Happy new year to all Maoist-Third Worldists and our allies!

[AvanteRedGarde]

(http://monkeysmashesheaven.wordpress.com)
Our movement has made impressive gains in the past year. Maoist-Third Worldist cells aligned with Monkey Smashes Heaven (MSH) have increased in North America and in the rest of the world. The Revolutionary Anti-Imperialist Movement (RAIM) has expanded into more cities. Now, we have anti-imperialist activists operating under our banner in a handful of cities in the United States. What is ironic is that even with our correct analysis of the lack of revolutionary potential in the First World, we still manage to do more concrete work than many First Worldist organizations who babble incessantly about “mass line” yet have nothing to show for it. Our honest approach is beating their dishonest approach even on their First World turf. Part of this success can be attributed to the fact that our movement is a movement of intelligent leaders. Our movement was never a wacko cult or pyramid scheme posing as a revolutionary organization.

Our influence in the Third World has increased dramatically also. Our movement is transforming into a nationwide and worldwide movement. First Worldist revisionism has created a situation where “communism” is seen as a joke. First Worldism has undermined the ability of the proletariat to lead the anti-imperialist movement. It is imperative that we make our voice be heard on the world stage in order to break the back of revisionism. The wishy-washy days of the reactionary RIM are over. We must try to take advantage of this opportunity. There is no sitting on the sidelines. We will have none of the fence sitting and opportunism that characterizes the revisionist, fake Maoists.

We’ve published 455 articles, almost every single one is an original piece authored by our writers. Maoist-Third Worldist cells have opted not to follow the example of those whose blogs contain mostly republished materials. The Maoist-Third Worldist movement has the brain power capable of consistently producing high quality, original work. You won’t see us trolling for filler on Counterpunch or Monthly Review, for example.

We’ve made important gains on the ideological and agitational fronts. We’ve expanded our political economy, our global class analysis, with several important articles. We’ve expanded the understanding of capitalist restoration in China with groundbreaking historical work. We have continued our long tradition of film, literary, art, and culture criticism. We have continued our analysis of current events. And, our artists continue to produce groundbreaking videos and other art. Our work is unsurpassed.

Our expectations for next year are high. Some points to think about as we go into 2010:

1. Our movement will be restructuring over the next year. Our movement will be reorganized in a more coherent form. Maoist-Third Worldists should work on solidifying their organizations in anticipation of this. Those who are working on forming cells should try to accelerate their work. Those who want to be a part of this process need to contact MSH.

2. We will be moving toward reorganizing all Maoist-Third Worldist online work. As part of this, we don’t need any new Maoist-Third Worldist blogs unless those blogs have a specific purpose. For example, we would not object to a Maoist-Third Worldist blog aimed at the Indian masses. Also, RAIM or other niche blogs are OK since they serve specific purposes. In general, those wanting to do ideological and cadre organizational work should work with MSH for now. Send MSH a letter about membership.

3. At this point, those who are trying to organize RAIM or similar groups should get in touch with RAIM-Denver leadership. Even though it is important to pick up the pace of our work, we cannot sacrifice line. Right opportunism, watering down the Third Worldist line, is the most important danger in new RAIM groups. RAIM should not sound like Workers World Party.

4. All Maoist-Third Worldists should work to deepen their knowledge of the basics of Maoism-Third Worldism. People should familiarize themselves with the contributions of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. Everyone should re-familiarize themselves with our political economy and with our history of the Soviet Union and China. Ideology is a weapon, we have to keep ours sharp.

5. We need to be heard across the world. We need translations. If you are fluent in languages other than English, you need to step up and help us be heard. This is some of the most important work that needs to be done.

6. We need more people contributing. We need more people taking up writing. We need more monetary contributions to fund publishing and other projects over the
next year.

We carry a heavy burden. The task of regenerating the communist movement lies on our shoulders. Those of the “New Communist Movement,” those who have trafficked in “Maoism,” have misled people for far too long. As their relic of a movement fades from the scene, we will have many opportunities to be heard. We need to step up our work across the board to meet this challenge. New leaders need to come forward and lead. It will be an exciting year!

[#FF0000]

you are boring, why dont you contribute to the discussion instead of spamming us with your blog endlessly?

you sir, are boring.

He does contribute, I don't think it's his blog, and low-content/off topic posts like this are lame. Quit it. :(

[Sasha]

modesty is not one of your redeeming features huh...

[Ravachol]

Danyboy,
WTF R U talking about. The stuff I post is by far the most interesting and relevant on revleft. The rest is a circle jerk for effete, insular First Worldists.

