Left influenced army:

[cleef]

I remember reading somewhere that the bloods and crips use the U.S army for their own purposes, attaining weapons, gaining military experience to train other members, attracting new members to their side, flooding the armed forces with people of their own ideology etc.

Is this a tactic that could be put into force by the left?
Surely an influence could be made with that many people in it?

[RED DAVE]

During WWI, the Bolsheviks infiltrated the Russian army and provoked mass desertions. Eventually, they were able to win whole units over to the Reds. Trotsky, as I recall, discusses this in his History of the Russian Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/). This is entirely different from the tactics of the street gangs, who are, at best, pre-political and who do not use their presence in the army or their weapons for political purposes.

Please, no romanticism of the Crips and Bloods.

RED DAVE

[The Idler]

During WWI, the Bolsheviks infiltrated the Russian army and provoked mass desertions. Eventually, they were able to win whole units over to the Reds. Trotsky, as I recall, discusses this in his History of the Russian Revolution (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1930/hrr/). This is entirely different from the tactics of the street gangs, who are, at best, pre-political and who do not use their presence in the army or their weapons for political purposes.

Please, no romanticism of the Crips and Bloods.

RED DAVE
To be fair I don't think the OP is trying to romanticise the Crips and the Bloods.

[Robocommie]

I think he's just asking whether Reds could go to the Army to learn how to fight, learn the US Army military doctrine, so that they could come back and pass on their military education to other Leftists. It's something I've wondered before.

[Tablo]

Something I have been wondering too. It would be nice to visit some leftist military training camps. I have always wanted that type of thing, but I obviously would not want to join the US Military or pay some private for-profit thing to get training.

[Drace]

The left is not a gang.
The French peasants overthrow feudalism with pitches and forks. We don't need physical training, our strength lies in the numbers.

[Nolan]

The left is not a gang.
The French peasants overthrow feudalism with pitches and forks. We don't need physical training, our strength lies in the numbers.

Yes, pitchforks are an extremely effective anti-tank weapon. I even hear they may have some Anti-Aircraft ability.

[The Ben G]

Yes, pitchforks are an extremely effective anti-tank weapon. I even hear they may have some Anti-Aircraft ability.

:D

[Commiechu]

This is an interesting idea, I do believe that there is evidence that many White Nationalist groups are using this practice to gain weapons as well as to spread their hateful message, we of course are not brainwashers so it makes things problematic.

[RED DAVE]

Comrades, I think you have missed my point. The Bolsheviks were able, due to th3eir revolutionary propaganda, and to the presence of party members and other leftists in the army to win over army units to the revolutionary cause. The presence of Bolsheviks and others inside the army was for the purpose of recruiting individual revolutionaries and winning over entire units to the revolutionary cause.

There is a beautiful scene (one of the few scenes worth watching) of this in the movie "Dr. Zhivago," where we see a group of freshly-trained troops headed to the front, in their brand-new uniforms, led by their officers. They encounter a huge number of deserters, many wounded, filthy , exhausted.

As the two groups pass through each others, we hear the conversations between the two groups: the deserters, its unclear if they have organized leadership, urging the new troops to desert, asserting that they will protect them from their officers, etc., using revolutionary slogans or just exhorting the new troops not to go to their deaths. Finaay, when the two groups have passed by each other, most of the new troops have deserted.

Finally, we see a Tsarist officer curing out the new troops: calling them cowards and lazy bastards, etc. Suddenly, we realize that we are looking at the officer over the shoulder of a soldier. He slowly lifts his rifle, takes aim and shoots the officer.

That's what I'm talking about! This business of leftists taking military training or learning to use guns, etc., is adventurism.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

If you live in the US, and in the right state, the gun laws are quite laxed. Semi-auto AKs from Romania are easy to come by, perhaps now as cheap as $250, maybe less if you buy it private sale. SKS carbines are even cheaper. This is ALL legal(but again, verify with your state). Moreover, the government allows right-wing anti-government nuts to have militia training camps while they constantly rant and rave about how their about to overthrow the government and assassinate government officials. In fact militias have been connected to literally thousands of incidents of harassment of government workers, bogus liens, counterfeiting operations, kidnapping, theft, possession of illegal weapons, and much more. After all this we have still yet to see any government action against them. So if a left-wing group engages in some similar training WITHOUT doing all that bullshit, they should be able to avoid too much unwanted attention. And if they do so and DO attract to much attention then we have solid evidence of the US government cracking down on leftists while ignoring a domestic terrorist movement that has been responsible for hundreds of deaths throughout the last few decades.

