What the fuck is wrong with these people?

[The Red Next Door]

Lately on the thread i have been seeing the most reactionary comments ever for a leftist site, why are you supporting a reactionary religious nut case who is fuck loaded. Use poor people for his sick twisted game of fundamentalist imperialism and i do not see how people can also support kim jong il, He is nothing but a Hennessey drinking spoiled brat who live a nice bourgeois life while the people of his country are starving their asses off. Don't let me get started on Mugabe and How the fuck asking for your for your right to get married because your sexuality is natural is anti working, Gays are just as more revolutionary as the straights. Please when come here have some sense, you know these jackasses starting make me thinking something. Supporting shitheads like them is reactionary, these people give the left a bad name. So let start giving ourselves a good name disconnect ourselves with these fakes

[Atlanta]

well in the homosexuality post I was half asleep and misstated what I meant so it did come out homophobic...and as far as Mugabe and the DPRK most people I think only supported them against imperialism

[The Red Next Door]

well in the homosexuality post I was half asleep and misstated what I meant so it did come out homophobic...and as far as Mugabe and the DPRK most people I think only supported them against imperialism
well sorry i called you an idiot.

[Cooler Reds Will Prevail]

I sense a flamewar.

[Ismail]

Don't let me get started on Mugabe and How the fuck asking for your for your right to get married because your sexuality is natural is anti workingI don't think anyone who supports Mugabe against British imperialism particularly cares much for his views on homosexuality; views of which are widespread across Africa (whether Christians as Mugabe is, or Islamic, etc.) and are not unique to him, and which under a government that bases itself upon scientific materialism (read: socialism) would probably evaporate fairly quickly in today's world.

Case in point: the Ugandan leader is a born-again Christian and has many ties with the Christian Right in the US. He pretty much wants to execute homosexuals and his Government has passed legislation relating to it. His main opposition within the country is the Lord's Resistance Army, which wants to form an openly theocratic and Christian government. In these situations there aren't many examples of non-homophobic Ugandan progressives, unless you count small liberal organizations that get mentioned on Democracy Now or something.

[Intelligitimate]

i do not see how people can also support kim jong il, He is nothing but a Hennessey drinking

This is a lie. The origin of this claim is a Japanese book wrote by someone who uses the pen name Kenji Fujimoto. His "memoirs" contain a bunch of outlandish shit, like him debating with Kim Jong-Il about building nuclear weapons, and is probably deliberate propaganda created by Japanese intelligence agencies, or just a money-making hoax.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe this is true. The publisher of the book, Fuso Publishing Inc., is ultra-nationalistic and publishes school books that deny Japanese atrocities in China and Korea.


Don't let me get started on Mugabe and How the fuck asking for your for your right to get married because your sexuality is natural is anti workingThe MDC and Tsvangirai don't give a fuck about gay people. They do, however, care about giving land back to a small minority of whites whose ancestors stole it to begin with.


Supporting shitheads like them is reactionaryYou're reactionary.

[dar8888]

and i do not see how people can also support kim jong il, He is nothing but a Hennessey drinking spoiled brat who live a nice bourgeois life while the people of his country are starving their asses off.

Kim Jong-il is no Kim Il-sung, but I do believe that the statements about him are nothing but imperialist propaganda.

[Davie zepeda]

I'd like to say something , Eldridge cleaver said the same thing to Huey p newton labeling him a revisionist in the end newton died a revolutionary and Eldredge cleaver a born again christian and right wing revisionist those who want to destroy the movement are usually the most intellectual of the party, learn this lesson comrades because these moments will come in real time situations and it would be wise to note who is the infiltrator.

[Red Fist]

There is a discrepancy between words and deeds. many leaders and movements are talking about socialism, freedom and an anti-imperialism world. But actions are another matter.
If Mugabe speaks good for the gays or not, he is still guilty of several mass killings of his own countrymen and the opposition.
If kim jong il is a hennesey drinking alcoholic Talking about Communism, he is still a capitalist luxury whore.
Hugo Chavez talking about anti imperialism, socialism, and will even start the 5th International. But on the other hand, he supports people like Ahmadinejad and the Islamic government in Iran, which is responsible for mass killings of Communist political prisoners and oppression of the workers in iran,So why Chavez? they are killing the people who got the same socialism theories like youself.
Comrades, we'll need to judge people more by their actions and not just their words and theories. You can not just support Islamic groups just because they are anti imperialistic. In the theory, Marxism is based on atheism, Marx himself said that religion is opium for the people. why at all will you even think about supporting these groups like Hizbollah or Hamas, because they are against Israel?. We should support those who want socialism and Freedom. but not them who are against one country, Peoples Nationality or Religion.