Hah, you sure told us dirty 'First Worldist'. I care about class struggle, not an imaginary line like 'first vs third' world. A line that is a bourgois construct no less. :rolleyes:

[ls]

Our influence in the Third World has increased dramatically also.

Really?

[Sasha]

Really?

yup, logs show that their website had 3 visitors from africa and 9 from asia.

[ls]

Must mean the African proletariat are close to glorious MTWism then, revolution assured throughout Africa very soon.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Years starting in January and ending in December are an oppressive Eurocentric concept. Surely true Third Worldists should only recognise the Glorious Chinese New Year or something? I like the "effete" you throw in there, though. Damn those girlymen!

[bcbm]

so you got a few new members in your group, wrote some articles and expanded your brain power or something.... who cares?

[Pogue]

I trashed the more aggressive posts. Please keep this civil, if you find avanteredgarde so insulting argue him down, don't just throw insults. Same for you avanteredgarde. You have interesting politics but don't be insulting to other users please.

[danyboy27]

sorry didnt mean to offend nobody.

i really dont like third worldism, i just dont see what is the good thing in dividing the working class over the place they where born.

that the best recipies to stay close minded about other people and undermine our effort against the current system.

I really dont like that Demonization of all north americans and europeans.
We are not subhuman, we where just fucking lucky and a lot of us are trying to make a difference about our shit system.

I protested against the israeli offensive in lebannon a fews year ago, but eh, what do i know, i am only a KKKAnadian.

[Bud Struggle]

Our movement was never a wacko cult or pyramid scheme posing as a revolutionary organization.


OK. (I'm not on your case here--I'm just curious,) so how are you different than the mainstream (non-restricted) branches of Communism here on RevLeft?

Why do they think they have to restrict you?

What do you have to offer the world that Standard Marxists and Anarchists can't?

(I don't need essays--just a hint of what you are up to and why you are different.)

All the best--Bud.

[Robert]

I kind of feel for AvantRedGarde.

Capitalists and reformists dismiss mainline communists mainly because communism went awry (very badly awry) in China, the USSR, North Korea, etc., and now those very communists are disrespecting AvantRedGarde because he's out of "the mainstream" and only has a few members on his team. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

[ZeroNowhere]

Happy New Year, I guess?

[#FF0000]

I kind of feel for AvantRedGarde.

Capitalists and reformists dismiss mainline communists mainly because communism went awry (very badly awry) in China, the USSR, North Korea, etc., and now those very communists are disrespecting AvantRedGarde because he's out of "the mainstream" and only has a few members on his team. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

That's not it at all.

[Robert]

What is it then?

[Weezer]

How the Third-Worldist revolution going?

The little bourgeois dandy, racist revolution? Hmm?

[#FF0000]

What is it then?

He isn't disrespected because he's only got a few in his camp. It's because we all violently disagree with third worldism.

[AvanteRedGarde]

Bud. Thanks for the questions.

Maoism-Third Worldism is different than virtually all varieties of nominal socialism, communism and anarchism in that it proceeds from an honest interpretation of class in today's world.

Mao, in the first two sentences of Volume 1 of his Selected Works, asks, "Who are our enemies? Who are our friends?" These questions, though simple, are poignant and universal. Today, the way one answers these questions determines if they are a revisionist First Worldist or on the path of a genuine communist.

MTWists uphold that the principal contradiction is between imperialism and exploited nations. It is this dynamic which primarily defines history and revolutionary struggle. Unlike the typical 'leftist' dogma about a world-united working class, MTWist is drawn from an ongoing reality-based historical analysis. (It is really telling that Zinn's ''People's History of the US" spends all of a couple sentences on Japanese internment, for example) MTWist is scientific: it is explanatory and predictive.

Revleft is a circle jerk. It's a fantasy world where psuedo-revolutionaries go to reassure themselves that they're progressive. It's a bunch of people (mostly kids and young adults) talking to eachother about how progressive the First World 'working' class is on a internet message board. In reality, the First Worldist "revolutionaries" have no traction in the First World. The First Worldist 'revolutionary' 'left' is so non-supported, small and spatially separated that it is forced into little online enclaves, one of many in the 'post-modern' imperialist First World. The First Worldists of Revleft (virtually everyone here) do all this while claiming they represent the interest of the masses.

Revleft is a kind of world-creating and maintaining device for First Worldists. I imagine that many of the administrators and posters spend hours a day on Revleft. It is a significant part of their world, at this time. I, or anyone else, who infringes upon the natural order of the revleft-world is seen to be hostile. That is why I'm restricted.

[Bankotsu]

Do you support south-south cooperation against imperialism AvanteRedGarde?

I would like your views regarding BRIC, BASIC and IBSA blocs.

What is the position of Maoist Third Worldists on these blocs?