Once you have some dedicated people together, try things like camping in the mountains, desert, cross country skiing- challenging things. You should make it difficult. Learn to ride horses as well- this is useful in the mountains, the Chechen rebels put horses to good use. As for combat training, aside from target shooting, there is paintball and airsoft- both have advantages and disadvantages. In the US there is plenty of access to military manuals and training material. Aside from official army and marine publications, look into the works of H. John Poole. Also look for a copy of Total Resistance by Major Von Dach of Switzerland. Lot of interesting things in that book. Don't forget first aid and land navigation.

For hand to hand combat think take Judo or Brazilian Jujitsu- just be aware that in real hand to hand combat you should resort to unarmed combat ONLY when there is absolutely nothing around which could be used as a weapon- no e-tool, no helmet, no stick, no knife, no rock, no stray cat- absolutely nothing. Judo and Jujitsu are useful because they teach you to fight on the ground, and they can teach you how to obtain a dominant position from which you can bash the enemy's head in with whatever blunt instrument you can grab, including that cat or your handy hardbound copy of Capital that you carry in your rucksack.

The best thing about all of this is that it is not only educational, it can be really fun as well, and you will be in great shape. If nothing else you will feel better physically and mentally.

[RED DAVE]

If you live in the US, and in the right state, the gun laws are quite laxed. Semi-auto AKs from Romania are easy to come by, perhaps now as cheap as $250, maybe less if you buy it private sale. SKS carbines are even cheaper. This is ALL legal(but again, verify with your state). Moreover, the government allows right-wing anti-government nuts to have militia training camps while they constantly rant and rave about how their about to overthrow the government and assassinate government officials. In fact militias have been connected to literally thousands of incidents of harassment of government workers, bogus liens, counterfeiting operations, kidnapping, theft, possession of illegal weapons, and much more. After all this we have still yet to see any government action against them. So if a left-wing group engages in some similar training WITHOUT doing all that bullshit, they should be able to avoid too much unwanted attention. And if they do so and DO attract to much attention then we have solid evidence of the US government cracking down on leftists while ignoring a domestic terrorist movement that has been responsible for hundreds of deaths throughout the last few decades.

Once you have some dedicated people together, try things like camping in the mountains, desert, cross country skiing- challenging things. You should make it difficult. Learn to ride horses as well- this is useful in the mountains, the Chechen rebels put horses to good use. As for combat training, aside from target shooting, there is paintball and airsoft- both have advantages and disadvantages. In the US there is plenty of access to military manuals and training material. Aside from official army and marine publications, look into the works of H. John Poole. Also look for a copy of Total Resistance by Major Von Dach of Switzerland. Lot of interesting things in that book. Don't forget first aid and land navigation.

For hand to hand combat think take Judo or Brazilian Jujitsu- just be aware that in real hand to hand combat you should resort to unarmed combat ONLY when there is absolutely nothing around which could be used as a weapon- no e-tool, no helmet, no stick, no knife, no rock, no stray cat- absolutely nothing. Judo and Jujitsu are useful because they teach you to fight on the ground, and they can teach you how to obtain a dominant position from which you can bash the enemy's head in with whatever blunt instrument you can grab, including that cat or your handy hardbound copy of Capital that you carry in your rucksack.

The best thing about all of this is that it is not only educational, it can be really fun as well, and you will be in great shape. If nothing else you will feel better physically and mentally.(emph added)

(1) Why would the bolded text be true? The government had been snooping on left-wing groups since the 1th Century. Why should it stop now?

(2) Some people read too many comic books.

(3) The above is adventurism in spades and has nothing to do with the actions of a marxists revolutionary party in an advanced industrial country like the US or, for that, matter, in a nonindustrial party.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

(emph added)

(1) Why would the bolded text be true? The government had been snooping on left-wing groups since the 1th Century. Why should it stop now?

I don't expect it to stop, but the government spends a lot of time dealing with militias and organizations that are actively engaged in criminal activity.



(2) Some people read too many comic books.

If you can explain what is unrealistic about anything I have written there, please do so. I served in the US army myself and read many of the publications I refer to, and have had the opportunity to converse with veterans of various armies from several different countries. I do not pull this stuff out of my ass you know.




(3) The above is adventurism in spades and has nothing to do with the actions of a marxists revolutionary party in an advanced industrial country like the US or, for that, matter, in a nonindustrial party.

RED DAVE

Right, revolutionaries don't need to know anything about fighting. We'll just hit those brainwashed American soldiers with our wonderful ideas, and they'll join us!!! Did it ever occur to you that the conditions in which a US soldier lives, even now, are at least 100 times better than those of Russian Imperial soldiers in 1917, not to mention the fact that they are volunteers and not conscripts. I can say from personal experience that aside from the deprivations of war, life in the army for an 18 year old can be a pretty sweet life if your alternative is working a shitty job at a local fast food joint.