[RadioRaheem84]

Hugo Chavez talking about anti imperialism, socialism, and will even start the 5th International. But on the other hand, he supports people like Ahmadinejad and the Islamic government in Iran, which is responsible for mass killings of Communist political prisoners and oppression of the workers in iran,So why Chavez? they are killing the people who got the same socialism theories like youself.

I never understood this about Chavez. He even outright harassed a journalist for questioning his ties with the Iranian regime. Apparently, Chavez defended the Iranian regime and Ahmadinejad. I know it's probably due to his affiliation in OPEC but still, they don't need to play oil politics like the US and the House of Saud.

[ComradeRed22'91]

There is a discrepancy between words and deeds. many leaders and movements are talking about socialism, freedom and an anti-imperialism world. But actions are another matter.
If Mugabe speaks good for the gays or not, he is still guilty of several mass killings of his own countrymen and the opposition.
If kim jong il is a hennesey drinking alcoholic Talking about Communism, he is still a capitalist luxury whore.
Hugo Chavez talking about anti imperialism, socialism, and will even start the 5th International. But on the other hand, he supports people like Ahmadinejad and the Islamic government in Iran, which is responsible for mass killings of Communist political prisoners and oppression of the workers in iran,So why Chavez? they are killing the people who got the same socialism theories like youself.
Comrades, we'll need to judge people more by their actions and not just their words and theories. You can not just support Islamic groups just because they are anti imperialistic. In the theory, Marxism is based on atheism, Marx himself said that religion is opium for the people. why at all will you even think about supporting these groups like Hizbollah or Hamas, because they are against Israel?. We should support those who want socialism and Freedom. but not them who are against one country, Peoples Nationality or Religion.



i am neutral to Chavez, but i will say that perhaps this is due to the fact that a percieved 'rogue state' such as them needs as many friends as they can get. Diplomacy and leftist thinking can diverge at some point.

[h9socialist]

The truth be told, it's kinda hard to locate a consistent role model these days. Stick with Fidel!

[dar8888]

The truth be told, it's kinda hard to locate a consistent role model these days. Stick with Fidel!

I agree.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

i am neutral to Chavez, but i will say that perhaps this is due to the fact that a percieved 'rogue state' such as them needs as many friends as they can get. Diplomacy and leftist thinking can diverge at some point.
Yes, the interests of the ruling class of a particular nation-state will usually diverge from the interests of the working class quite sharply.

[Chambered Word]

The Stalin/Kim Jong-il worship here really shits me sometimes.

[RadioRaheem84]

Originally Posted by ComradeRed22'91 http://www.revleft.com/vb/../revleft/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.revleft.com/vb/../showthread.php?p=1643004#post1643004)
i am neutral to Chavez, but i will say that perhaps this is due to the fact that a percieved 'rogue state' such as them needs as many friends as they can get. Diplomacy and leftist thinking can diverge at some point.

It has more to do with their membership in OPEC. Oil politics. Yet, at the same time I haven't seen Chavez get too comfy with the House of Saud.

The major problem I have with Chavez is that he won't keep his mouth shut and this hurts his movement. He says some pretty banal things. He focuses too much on attacking imperialists verbally than actually focusing on promoting his policies abroad and informing people as to whats actually going on in Venezuela.

[FSL]

The major problem I have with Chavez is that he won't keep his mouth shut and this hurts his movement. He says some pretty banal things. He focuses too much on attacking imperialists verbally than actually focusing on promoting his policies abroad and informing people as to whats actually going on in Venezuela.


I believe that's him exporting the revolution. Actually having one seems not important for now.

For example, Venezuela shuts down state factories because they're lacking electricity. You can't really go abroad and promote that.

[The Red Next Door]

This is a lie. The origin of this claim is a Japanese book wrote by someone who uses the pen name Kenji Fujimoto. His "memoirs" contain a bunch of outlandish shit, like him debating with Kim Jong-Il about building nuclear weapons, and is probably deliberate propaganda created by Japanese intelligence agencies, or just a money-making hoax.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe this is true. The publisher of the book, Fuso Publishing Inc., is ultra-nationalistic and publishes school books that deny Japanese atrocities in China and Korea.

The MDC and Tsvangirai don't give a fuck about gay people. They do, however, care about giving land back to a small minority of whites whose ancestors stole it to begin with.
I support people by doing good deeds not just because they have the same views as me.
You're reactionary.
I support people by their actions not because they have the same view as me.