I supported the BRIC agenda of ending America's Financial-Military Empire and was restricted.

The Ending of America's Financial-Military Empire

http://www.counterpunch.org/hudson06152009.html

[AvanteRedGarde]

My own opinion is that in Russia, China, India and Brazil respectively, you have a situation whereby a single class of comprador bourgeoisie commands parts of the surplus value of an unusually large number of Third World workers. Generally, this has allowed for the greater accumulation of capital to this comprador class, in a way that would not be possible in a country such in smaller Third World countries.

Still in a subservient possition to Western imperialism, it is only natural that these groups would bloc up in order to gain more leverage. However, for the purposes of understanding revolutionary change both tactically and strategically, the primary contradiction is still between imperialism and exploited nations, and not between rival imperialist factions.

[Bankotsu]

USA is the main power propping up the current neoliberal imperialist system through control of WTO, IMF, World Bank; dollar reserve currency system and world wide deployment of military bases to enforce its dictates and interests.

My view is that BRIC can weaken or destroy this system, which is why I throw my complete support to BRIC.

I think to be pragmatic, BRIC is the only serious bloc powerful enough to weaken U.S power and usher in a multipolar new world order.

After Empire: The Birth of a Multipolar World

http://img.infibeam.com/img/0b702745/270/4/9781568584270.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/After-Empire-Birth-Multipolar-World/dp/156858427X


Globalization is a word used today, often without precision. If we use the word globalization to refer to the entire process of IMF and WTO-led neo-colonialism under the Dollar System, then it is a descriptive term.

It describes the creation of a global dollar imperium, a Pax Americana. Establishment critics of the IMF system such as Joseph Stiglitz, himself a former Clinton adviser and World Bank official, make accurate charges against the IMF.

They assume, however, that it is merely misguided policy that leads to the problems.

The entire IMF institution, along with the World Bank and WTO, however, have been deliberately developed to advance this globalization of the Dollar System, the second pillar of Pax Americana after the military power.

It is no mistaken policy, no result of bureaucratic blunders.

That is the crucial point to be understood.

The IMF exists to support the Dollar System.

http://www.serendipity.li/hr/imf_and_dollar_system.htm


De-Dollarization: Dismantling America’s Financial-Military Empire

http://www.michael-hudson.com/articles/globalism/090614De- (http://www.michael-hudson.com/articles/globalism/090614De-DollarizationDismantlingEmpire.html)

The Big Black Hole in the Dollar’s Future

http://www.a-w-i-p.com/index.php/2010/01/04/the-big-black-hole-in-the-dollara-8217-s

[AvanteRedGarde]

i really dont like third worldism, i just dont see what is the good thing in dividing the working class over the place they where born.

I think this point is worth criticizing, because it represents a very unscientific view.

(To begin, I want to start with an analogy. Jesus Christ conforms to a number of mythical archetypes. Christians explain the fact the the story of Jesus is similiar to many older 'pagan' deities by saying that Satan created these pagan myths in anticipation of the arrival of Christ. Obviously this is illogical. You're line of thinking follows a similiar line of thinking.)

A united global working class is an abstraction. It doesn't really exist. In the real world, you have the great antagonisms along national lines, hence Isreal vs Palestine, US vs and number of poor nations, etc and not these great 'class' conflicts within Israel and the US itself.

The question remains, why is this. Your view states that Third Worldists divide a 'unified working class.' This begs the questions, were there Third Worldists in the 1800's championing that wholesale slaughter of indigenous nations? Did Third Worldists convinced the early Amerikan masses that they stood over and above Black slaves? Today, is it MTWists hammering home the point that First Worlders are vastly better off than the Third World, or is this something that is plainly visible to most people?

Is it MTWists dividing the 'unified working class?' Or has MTWist simply adopted revolutionary ideology to conditions as they exist?


I protested against the israeli offensive in lebannon a fews year ago, but eh, what do i know, i am only a KKKAnadian.

You were part of an extreme minority. You should drop the First Worldism and get with MSH or RAIM.

[AvanteRedGarde]

My view is that BRIC can weaken or destroy this system, which is why I throw my complete support to BRIC.

I think to be pragmatic, BRIC is the only serious bloc powerful enough to weaken U.S power and usher in a multipolar new world order.

There could be a few positions on this. One is that intra-imperialistic conflicts leads directly to fascism and world war. While this in itself might help spur revolution, as revolutionaries, we champion proletarian* leadership and mass involvement as the lynchpin to progressive social revolution. Simply put, we should aim further than simply cheerleading for lesser imperialists within a normally 'harmonious' system.

*In this case, the term 'proletarian' excludes those who are part of the world's richest 20% (PPP), or virtually all of the First World.

