Faith based aid, Why not Marxist Leninist humanitarian group.

[José Gabriel Túpac Amaru]

I have always wondered why Marxists dont create a humanitarian/ aid distributing organisation, but instead of being made up of liberal bourgeois kids, or faith based middle class people, have one ran by first world workers who financially support the third world masses.
If you think about the working class, we can rebuild villages(builders,mechanics etc) we can heal and treat the ill (nurses, doctors), we can all contribute, and rather than doing it to make ourself feel good like most of the well to do people who go off to be the saviour for the blacks of africa, we can help because it is right.

Obviously in order to gain finance we would have to downplay and dum down our rhetoric, but once we were established we could wave the red flag.
No stalin pics or CCCP flags, we wouldnt want to scare everyone off, the media has portrayed our past leaders as tyrants, so openly waving banners just stunts our growth.

Obviously i and probably no one here could do this, why dont any socialists go about doing this, not only is it a duty of us in the first world to help our 3rd world brothers and sisters, but this would make marx and lenin human to a scared and brainwashed population, this would be better propoganda than having pictures of marx put into friends with product placement.

Sorry if im being a dreamer

Thoughts people.

[cyu]

Whether you consider them true leftists or not, Venezuela and Cuba are already doing their own versions of this. Also, there are already plenty of leftists in existing non-profit groups that do stuff like help the homeless (not to mention organize trade unions).



Obviously in order to gain finance we would have to downplay and dum down our rhetoric


Personally I think that would a sure way to make your organization toothless, prolong the reign of those who currently rule over everyone else, and a good way to waste your life thinking you're helping, but in the end, realizing that all you have are good memories, but no structural change to show for it.



No stalin pics or CCCP flags, we wouldnt want to scare everyone off, the media has portrayed our past leaders as tyrants, so openly waving banners just stunts our growth.


Personally I wouldn't have Stalin pics or CCCP flags regardless of their portrayal. And as an anarchist, it's not like I bow down at the altars of any past "leaders" either. =]

[dar8888]

Whether you consider them true leftists or not, Venezuela and Cuba are already doing their own versions of this.

Yeah, Comrade Fidel has been aiding numerous countries for years.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Funds are generally only available to groups who are ideologically bankrupt, Christians, liberals, environmentalists, etc. Marxist-Leninists would never be able to get their hands on the cash because nobody wants to be associated with that. There is no gap in the market to fill, plenty of aid agencies out there and they always need more money, starting a new one from the ground up would be a disaster.

[Lolshevik]

well. while not "marxist-leninist", there's the Red Star Society, which is (on paper anyway) a working peoples' aid and relief org. as of yet it is not very active, notwithstanding some good work that RSS people did in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina.

http://redstarsociety.com/index.html

[Kléber]

There is an American "Marxist" group that has focused almost entirely on charity endeavors for its organization and recruiting. It is a Stalinist group called the Provisional Communist Party (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Communist_Party) of the United States of America and it generally tries to keep its own existence a secret. Its primary front is NATLFED the "National Labor Federation" and its charity groups are the Eastern Service Workers Association and the Western Service Workers Association. Years ago, Giuliani seized a bunch of guns from their HQ in New York, but they are under new leadership now (the founder appears to have been a con man). I have heard a few people say the WSWA is a decent, honest charity organization. Everyone who has come into contact with the parent group, though, seems to say very nasty things about their organizational pratcices.

[革命者]

I think that by organising humanitarian aid you are wasting time on making capitalism look sustainable as long as we are generous enough to help them out if they happen to starve to death due to our over-production and modern slavery for exportation elsewhere. Not to mention us making their countries inhabitable by stealing their natural resources and then using them to get natural disasters their way.

It's a strange position to be in, and not very convincing either.

That's what I think.


Scotty

[Invincible Summer]

I have always wondered why Marxists dont create a humanitarian/ aid distributing organisation, but instead of being made up of liberal bourgeois kids, or faith based middle class people, have one ran by first world workers who financially support the third world masses.
If you think about the working class, we can rebuild villages(builders,mechanics etc) we can heal and treat the ill (nurses, doctors), we can all contribute, and rather than doing it to make ourself feel good like most of the well to do people who go off to be the saviour for the blacks of africa, we can help because it is right.