[dar8888]

I support people by their actions not because they have the same view as me.

But how much of what we "know" about foreign leaders is accurate?

[Red Fist]

But how much of what we "know" about foreign leaders is accurate?

We can never know with 100 percent. There will always be some media and organizations who are with them and someone who is against. Sometimes they publish the truth and sometimes lies that will be a strategy in the battle as they struggle ( I dont say everybody do, but some do it). What you could do for one example, is that you listen to the people and wokers who live in the country and have knowledge of the everyday life. Has the country been better since the leader came to power, or has it been more oppressed? and can they provide examples and evidence?. In countries such as North Korea and China may be hard to find these woker/people because the country is officially a communist regime, but in most cases has proven to be capitalist. These people are hard to find because they can not call themselves communist party of china or peoples socialist movement since the government already is "socialist". One is forced to investigate individuals and organizations who have similar interests as your own or your organization and then give you the information you need. But if you had the time and money you could travel to that country to research and living among the workers themselves to see its condition. but mabey you got other things to do with your time. :D

[José Gabriel Túpac Amaru]

theyre not ginger, so therfor, they are bastyards

[RadioRaheem84]

I believe that's him exporting the revolution. Actually having one seems not important for now.

For example, Venezuela shuts down state factories because they're lacking electricity. You can't really go abroad and promote that.

OOH. So much for top-down socialism.

[dar8888]

We can never know with 100 percent. There will always be some media and organizations who are with them and someone who is against. Sometimes they publish the truth and sometimes lies that will be a strategy in the battle as they struggle ( I dont say everybody do, but some do it). What you could do for one example, is that you listen to the people and wokers who live in the country and have knowledge of the everyday life. Has the country been better since the leader came to power, or has it been more oppressed? and can they provide examples and evidence?. In countries such as North Korea and China may be hard to find these woker/people because the country is officially a communist regime, but in most cases has proven to be capitalist. These people are hard to find because they can not call themselves communist party of china or peoples socialist movement since the government already is "socialist". One is forced to investigate individuals and organizations who have similar interests as your own or your organization and then give you the information you need. But if you had the time and money you could travel to that country to research and living among the workers themselves to see its condition. but mabey you got other things to do with your time. :D

I can certainly agree with that!

However, it seems like a person would be hard pressed to find someone in China or North Korea that would be willing to talk so openly.

Despite my earlier post, I do not favour Kim Jong-Il. His Juche philosophy is not what I would call Marxist-Leninist. I agree that actions are important in making a determination about someone, but we in America must wade through tons of misinformation to get at the true actions undertaken by an "enemy" leader.

I don't have better things to do, but I certainly don't have the cash!:)

[IrishWorker]

Lately on the thread i have been seeing the most reactionary comments ever for a leftist site, why are you supporting a reactionary religious nut case who is fuck loaded. Use poor people for his sick twisted game of fundamentalist imperialism and i do not see how people can also support kim jong il, He is nothing but a Hennessey drinking spoiled brat who live a nice bourgeois life while the people of his country are starving their asses off. Don't let me get started on Mugabe and How the fuck asking for your for your right to get married because your sexuality is natural is anti working, Gays are just as more revolutionary as the straights. Please when come here have some sense, you know these jackasses starting make me thinking something. Supporting shitheads like them is reactionary, these people give the left a bad name. So let start giving ourselves a good name disconnect ourselves with these fakes

I certainly will not believe everything the western media say about countries like the DPRK PRC Cuba Venezuela Bolivia etc.
Although I know things aren’t perfect in these regimes I will never jump on the band wagon and take western media at face value they have a clear agenda to promote the New Imperialism of the west.
Of course things for citizens in places like the DPRK are tough but it is not the sole fault of the regime as international trade embargos enforced by the New Imperialist powers go along way to keeping these places like shit holes I don’t out right support these places but I will never make judgements solely on what I see on TV.
I am not surprised though at some of the trendy self obsessed egotist wankers on here taking CNN BBC and Sky news as gospel.

[ComradeRed22'91]

Yes, the interests of the ruling class of a particular nation-state will usually diverge from the interests of the working class quite sharply.

is it in the interest of the working class to be invaded like Grenada?