[RED DAVE]

If you live in the US, and in the right state, the gun laws are quite laxed. Semi-auto AKs from Romania are easy to come by, perhaps now as cheap as $250, maybe less if you buy it private sale. SKS carbines are even cheaper. This is ALL legal(but again, verify with your state). Moreover, the government allows right-wing anti-government nuts to have militia training camps while they constantly rant and rave about how their about to overthrow the government and assassinate government officials. In fact militias have been connected to literally thousands of incidents of harassment of government workers, bogus liens, counterfeiting operations, kidnapping, theft, possession of illegal weapons, and much more. After all this we have still yet to see any government action against them. So if a left-wing group engages in some similar training WITHOUT doing all that bullshit, they should be able to avoid too much unwanted attention. And if they do so and DO attract to much attention then we have solid evidence of the US government cracking down on leftists while ignoring a domestic terrorist movement that has been responsible for hundreds of deaths throughout the last few decades.

Once you have some dedicated people together, try things like camping in the mountains, desert, cross country skiing- challenging things. You should make it difficult. Learn to ride horses as well- this is useful in the mountains, the Chechen rebels put horses to good use. As for combat training, aside from target shooting, there is paintball and airsoft- both have advantages and disadvantages. In the US there is plenty of access to military manuals and training material. Aside from official army and marine publications, look into the works of H. John Poole. Also look for a copy of Total Resistance by Major Von Dach of Switzerland. Lot of interesting things in that book. Don't forget first aid and land navigation.

For hand to hand combat think take Judo or Brazilian Jujitsu- just be aware that in real hand to hand combat you should resort to unarmed combat ONLY when there is absolutely nothing around which could be used as a weapon- no e-tool, no helmet, no stick, no knife, no rock, no stray cat- absolutely nothing. Judo and Jujitsu are useful because they teach you to fight on the ground, and they can teach you how to obtain a dominant position from which you can bash the enemy's head in with whatever blunt instrument you can grab, including that cat or your handy hardbound copy of Capital that you carry in your rucksack.

The best thing about all of this is that it is not only educational, it can be really fun as well, and you will be in great shape. If nothing else you will feel better physically and mentally.(emph added)


(1) Why would the bolded text be true? The government had been snooping on left-wing groups since the 1th Century. Why should it stop now?
I don't expect it to stop, but the government spends a lot of time dealing with militias and organizations that are actively engaged in criminal activity.So, what you are saying is that the government would be too busy to notice an organized training camp by a group of leftists? Remind me never to let you be the head of security in any group I belong to. The Feds would be up our asses in two seconds while you were saying that they won't notice us.

I once went to an educational camp, in the wilds of New Jersey, for a week. During that time, such violent topics were discussed as, the role of nonviolence in the civil rights movement and strike tactics. Turned out there were at least two government infiltrators there.


(2) Some people read too many comic books.
If you can explain what is unrealistic about anything I have written there, please do so. I served in the US army myself and read many of the publications I refer to, and have had the opportunity to converse with veterans of various armies from several different countries. I do not pull this stuff out of my ass you know.What is unrealistic is your putting forward individual and small-group military training, and training in personal combat, as a political strategy. What you are talking about is substitutionalism, in which a small "highly-trained" revolutionary group substitutes for the action of the masses. What you are proposing is exactly that. That's what's "unrealistic" about what you've written here.


(3) The above is adventurism in spades and has nothing to do with the actions of a marxists revolutionary party in an advanced industrial country like the US or, for that, matter, in a nonindustrial party.
Right, revolutionaries don't need to know anything about fighting. We'll just hit those brainwashed American soldiers with our wonderful ideas, and they'll join us!!! Did it ever occur to you that the conditions in which a US soldier lives, even now, are at least 100 times better than those of Russian Imperial soldiers in 1917, not to mention the fact that they are volunteers and not conscripts. I can say from personal experience that aside from the deprivations of war, life in the army for an 18 year old can be a pretty sweet life if your alternative is working a shitty job at a local fast food joint.What you are proposing, then, is armed combat between a trained revolutionary group and he army of, say, the United States inside the United States. What you are actually proposing, dude, is adventurism and suicide.

We had experience during Vietnam with large numbers of troops, of what became a volunteer army, being won over to radical, if not revolutionary, positions, without "picking up the gun," except in some people's fantasies. Your next step should be, logically, assassination and terrorism, which is refuted by all our experiences revolutionaries over a period of more than 150 years.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

(emph added)

So, what you are saying is that the government would be too busy to notice an organized training camp by a group of leftists? Remind me never to let you be the head of security in any group I belong to. The Feds would be up our asses in two seconds while you were saying that they won't notice us.