How can you differentiate between "we're doing it because it's right" and "we're doing it to feel good about ourselves?" It's very, very, very subjective.


Obviously i and probably no one here could do this, why dont any socialists go about doing this, not only is it a duty of us in the first world to help our 3rd world brothers and sisters, but this would make marx and lenin human to a scared and brainwashed population, this would be better propoganda than having pictures of marx put into friends with product placement.
.

That's a bit patronizing, don't you think? That they can't help themselves? While it's true they have fewer material resources as they are being raped by industrialized nations, I don't think radical leftists should have the mindset that the developing world needs "our" help. As the Maoist movement in Nepal shows, they can become radical on their own.

[José Gabriel Túpac Amaru]

Yeah, i know what you mean, but if a ML aid group became well known, when spokesmen went to africa and explain on video why the children are starving, if he said, until capitalism ends, these babies are going to starve, as long as YOU keep buying into the capitalist system these people have to be exploited, would raise huge awareness comparred to the shitty propoganda wing we have currently.

[José Gabriel Túpac Amaru]

How can you differentiate between "we're doing it because it's right" and "we're doing it to feel good about ourselves?" It's very, very, very subjective.



That's a bit patronizing, don't you think? That they can't help themselves? While it's true they have fewer material resources as they are being raped by industrialized nations, I don't think radical leftists should have the mindset that the developing world needs "our" help. As the Maoist movement in Nepal shows, they can become radical on their own.

Well, no most cant do it themself as they have been so raped by our governments that they cant rise without a helping hand, I dont think they would find it patronizing workers from the west want to help their struggle, did the IRA find it patronising the Americans (civilians) gave them money

[Chambered Word]

That's a bit patronizing, don't you think? That they can't help themselves?

After being fucked over by the world, no, some of them can't really help themselves. Are they going to refuse help from us? Will they feel patronized and offended, as opposed to feeling thankful and glad?

A socialist humanitarian group is obviously a good idea, but as pointed out previously we need funds to get it off the ground and money to keep it going.

I like the idea of starting small and helping out the homeless in our localities.

[José Gabriel Túpac Amaru]

Totally agree comrade lewis.

[pranabjyoti]

As a person from a third world country. I personally have another idea. Instead of charity organizations, I propose some kind of assistance group to individual enthusiasts, who have some good ideas but don't have sufficient funding to materialize it, specially in the scientific and technological field.
Most of our western comrades don't have any idea about how limited the chance higher education is limited in most third world countries and specially people from the poorer section from the poor and oppressed part of the society rarely have chance and time to study. But still, there are a good number of skilled and innovative people there who can contribute to the human race in a very good manner.

[Invincible Summer]

Well, no most cant do it themself as they have been so raped by our governments that they cant rise without a helping hand, I dont think they would find it patronizing workers from the west want to help their struggle, did the IRA find it patronising the Americans (civilians) gave them money

The IRA is hardly in a developing nation that everyone looks down upon.


After being fucked over by the world, no, some of them can't really help themselves. Are they going to refuse help from us? Will they feel patronized and offended, as opposed to feeling thankful and glad?

A socialist humanitarian group is obviously a good idea, but as pointed out previously we need funds to get it off the ground and money to keep it going.

I like the idea of starting small and helping out the homeless in our localities.

My point is that the OP's tone is reminiscent of the whole "benevolent first worlder coming to the rescue of the helpless third worlder" thing. Yes, it's true that some of these nations have very little ability to do anything except be super-exploited, but to suggest that they are totally helpless and lost without First-World guidance is patronizing.

[chegitz guevara]

I have always wondered why Marxists dont create a humanitarian/ aid distributing organisation,

Mainly because we don't have the money and no one is gonna give it to us. Also, NGOs tend to be non-profit, which means they can't make political statements. Those revolutionaries who have founded such NGOs, tend to be pulled right by the need to shut up in order to court funding.