[The Red Next Door]

I certainly will not believe everything the western media say about countries like the DPRK PRC Cuba Venezuela Bolivia etc.
Although I know things aren’t perfect in these regimes I will never jump on the band wagon and take western media at face value they have a clear agenda to promote the New Imperialism of the west.
Of course things for citizens in places like the DPRK are tough but it is not the sole fault of the regime as international trade embargos enforced by the New Imperialist powers go along way to keeping these places like shit holes I don’t out right support these places but I will never make judgements solely on what I see on TV.
I am not surprised though at some of the trendy self obsessed egotist wankers on here taking CNN BBC and Sky news as gospel.
I don't watch those channels i get my news from libcom znet and motherjones and watch documentary that secretly flim in north korea.

[Abc]

theres no excuse for supporting DPRK, if things are great and its all just capitalist propaganda then why must tourists have to stay with the tour gide at all times, if things are great then why not let the foreignors see the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and go back to there home countrys to tell all about the happy people well fed and united under there glorius leader Kim Jong-il....because in real life the people are starving and brain washed beyond belief.
on a side note...they have there own fanclub (http://www.korea-dpr.com/membership.htm)!

[Axle]

theres no excuse for supporting DPRK, if things are great and its all just capitalist propaganda then why must tourists have to stay with the tour gide at all times, if things are great then why not let the foreignors see the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, and go back to there home countrys to tell all about the happy people well fed and united under there glorius leader Kim Jong-il....because in real life the people are starving and brain washed beyond belief.
on a side note...they have there own fanclub (http://www.korea-dpr.com/membership.htm)!

In defense of the DPRK, on top of all the Western propaganda, the country is relatively secretive, and whatever situation they've really got going on there will no doubt be negatively influenced by the economic sanctions of the West.

I'm sure its not a blessed worker's paradise and I really don't support Kim Jong Il or the government; but I've got a hard time believing the line that the DPRK is just a cold, grey, 1984-esque wasteland.


EDIT: IrishWorker said this better in post #24.

[rebelmouse]

I support human beings who are in danger to be killed by imperialists, I don't care if they are religious or if they are against Israel. they deal with their situation, who am I to judge them, from far away, when my ass is not under bombs? I can have my opinion about religion but I will not say: I will not support them because they are Muslims.
when you save someone anywhere, on the street, from the lake, etc, you don't ask him first: are you religious? if I can, of course, I would save all Muslims from American and European imperialism. and I would save all Africans from European colonialism, in the past, if I could.
the fact is that we don't succeed to stop killing of Muslims by soldiers from our countries, who do it in the name of profit for corporations, so, at least we can support victims, verbally, and hope we will find some way in the future to do something more than verbal support.

[leninpuncher]

But how much of what we "know" about foreign leaders is accurate?
you can see the water park in his back garden from google earth.

[leninpuncher]

In defense of the DPRK, on top of all the Western propaganda, the country is relatively secretive, and whatever situation they've really got going on there will no doubt be negatively influenced by the economic sanctions of the West.

I'm sure its not a blessed worker's paradise and I really don't support Kim Jong Il or the government; but I've got a hard time believing the line that the DPRK is just a cold, grey, 1984-esque wasteland.


EDIT: IrishWorker said this better in post #24.
There a good documentary on youtube, that shows a film crew being escorted around Pyongyang. They show mandatory open-air exercise sessions, loudspeakers waking whole cities up at the government designated wake-up time, and natives staring at the ground as the film crews pass by; because apparently execution is the punishment for meeting eyes with a foreigner. Interviews with confirmed ex-journalists and ex-cooks who reveal that Kim had special chefs and ingredients flown from all the corners of the world just to make him a nice pizza

Pyongyang if filled with half-build luxury hotels and sky-scrapers, which show that the country is effectively bankrupt. Not that Kim put building his water-park on hold until the country was back on it's feet.

[Axle]

There a good documentary on youtube, that shows a film crew being escorted around Pyongyang. They show mandatory open-air exercise sessions, loudspeakers waking whole cities up at the government designated wake-up time, and natives staring at the ground as the film crews pass by; because apparently execution is the punishment for meeting eyes with a foreigner. Interviews with confirmed ex-journalists and ex-cooks who reveal that Kim had special chefs and ingredients flown from all the corners of the world just to make him a nice pizza

Pyongyang if filled with half-build luxury hotels and sky-scrapers, which show that the country is effectively bankrupt. Not that Kim put building his water-park on hold until the country was back on it's feet.

Do you have a link to it?

[leninpuncher]

Do you have a link to it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6E3cShcVU

[IrishWorker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6E3cShcVU
I’ve seen this shit before this has to be the most one sided pro west piece of shit "documentary" I’ve ever seen.

Catch yourselves on taking this crap for fact.