I once went to an educational camp, in the wilds of New Jersey, for a week. During that time, such violent topics were discussed as, the role of nonviolence in the civil rights movement and strike tactics. Turned out there were at least two government infiltrators there.

Obviously security precautions must be observed. But the fact is that as far as paramilitary training goes- most of the Feds' focus is on right-wing groups as this is far more widespread.



What is unrealistic is your putting forward individual and small-group military training, and training in personal combat, as a political strategy. What you are talking about is substitutionalism, in which a small "highly-trained" revolutionary group substitutes for the action of the masses. What you are proposing is exactly that. That's what's "unrealistic" about what you've written here.

No, I didn't propose that at all. I suggest you demand answers from your grade school teachers regarding their poor instruction in this skill.



What you are proposing, then, is armed combat between a trained revolutionary group and he army of, say, the United States inside the United States. What you are actually proposing, dude, is adventurism and suicide.

No, I am not proposing that. But revolution inherently involves insurgency and armed combat will occur at some time or another. Besides, a trained, militant left wing will at the very least give fascists and extremists paramilitaries reason to think twice about intimidating leftists with violence.



We had experience during Vietnam with large numbers of troops, of what became a volunteer army, being won over to radical, if not revolutionary, positions, without "picking up the gun," except in some people's fantasies.

RED DAVE

The majority of soldiers continued to follow orders. A few decades later, thanks to the elimination of the draft, plus many benefits, the "Vietnam syndrome was whipped", and US soldiers still enthusiastically kill whoever the ruling class tells them to.

[RED DAVE]

I will, simply, suggest that any political group that follows KS's program is either adventurist, crazy or led by agent provocateurs whose purpose is to defame the Left as a whole. This is not to call KS a government agent: not at all. However, this kind of adolescent comic-style fantasizing should be relegated to periods of REM sleep

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

I will, simply, suggest that any political group that follows KS's program is either adventurist, crazy or led by agent provocateurs whose purpose is to defame the Left as a whole. This is not to call KS a government agent: not at all. However, this kind of adolescent comic-style fantasizing should be relegated to periods of REM sleep

RED DAVE


Genius, I am not advancing any kind of program. The OP wanted to know about military training and others voiced objections to joining the US army, objections that in this current climate, I support. I merely proposed alternatives.

[RED DAVE]

I will, simply, suggest that any political group that follows KS's program is either adventurist, crazy or led by agent provocateurs whose purpose is to defame the Left as a whole. This is not to call KS a government agent: not at all. However, this kind of adolescent comic-style fantasizing should be relegated to periods of REM sleep.
Genius, I am not advancing any kind of program. The OP wanted to know about military training and others voiced objections to joining the US army, objections that in this current climate, I support. I merely proposed alternatives.Your proposals, subgenius, amount to a program of personal and small group military training for the purpose of preparing groups and/or individuals for confrontation with the military.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

Your proposals, subgenius, amount to a program of personal and small group military training for the purpose of preparing groups and/or individuals for confrontation with the military.

RED DAVE

Moron, a question was posed and I am answering it. So if you have a problem with "programs" take it up with the OP who was interested in this kind of thing in the first place. Otherwise maybe you can regale me with tales of those Marxist-Leninist revolutions that did not entail armed struggle. And even after the revolution, the population of a newly established workers state will need to be familiar with military tactics to defend itself from without as well.

[RED DAVE]

Your proposals, subgenius, amount to a program of personal and small group military training for the purpose of preparing groups and/or individuals for confrontation with the military.
MoronYou're talking about revolutionaries studying karate, and you call me a moron?
a question was posed and I am answering it. And your answer, in my opinion, is adventuristic and politically foolish.


And So if you have a problem with "programs" take it up with the OP who was interested in this kind of thing in the first place.And such interest, on the level that you couch it, should be discouraged.


Otherwise maybe you can regale me with tales of those Marxist-Leninist revolutions that did not entail armed struggle.I am concerned with revolution in an advanced industrial country. And that will not entail armed conflict between highly-trained members of a small group, or individuals, and the armed forces. Should that happen, the revolutionary group will be slaughtered. Think Che in Bolivia if you're given to that kind of fantasy.


And even after the revolution, the population of a newly established workers state will need to be familiar with military tactics to defend itself from without as well."The population of a newly established workers state" is not the same as a small revolutionary group. It might well be that the population of a workers state, involving millions of people, might decide to undertake military training, But that has nothing to do with individuals or small groups learning to ride horses, cross-country skiing or karate.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

You're talking about revolutionaries studying karate, and you call me a moron?