Some former members of STORM helped found the Miami Workers Center, which is rather hostile to revolutionary organizing efforts down here, and is rather pro-Obama and the Democrats (though they seem to like the Revolutionary Work in Our Times effort that Solidarity, Freedom Road, and several other groups have been working on for a few years--which should tell you more about those groups than about MWC).

Something similar happened to the Panthers.

[Comrade Anarchist]

The reason why there are none made of workers is b/c the workers are to poor themselves to help others. Another thing is that authoritative marxism and leninism are about as far from humanitarianism as nazism.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

The reason why there are none made of workers is b/c the workers are to poor themselves to help others. Another thing is that authoritative marxism and leninism are about as far from humanitarianism as nazism.


What a moron.

[Muzk]

He's right. You should stop hailing Stalin, and point at the vanguard party. Maybe people will like you more.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

How do you know if i hail stalin

[Muzk]

You replied to his strawman argument with a flame. And you made me flame you. Now it's a chain. I already have like 4 warnings, leave me alone :(

[cyu]

The IRA is hardly in a developing nation that everyone looks down upon.

Actually, your post reminded me of the Black Panthers (funny how the mind works). Excerpts from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_Party#Survival_programs

The most famous and successful of their programs was the Free Breakfast for Children Program, initially run out of an Oakland church.

Other survival programs were free services such as clothing distribution, classes on politics and economics, free medical clinics, lessons on self-defense and first aid, transportation to upstate prisons for family members of inmates, an emergency-response ambulance program, drug and alcohol rehabilitation, and testing for sickle-cell disease.

Elaine Brown taught reading and writing to a group of 10 to 11 year olds deemed "uneducable" by the system. At the school children were given free busing; breakfast, lunch, and dinner; books and school supplies; children were taken to have medical checkups; and many children were given free clothes.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

right on bruva

[Orange Juche]

What a moron.

What a factually meaningful and debate invigorating retort!

[Chambered Word]

My point is that the OP's tone is reminiscent of the whole "benevolent first worlder coming to the rescue of the helpless third worlder" thing. Yes, it's true that some of these nations have very little ability to do anything except be super-exploited, but to suggest that they are totally helpless and lost without First-World guidance is patronizing.

Not everyone who thinks people living in Third World squalor deserve something to eat is 'patronizing'. Sure, there are ways they could help themselves, but it's not as simple as that. We'd do well to give our brothers and sisters some assistance.

[pranabjyoti]

Not everyone who thinks people living in Third World squalor deserve something to eat is 'patronizing'. Sure, there are ways they could help themselves, but it's not as simple as that. We'd do well to give our brothers and sisters some assistance.
I suggest better accumulate the money and do something more fruitful. As for example, make an website where we can submit our thoughts and innovative thinking and if possible, making simulation prototypes of the best of those ideas.
I want to know other peoples thoughts about my proposal.

[Robocommie]

This thread fails because people who are starving in the third world don't really care if they're getting help from liberal college kids or faith based missionaries or ardent socialist crusaders. They really just tend to appreciate another human being reaching out to help them.

[Robocommie]

I suggest better accumulate the money and do something more fruitful. As for example, make an website where we can submit our thoughts and innovative thinking and if possible, making simulation prototypes of the best of those ideas.
I want to know other peoples thoughts about my proposal.

How is that more fruitful? We already have a website where we can do that, it's called Revleft. The Left spends entirely too much time talking and thinking and theorizing, when people are starving.

[cyu]

don't really care if they're getting help from liberal college kids or faith based missionaries or ardent socialist crusaders


1. Give them food, teach them English.

2. Give them food, give them a religious book.

3. Give them food, give them weapons.

[Robocommie]

1. Give them food, teach them English.

2. Give them food, give them a religious book.

3. Give them food, give them weapons.

That's a pretty simplistic way of describing humanitarian relief efforts.

Firstly, there can be a legitimate demand for learning English in some foreign countries because it's become something of a lingua franca of political hegemony. Furthermore, it's ridiculous to suggest that the only thing liberal humanitarian organizations do, aside from hand out food, is "teach English."