I’m no big fan of the DPRK but even I can see this is Capitalist propaganda.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVBaIrIb-Kc&feature=channel

Put that in your pipe you New Imperialist Bastards.

[Ismail]

The DPRK is revisionist, but it does deserve to be defended against imperialism, and its foreign policy in regards to other nations that do not happen to be superpowers is progressive. (E.g. many African states had their armies and technicians trained by North Koreans in the 60's-80's)

The DPRK is mainly poor because it is isolated and because its landmass (mostly mountains) is not good as far as agriculture is concerned. Kim has, however, recognized that life isn't the best in the DPRK (http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Asia/Story/STIStory_475312.html). The government's answer, however, is to (as Enver Hoxha would put it) open up the country to the economic laws of capitalism by focusing on light industry (consumer goods and increasing exports) and possibly hinting at market reforms: "Local-industry factories should be operated at full capacity, and units, as many as possible, should launch a campaign to turn out more daily necessities favoured by the public." (See: http://www.korea-dpr.com/forum/?p=408)

So basically 2010 is apparently the year wherein the DPRK does whatever it can (regardless of ideology) to improve living standards.


on a side note...they have there own fanclub (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.korea-dpr.com/membership.htm)!That's the homepage of the Korean Friendship Association, which has ties with and is propagated by the DPRK Government and operates in just about every country. It's not so much of a "fanclub" as it is the international public relations organ of the DPRK. They organize "Juche study groups," among other things.

Edit: I hadn't seen this but I wanted to belatedly respond to it:

I'd like to say something , Eldridge cleaver said the same thing to Huey p newton labeling him a revisionist in the end newton died a revolutionary and Eldredge cleaver a born again christian and right wing revisionist those who want to destroy the movement are usually the most intellectual of the party, learn this lesson comrades because these moments will come in real time situations and it would be wise to note who is the infiltrator.The fact is that Cleaver had a more correct line. Cleaver stood for keeping the BPP a proletarian movement, whereas Newton took a pro-petty-bourgeois line. That Cleaver disassociated himself from Communism and went all over the place in the 80's and 90's doesn't really matter.

[leninpuncher]

I’ve seen this shit before this has to be the most one sided pro west piece of shit "documentary" I’ve ever seen.

Catch yourselves on taking this crap for fact.

I’m no big fan of the DPRK but even I can see this is Capitalist propaganda.


aVBaIrIb-Kc

Put that in your pipe you New Imperialist Bastards.

Ahahaha. Seriously?
They actually went inside North Korea and filmed all this stuff, you fucking idiot.

[IrishWorker]

Ahahaha. Seriously?
They actually went inside North Korea and filmed all this stuff, you fucking idiot.

I am certain that you never watched this documentary from an abjectionist point of view.

You had your tiny mind made up about the DPRK before you watched it and your pre conditioned cappie mind set took over.

I hope you are happy living in CNN BBC News FOX & Sky TVs sphere of influence because I for one am not and I will oppose the west’s spin and propaganda where ever it rears it ugly head.



Nobody on here is saying the DPRK is a utopia I realize changes have to be made but it is certainly NOT the hell hole the west makes it out to be.

Anyone can find shit on the Net to back up there arguments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9x4AyQ-is

[The Ben G]

You're reactionary.

Your really going to act like that?

[Chambered Word]

I'm sure its not a blessed worker's paradise and I really don't support Kim Jong Il or the government; but I've got a hard time believing the line that the DPRK is just a cold, grey, 1984-esque wasteland.


True. Give the Wikipedia article a read.

There's free education (the DPRK has a great literacy rate) and healthcare, but due to the economy there's hardly any food and the hospitals have gone to shit, apparently.

Once Kim Jong-il gives everyone more freedom and sorts his economic problems out, I'll have a lot of respect for him.

[scarletghoul]

The DPRK's economy has been doing pretty well recently. It's been growing at a few percent ever year, and 2009 was a particularly good year despite the global recession. This is because they still operate on a centrally planned socialist economic model so were not really affected too badly by the crisis in capitalism (unlike China).

http://www.nkeconwatch.com/ is a good website to check for regularly updated info on the North Korean economy.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

True. Give the Wikipedia article a read.

There's free education (the DPRK has a great literacy rate) and healthcare, but due to the economy there's hardly any food and the hospitals have gone to shit, apparently.

Once Kim Jong-il gives everyone more freedom and sorts his economic problems out, I'll have a lot of respect for him.
There's free healthcare in the UK and Canada and free education in Scotland. Hooray for the socialist workers' paradise of Scotland!