Yes I am calling you are moron, because you can't delineate between someone answering someone's questions and someone advancing a political program. Next time for your benefit, I will be sure to highlight whenever I am advancing some kind of political program. And for the record, I highly discourage anyone learning karate.



And your answer, in my opinion, is adventuristic and politically foolish.

What you call "adventurism" I call being practical; but that is beside the point since I was merely providing answers to the OP's question.




I am concerned with revolution in an advanced industrial country. And that will not entail armed conflict between highly-trained members of a small group, or individuals, and the armed forces. Should that happen, the revolutionary group will be slaughtered. Think Che in Bolivia if you're given to that kind of fantasy.

At some point, it WILL entail armed conflict, whether you like it or not. You are not going to vote your way into power, and you aren't going to convince the ruling class's army to lay down their arms with your witty forum posts.

Che in Bolivia is a very bad example for a number of reasons. The most obvious is how few people he had going in, but in general the problem was a lack of intel and organization. This was a problem with Che throughout his military career. He believed that you just needed a handful of revolutionaries with guns and the rest will follow. This of course, IS adventurism, and the fact is that they just got really lucky in Cuba. He came close to death many times there as well. A better model of resistance is what is known as Protracted People's War. This is often attributed to Mao, who gave the name and wrote extensively on the practice, but it was also carried out independently throughout occupied Europe. It begins with a long, drawn out organizational phase that takes place long before anyone ever fires a shot.



"The population of a newly established workers state" is not the same as a small revolutionary group. It might well be that the population of a workers state, involving millions of people, might decide to undertake military training, But that has nothing to do with individuals or small groups learning to ride horses, cross-country skiing or karate.

RED DAVE

Who is advocating revolution by small revolutionary groups? You are arguing against a strawman.

[RED DAVE]

The OP:


I remember reading somewhere that the bloods and crips use the U.S army for their own purposes, attaining weapons, gaining military experience to train other members, attracting new members to their side, flooding the armed forces with people of their own ideology etc.

Is this a tactic that could be put into force by the left?
Surely an influence could be made with that many people in it?From Kayser Soso's first post:


So if a left-wing group engages in some similar training WITHOUT doing all that bullshit, they should be able to avoid too much unwanted attention..You are clearly proposing military training as part of the activities of a "left-wing group." That's called a program.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

T

You are clearly proposing military training as part of the activities of a "left-wing group." That's called a program.

RED DAVE

Yes apparently it's much better for revolutionaries to not know how to operate a weapon and instead be a bunch of 300lb forum jockeys who will win over their opponents with posts.

The more you argue the more you make an ass of yourself. Revolution entails armed insurgency, perhaps because you live in an advanced industrial country we can assume this stage is far off- but you will not avoid it anyhow. I by comparison live in a more unstable part of the world.

[ls]

Yes apparently it's much better for revolutionaries to not know how to operate a weapon and instead be a bunch of 300lb forum jockeys who will win over their opponents with posts.

The more you argue the more you make an ass of yourself. Revolution entails armed insurgency, perhaps because you live in an advanced industrial country we can assume this stage is far off- but you will not avoid it anyhow. I by comparison live in a more unstable part of the world.

Don't you support the KPRF?

[Chambered Word]

No, I am not proposing that. But revolution inherently involves insurgency and armed combat will occur at some time or another. Besides, a trained, militant left wing will at the very least give fascists and extremists paramilitaries reason to think twice about intimidating leftists with violence.

This. Now I know I'm young and will be accused of 'adventurism', but I think Kayser is right.

To quote Mao: "Political power comes from the barrel of a gun." Whether we see a revolution before we die or not, I think we should learn to defend ourselves and our comrades. Right-wing knuckle draggers will start thinking twice before attacking us and should we see a revolution or period of instability we'll be ready.

Like Kayser said, don't expect everybody to be won over by witty forum posts.


What you are talking about is substitutionalism, in which a small "highly-trained" revolutionary group substitutes for the action of the masses. What you are proposing is exactly that. That's what's "unrealistic" about what you've written here.

And who will make the masses act? The revolutionaries. Too bad if the revolutionaries are dead, right?


Yes apparently it's much better for revolutionaries to not know how to operate a weapon and instead be a bunch of 300lb forum jockeys who will win over their opponents with posts.

That sentence pretty much sums it up. If fascists led an uprising a month or two from now, how many of us would survive?


Judo and Jujitsu are useful because they teach you to fight on the ground, and they can teach you how to obtain a dominant position from which you can bash the enemy's head in with whatever blunt instrument you can grab, including that cat or your handy hardbound copy of Capital that you carry in your rucksack.

