism this has not translated in the political reality, that is a global unification of nations. It is our task as socialists to strive for this unification and put forward an international working class alternative against international capitalism. These are our tasks for the present.

[Comrade_Stalin]

I began to change when I realized the problem of our educational system. It is seriously flawed(only requires memorization, different grading systems, not based on merit, etc.) and I can't stand it.

This is why I believe in projects, over test, as they show your ability to do real works. Projects are easy to grade if you are there for the student and hard, if you are there, because you couldn’t find a job anywhere else. It is easy to know why earned an A by the questions they ask and the time they put in. But it hard, to know if you are just there for a paycheck, and sit around looking at your computer or an book.




-I want a democratic system that has about 20 highly highly qualified(not elected) people only to maintain everything, but never change anything. Everyone would vote on every issue from a computer or something. New technology will definitely help. This idea is difficult to explain, but you may understand what I'm trying to say. Basically, 100% people rule. No leader, no congress, no electoral college crap, just someone to run the system.

You have good goals, just a problem with getting there. A quote from Joseph Stalin could explain why.

“It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.” – Joseph Stalin

The main problem is how do you stop hackers from casting more than one vote? Also how do you stop the people who count the votes from changing the results? Another problem is what issues are asked, and how they are asked. All one has to do is make sure that the issue is never asked about. No issue, no votes, no results. Also one could ask about the issue, in a way that makes in bias. Look at the how the conservative ask about the question about health care. “ Do you want we the people to run health care, or do you what the government to kill you?”, see what I mean?



20 highly highly qualified(not elected) people.

By the way this is about right. I modeled, what would it take, for Stalin to avoid the purges, and I found that it would take around, 20 qualified people.



-I think everyone should be employed by the country, and no other companies should exist. Everyone will be required to do the same work with the same wage. I think we could establish 5 year plans similar to Stalin's or maybe yearly goals.

Full employment is the goal communism, no matter who you follow.



-The only problem with the above idea is it seems to favor imperialism(?).

Stalin hated imperialism, because Lenin hated it.



-I'd like to eliminate the currency, It leads to greed-another major problem.

Yes, but then how would you pay a worker, for his/her work?



-I think current capitalism will get worse with the coming of industrial robotic machines. Less labor opportunities plus it will just make the wealthier wealthy because they won't have to pay labor. But then again, what's different now? Companies are paying pennies a day to peasants in whatever southeast Asia country you say. That is another problem with the country. The money is leaving our country(even if just a little at a time) at an astounding rate whenever we buy something.

Trust me, there is nothing cheaper, then human labor, when you have sky high unemployment.



-I don't think there are enough monopolistic rules and it is nearly impossible for a startup business to succeed unless its in a new field. Ex. Do you really think that someone will overtake Google one day?

I’m working on a model to explain why the capitalist like monopolies, but hate it, when the government becomes one itself.




-Lastly, I do not want to get screwed in life in basically the coin flip of capitalism.


Thanks, and I hope you can help.

You sound a lot like me, when I was young. You will start with something, like an Technocracy, then move to a Meritocracy, then move to being a communist, and finally you will follow one of the great communist leaders. If this sounds like you, or ever be like you, come and find me, and I will save you years on your life, trying to find out who and what to follow.