Secondly, most of these regions that recieve aid from faith-based groups are in fact already ardently religious. There's a lot of Catholic groups on the ground in Latin America, helping regions that are in fact, devoutly Catholic. They've already GOT the Bible in their hand, but what they don't have is clean water and electricity.

And finally, introducing guns into an environment is not always a solution. Going into a foreign country and trying to turn villages of poor farmers into rebels can very quickly make you an enemy of the local government and invite crackdowns on those people you just armed, not to mention you may not have any idea how bringing violence into the situation could inflame local racial or cultural tensions.

[Das war einmal]

Christian charity is to maintain the status-quo.

[Robocommie]

Christian charity is to maintain the status-quo.

Absurd conspiracy theories. Plenty of charity groups are supported by working class people, and plenty of working class people work in them. A very good friend of mine spent a year working with the LaSallian volunteers and I assure you, he most certainly did NOT do it to "maintain the status quo." I know people who regularly go on faith-based trips to Central America to help out down there, and get the villagers things they need to make their day-to-day live more easy. After they spent time down there, and saw just what kind of hardship the campesinos get put through by the landowners, they came back a lot less confident in capitalism. My own father, in fact, came back convinced that what was needed was "someone to take charge and forcibly redistribute the land to the poor."

The bourgeoisie aren't all heartless beasts, and just because a charity program isn't going to work as a long term solution, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. To not alleviate people's suffering just because doing so won't fix the problem forever is fucking cold-hearted.

[AkirAmaruBolivar]

nO THE PEOPLE DOING IT ARENT TRYING TO Keep the status Quo byt the financers, the government are.
Like the alliance for peace thing the yankees did in latin america, they aleviated the poverty very slightly to stop the conditions for rebelion and to be seen as the good guys.
Well yankee imperialists, just because you help an old woman across the road dosent give you the right to go out and rape somebody else.

[pranabjyoti]

How is that more fruitful? We already have a website where we can do that, it's called Revleft. The Left spends entirely too much time talking and thinking and theorizing, when people are starving.
Very simple, I am talking about applied science and technology, not social science. If you can't see, I can show you a lot of good technological ideas on the net, which can have the power to change our world. But, those ideas need funding for their initial stage.

[Robocommie]

Very simple, I am talking about applied science and technology, not social science. If you can't see, I can show you a lot of good technological ideas on the net, which can have the power to change our world. But, those ideas need funding for their initial stage.

I'm not really opposed to that, but I don't think you'll have real success in widescale implementation until the means of production have been socialized. That said, I guess I see no reason not to try and set up a think tank of people who, like Jonas Salk, would be interested in coming up with non-profit scientific research to benefit mankind. But, the funding is going to be very hard to get.

[Robocommie]

nO THE PEOPLE DOING IT ARENT TRYING TO Keep the status Quo byt the financers, the government are.
Like the alliance for peace thing the yankees did in latin america, they aleviated the poverty very slightly to stop the conditions for rebelion and to be seen as the good guys.
Well yankee imperialists, just because you help an old woman across the road dosent give you the right to go out and rape somebody else.

Do you know what NGO stands for?

[Chambered Word]

Christian charity is to maintain the status-quo.

Every time we think about doing something like this, there's always some whiners who can't help themselves. "It ruins the conditions for revolution!" "If we give them food, they won't rebel!"

Some of you obviously couldn't give a fuck about people starving to death.

[pranabjyoti]

I'm not really opposed to that, but I don't think you'll have real success in widescale implementation until the means of production have been socialized. That said, I guess I see no reason not to try and set up a think tank of people who, like Jonas Salk, would be interested in coming up with non-profit scientific research to benefit mankind. But, the funding is going to be very hard to get.
In my opinion, the global warming and other curses of capitalism are sufficient to make the people of the world aware about that kind of technologies. Well, getting funding for full scale implementation is hard to get I know, but what about at least a small scale or simulation testing of those ideas, which at least can prove the scientific and technical feasibility of those ideas.
I DON'T THINK WE, THE MANKIND HAVE SUFFICIENT TIME TO WASTE. Kindly think of about another factor. If, the revolutionaries can come to power in any country, the most probable countries would be in the third world. This new technologies can then be enormously helpful to them. Otherwise, the revolutionary peoples of that country have to fight in two fronts, in the advancement of their country and the imperialist-reactionary counterrevolutionary attacks and sabotages. With those ideas, their task will be easier.