I'm going to rep you for that. :laugh:

[Kayser_Soso]

Don't you support the KPRF?

I have never supported the KPRF. In fact on this very forum I have given some examples of their rampant nationalism. I don't really see what this has to do with the subject.

[Leo]

Keyser Solo, the details of armed struggle is not something you should go on about online, or in public for that matter.

[Kayser_Soso]

Keyser Solo, the details of armed struggle is not something you should go on about online, or in public for that matter.

Who is going into details here? Hell, Total Resistance is actually sold publicly at many gunshows in the US and it is actually a manual of guerrilla warfare from Switzerland- totally legal to buy. So is Guerrilla Warfare by Che Guevara(available at any major bookstore in the US) and On Guerrilla Warfare by Mao(ditto).

[Leo]

Who is going into details here? Hell, Total Resistance is actually sold publicly at many gunshows in the US and it is actually a manual of guerrilla warfare from Switzerland- totally legal to buy. So is Guerrilla Warfare by Che Guevara(available at any major bookstore in the US) and On Guerrilla Warfare by Mao(ditto).Guevara and Mao are dead though, so no harm will come to them if their opinions about the details of armed struggle are public.

Anyone with a grain of seriousness doesn't talk about armed struggle in public like this. Had you been speaking like this to people who actually were involved with any sort of armed struggle in public, you would have immediately been branded an agent-provocateur.

[Kayser_Soso]

Guevara and Mao are dead though, so no harm will come to them if their opinions about the details of armed struggle are public.

Anyone with a grain of seriousness doesn't talk about armed struggle in public like this. Had you been speaking like this to people who actually were involved with any sort of armed struggle in public, you would have immediately been branded an agent-provocateur.


Obviously Red Dave is not the only individual dense as lead around here. The OP asked some questions, I provided answers. It's a foregone conclusion that any change of the system desired by the people on this board is not going to be implemented via legal means- that is under the current laws of their various states. And you totally missed the point about Mao and Che's books. The point is that in many countries it is entirely legal to print, buy, sell, and possess them.

[Leo]

I am not trying to make a political point, I was giving a verbal warning. You might be a macho idiot with a gun fetish who is willing to take stupid risks by bragging about how much you know about weaponry and how much you are into the armed struggle in public, but you aren't allowed to do this here. The warning on the DIY subforum, "No explosives, weapons, or drugs" also goes for the learning forum and all other forums. You have been warned.

[Kayser_Soso]

I am not trying to make a political point, I was giving a verbal warning. You might be a macho idiot with a gun fetish who is willing to take stupid risks by bragging about how much you know about weaponry and how much you are into the armed struggle in public, but you aren't allowed to do this here. The warning on the DIY subforum, "No explosives, weapons, or drugs" also goes for the learning forum and all other forums. You have been warned.

Why are answering somebody's questions "being a macho idiot with a gun fetish" or "bragging"? The individual asked a question, I give him advice. I didn't tell him how to do anything or encourage him to do anything.

I find all this amusing that on a site called "Revolutionary Left", where everyone is talking about smashing the system and replacing capitalism, one cannot even make even a passing reference at some practical aspects of actual revolution. Particularly when it is in response to someone's innocent question.

[RED DAVE]

Just as a quick point, KS says he belongs to the American Party of Labor (http://americanpartyoflabor.org/index.html). Neither in the Draft Program of this organization or in its Party Platform is there anything about armed insurrection, learning to ride horses, karate, guns, etc. There is a reference in their blog that they don't believe in a peaceful road to socialism, and that's cool. And there are some references to the armed proletariat. And lots of stuff about Enver Hoxha and Stalin.

And nothing about skiing. :D

RED DAVE

[Chambered Word]

How is anyone here being a macho idiot? It's stupid and macho to learn to defend oneself now? It's not like we're planning a coup. There's nothing illegal about having the skills to stay alive if you are attacked.

If anyone is interested in Total Resistance, PM me.

[Kayser_Soso]

Just as a quick point, KS says he belongs to the American Party of Labor (http://americanpartyoflabor.org/index.html). Neither in the Draft Program of this organization or in its Party Platform is there anything about armed insurrection, learning to ride horses, karate, guns, etc. There is a reference in their blog that they don't believe in a peaceful road to socialism, and that's cool. And there are some references to the armed proletariat. And lots of stuff about Enver Hoxha and Stalin.

And nothing about skiing. :D

RED DAVE

There's nothing in the Draft program or Party platform about the benefits of eating breakfast every morning and trying to eat 5 portions of fruits and vegetables every day.

Please, continue making an ass of yourself, it's hilarious.


PS- Just for fun, maybe one of the space cadets here can highlight the activity I mentioned which is illegal in the US.

[RED DAVE]

PS- Just for fun, maybe one of the space cadets here can highlight the activity I mentioned which is illegal in the US.We are not talking about illegal activities. We are talking about activities that would bring the Feds on your ass pronto. Also, we are talking about whether activities you suggest are meaningful for a marxist indindividual or a group.

By the way, i find it fascinating that not only did you not mention horses, skiing, or breakfast cereal in your program or platform, you didn't mention unions beyond a bare reference to the right to organize.

RED DAVE

[Kayser_Soso]

We are not talking about illegal activities. We are talking about activities that would bring the Feds on your ass pronto. Also, we are talking about whether activities you suggest are meaningful for a marxist indindividual or a group.

Maybe that's what YOU are talking about but last time I checked I was answering a dude's questions. Also I highly doubt that any of the activities I mentioned would get the feds on your ass. Owning arms in the US is legal, and I advised the reader to verify their state's laws on the subject. Reading books and buying controversial books is legal, and it does not attract the kind of attention you think. Yes, we are all aware that the PATRIOT act crowd tried to get rights to track peoples' book purchases and library records but this attempt failed miserably. If survival skills attract fed attention the Boy Scouts are in serious trouble.



By the way, i find it fascinating that not only did you not mention horses, skiing, or breakfast cereal in your program or platform, you didn't mention unions beyond a bare reference to the right to organize.

RED DAVE

Oh but there are more glaring omissions! For example, it does not say what the unions should call themselves, or what they should put on their signs during strikes, what the signs should be made of, the dimensions of the signs, whether banners should be used in connection with signs, what should be worn to negotiations, what refreshments, if any, should be present at union meetings, whether or not strikers should wear hats, be hatless, or wear hats based on individual choice, an MANY MANY other pertinent issues!!!

[Atlanta]

I don't think the tactic used in Russia during world war I would work in a volunteer army even if a section of that army was made up of people that joined because of poor economic conditions.

Ksoso I think is discribing the need to rely on revolutionary organization rather than imperialist military training.

[9x19mm]

The left is not a gang.
The French peasants overthrow feudalism with pitches and forks. We don't need physical training, our strength lies in the numbers.


Fascists around the world have their own "training camps", ive seen some videos of them [Ones in Russia at least].

And pitchforks wont do anything to teargas or rubber bullets. Of course if you were planning on throwing them we might be able to accidentaly hit our own guys.

[Kayser_Soso]

Fascists around the world have their own "training camps", ive seen some videos of them [Ones in Russia at least].

And pitchforks wont do anything to teargas or rubber bullets. Of course if you were planning on throwing them we might be able to accidentaly hit our own guys.

Whoa!! Careful there now. This preliminary draft program you are advancing here is woefully inadequate and wrong. And as your username is a popular pistol caliber, it could be construed that you are advocating shooting people, and by extension sedition!!! Also because you included the length of the caliber, you now have a "gun fetish" bestowed upon you. Welcome to the club.

[ellipsis]

The right, including neo-nazis are trying to recruit iraq and a-stan vets right now.

I personally just get non-weapon gear and intel from a soldier buddy, who def doesn't know that I post his advice on my blog.

[9x19mm]

The right, including neo-nazis are trying to recruit iraq and a-stan vets right now.

I personally just get non-weapon gear and intel from a soldier buddy, who def doesn't know that I post his advice on my blog.


Really? Thats pretty interesting.



Whoa!! Careful there now. This preliminary draft program you are advancing here is woefully inadequate and wrong. And as your username is a popular pistol caliber, it could be construed that you are advocating shooting people, and by extension sedition!!! Also because you included the length of the caliber, you now have a "gun fetish" bestowed upon you. Welcome to the club.
What?

[Kayser_Soso]

Really? Thats pretty interesting.



What?

Just joking with you there.

[9x19mm]

Just joking with you there.

Oh good, I was thinking about something else but I guess its not needed now.

[the last donut of the night]

Why are we discussing the use of weaponry in the US as of now? The US is not Nepal or India. The left here is abysmally weak. Armed revolution is very far off -- probably by 50 years, at least.

I understand that the discussion is all theoretical, of course, but I can't help thinking why we are focusing on such a worthless topic (at least for now). Does it not suit us better if we discuss more recent and palpable matters?

I know, we all become giddy with revolutionary fervor when we talk about fighting. However, the time has not come. Also, as Leo pointed out, we are always being observed by the state, so it's not too smart to talk about using weaponry. It can endanger you and your comrades.

[Kayser_Soso]

Why are we discussing the use of weaponry in the US as of now? The US is not Nepal or India. The left here is abysmally weak. Armed revolution is very far off -- probably by 50 years, at least.