[SubcomandanteJames]

The idea of a Marxist-Leninist humanitarian group is valid enough. On the issue of whether or not it makes capitalism appear more sustainable than it truly is, and prolonging action against it, I think that if a stronger propaganda section existed that made very clear that such actions were necessary due to the failures of capitalism, then it could be an affective duplicitous action plan: gaining general support through deed, and then assuaging minds through pulling parallels between the actions of the group and the ideology behind it. I personally like the actions of the local anarchist FOOD NOT BOMBS (again on a purely local level), but something bigger like the suggested with a strong leftist promotion would be great. Especially because it retracts the concept of "tyrannical means" of collectivism from people's minds: these are people helping people. Nothing new in action, but a stronger connection to purpose.

[Das war einmal]

Absurd conspiracy theories. Plenty of charity groups are supported by working class people, and plenty of working class people work in them. A very good friend of mine spent a year working with the LaSallian volunteers and I assure you, he most certainly did NOT do it to "maintain the status quo." I know people who regularly go on faith-based trips to Central America to help out down there, and get the villagers things they need to make their day-to-day live more easy. After they spent time down there, and saw just what kind of hardship the campesinos get put through by the landowners, they came back a lot less confident in capitalism. My own father, in fact, came back convinced that what was needed was "someone to take charge and forcibly redistribute the land to the poor."

The bourgeoisie aren't all heartless beasts, and just because a charity program isn't going to work as a long term solution, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. To not alleviate people's suffering just because doing so won't fix the problem forever is fucking cold-hearted.


You're right of course, but charity is essentially set up as to maintain the status quo. Certainly the charity project launched by The Vatican. After some of those projects moved certain missionaries to take sides of the working class and the communist resistance, they canceled a lot of these projects.

[Robocommie]

You're right of course, but charity is essentially set up as to maintain the status quo. Certainly the charity project launched by The Vatican. After some of those projects moved certain missionaries to take sides of the working class and the communist resistance, they canceled a lot of these projects.

Liberation theology is not popular with the Vatican. But I think that's a combination of the conservative nature of the current Church leadership and the fact that the Church has become exceptionally wary about getting involed in any potentially violent political movements after hundreds of years of Church involvement in politics.

All debate and argument aside, I'd like to talk about what exactly is going on in Haiti right now. The Haitian prime minister recently stated there may very well be as many as 100,000 dead or more. We should seriously talk about what we here can do to help.

[cyu]

introducing guns into an environment is not always a solution. Going into a foreign country and trying to turn villages of poor farmers into rebels can very quickly make you an enemy of the local government and invite crackdowns on those people you just armed, not to mention you may not have any idea how bringing violence into the situation could inflame local racial or cultural tensions.

I'm betting these people wouldn't have minded having the ability to defend themselves:

"Wendy Molina, 32, was shot several times and played dead when one of the assassins pulled her hair, checking to see if anyone in the group was still alive. She was taken to the hospital and survived... those fearful for their lives cannot report to the police. Complaints they file, such as those of Santos and Walter, could soon become signatures to their own death letters." (http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/2278/1/)

"Local journalists have posted on the Internet pictures and accounts of snipers shooting at indigenous protesters and of police beating and killing men, women and children. Amazon Watch cited in their press release Monday several sources reporting on police officers disposing of protesters' bodies as well as detaining hundreds more in unknown locations, some of whom have been injured." (http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/803)

[Lodestar]

Yeah, Comrade Fidel has been aiding numerous countries for years.

A fact that is constantly, intentionally ignored by the mainstream media in the capitalist world.