I understand that the discussion is all theoretical, of course, but I can't help thinking why we are focusing on such a worthless topic (at least for now). Does it not suit us better if we discuss more recent and palpable matters?

I know, we all become giddy with revolutionary fervor when we talk about fighting. However, the time has not come. Also, as Leo pointed out, we are always being observed by the state, so it's not too smart to talk about using weaponry. It can endanger you and your comrades.

I agree that it is way off in the future, but as I repeatedly said, someone asked a question and I just provided some answers based on experience and acquired knowledge. Nothing I mentioned is even remotely illegal. Believe me, this pales in comparison to what the jackasses over at Stormfront discuss on a daily basis. Not to mention that people with ties to Stormfront have actually put their theories into action with fatal results.

[rebelmouse]

I think people are too far away each from other when they use internet, so even if they are for armed fight, they can't meet each other, so it is without sense to speak publicly about personal standpoint about armed fight.
but as anarchist, I must say that I would never limit people, warning about danger, from admin, is enough, but people must decide alone how much risk they will take in their life. nobody is stupid but we don't have everybody the same level of trying to avoid risk. some people take bigger risk, some people don't risk, it is individual decision.

[RED DAVE]

I agree that it is way off in the future, but as I repeatedly said, someone asked a question and I just provided some answers based on experience and acquired knowledge. Nothing I mentioned is even remotely illegal. Believe me, this pales in comparison to what the jackasses over at Stormfront discuss on a daily basis. Not to mention that people with ties to Stormfront have actually put their theories into action with fatal results.One more time, you miss the point. But since you think that Hoxha and Stalin are acceptable political mentors, that's not surprising.

When someone asks a question, and you supply an answer, that's called, in a marxist political universe, advocating program. By the way, since you call yourself a marxist-leninist, can you find a source where Lenin advocated military training for members of the Bolshevik Party or individual raining in the use of arms. Who knows, maybe he did? Show me.

RED DAVE

[ls]

I have never supported the KPRF. In fact on this very forum I have given some examples of their rampant nationalism. I don't really see what this has to do with the subject.

You wrote "I by comparison live in a more unstable part of the world.", implying that an armed insurrection is quite likely in Russia, I assume you live there because you said you moved to Moscow.

Fair enough, I've never seen your criticisms of KPRF before but I'm glad you don't support them. What Russian communist organisation do you support out of curiosity and, do you think they are likely to gain enough mass support to establish a 'left army' in some years time?

[Kayser_Soso]

When someone asks a question, and you supply an answer, that's called, in a marxist political universe, advocating program. By the way, since you call yourself a marxist-leninist, can you find a source where Lenin advocated military training for members of the Bolshevik Party or individual raining in the use of arms. Who knows, maybe he did? Show me.

RED DAVE

No, when someone asks a question, and you supply an answer, that is called answering a fucking question. You certainly live in a bizarre world.

Furthermore, the Bolsheviks did organize their militant Red Guard organizations which formed the core of the Red Army after the seizure of power in 1917- but this is all irrelevant. Only an idiot would think you can make a revolution by copying Lenin's actions word for word. Lenin was not a prophet speaking truth revealed from the heavens. He was a man in a particular place and time.

So basically in your attempt to portray yourself as a "true" Marxist-Leninist you instead come off as a dogmatic moron. It's funny how you are so butt-hurt about my initial response to your idiotic allegations of "advancing a program" that you continuing posting, making yourself look ever more idiotic with each post, particularly this one.

[Kayser_Soso]

You wrote "I by comparison live in a more unstable part of the world.", implying that an armed insurrection is quite likely in Russia, I assume you live there because you said you moved to Moscow.

Fair enough, I've never seen your criticisms of KPRF before but I'm glad you don't support them. What Russian communist organisation do you support out of curiosity and, do you think they are likely to gain enough mass support to establish a 'left army' in some years time?

I don't support any organized Russian party because thus far many of them are rank with nationalism(which is not often apparent at first glance but when you talk to them personally), or a cult-like view of Stalin- supporting Stalin for all the wrong reasons. There are small organizations and presses which have some good people and I am always searching for those who are reliable, but for the moment I am not involved with any of them.

["Red Scum"]

The nazis are doing this as we speak. It'd make sense to even the playing field. Have a looky on scumfront if you need convincing.

[Chambered Word]

The nazis are doing this as we speak. It'd make sense to even the playing field. Have a looky on scumfront if you need convincing.

Exactly. I think we should just cut the hippie crap, there's nothing wrong or illegal to keep in shape and learn to defend yourself against attack.