[Bud Struggle]

MTWists uphold that the principal contradiction is between imperialism and exploited nations. It is this dynamic which primarily defines history and revolutionary struggle. Unlike the typical 'leftist' dogma about a world-united working class, MTWist is drawn from an ongoing reality-based historical analysis. (It is really telling that Zinn's ''People's History of the US" spends all of a couple sentences on Japanese internment, for example) MTWist is scientific: it is explanatory and predictive. So what you are saying (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that ALL First Worlders are part of the Imperialist power structure--not just the Bourgeose. So a working guy in some factory even though he might be considered here part of the Proletariat, is really part of the class that opresses the people in the Third World because he benefits from his country and the business that employs him's oppression of the Third World people.

That makes as much sense as any other Marxist interpretation of world economcs.

So true Revolution can only come from the Third World.




Still in a subservient possition to Western imperialism, it is only natural that these groups would bloc up in order to gain more leverage. However, for the purposes of understanding revolutionary change both tactically and strategically, the primary contradiction is still between imperialism and exploited nations, and not between rival imperialist factions.

You have a tendancy to make the Communists around here all sound like revisionists. :D

[danyboy27]

A united global working class is an abstraction. It doesn't really exist. In the real world, you have the great antagonisms along national lines, hence Isreal vs Palestine, US vs and number of poor nations, etc and not these great 'class' conflicts within Israel and the US itself.
.
yea, this is definetly have to do with the fact that the avearge north american, even a poor one like me earn more than someone living in palestine that make our society clashes.

its have nothing to do with:

-rulling class economic interest
-geo-political back scratching between the rulling class
-Religious fundamentalism
-Complete political control of the western emisphere by the rulling class.
-Strong opression in third world countries by the rulling class.

yea, sure.





The question remains, why is this. Your view states that Third Worldists divide a 'unified working class.' This begs the questions, were there Third Worldists in the 1800's championing that wholesale slaughter of indigenous nations? Did Third Worldists convinced the early Amerikan masses that they stood over and above Black slaves? Today, is it MTWists hammering home the point that First Worlders are vastly better off than the Third World, or is this something that is plainly visible to most people?
.
hey man most of us didnt sanctionned those horribles crimes. Those horribles crimes where done by a freaking rulling class, and by our ancestors, we dont choose the rulling class and we dont choose our ancestor either.

Yes, there is differences between a first world and a thirld world worker, and its great beccause like this we could learn from eachother.

You on the other hand, encourage hatred of the first world worker by the third work workers.

There is no need for that. We have common goals, and common adversaries.
We are not the ennemy,remember this, the rulling class is.




You were part of an extreme minority. You should drop the First Worldism and get with MSH or RAIM.
no, tanks. great advertisement tho.

[danyboy27]

Supporting BRIC is bullshit btw.

BRIC and the us are like pepsi and coca cola. Different taste, same fucking recipies.

[Bankotsu]

Supporting BRIC is bullshit btw.

BRIC and the us are like pepsi and coca cola. Different taste, same fucking recipies.

I don't think so.

USA is for Pax Americana, unipolar world under U.S dominance and neoliberal economic system under U.S/IMF dictates, while BRIC is for multipolar world with diverse political and economic systems co-existing.


Joint Statement of the BRIC Countries’ Leaders

12. We underline our support for a more democratic and just multi-polar world order based on the rule of international law, equality, mutual respect, cooperation, coordinated action and collective decision-making of all states. We reiterate our support for political and diplomatic efforts to peacefully resolve disputes in international relations.

http://eng.kremlin.ru/text/docs/2009/06/217963.shtml

[Weezer]

Bud. Thanks for the questions.

Maoism-Third Worldism is different than virtually all varieties of nominal socialism, communism and anarchism in that it proceeds from an honest interpretation of class in today's world.

Mao, in the first two sentences of Volume 1 of his Selected Works, asks, "Who are our enemies? Who are our friends?" These questions, though simple, are poignant and universal. Today, the way one answers these questions determines if they are a revisionist First Worldist or on the path of a genuine communist.

MTWists uphold that the principal contradiction is between imperialism and exploited nations. It is this dynamic which primarily defines history and revolutionary struggle. Unlike the typical 'leftist' dogma about a world-united working class, MTWist is drawn from an ongoing reality-based historical analysis. (It is really telling that Zinn's ''People's History of the US" spends all of a couple sentences on Japanese internment, for example) MTWist is scientific: it is explanatory and predictive.

Revleft is a circle jerk. It's a fantasy world where psuedo-revolutionaries go to reassure themselves that they're progressive. It's a bunch of people (mostly kids and young adults) talking to eachother about how progressive the First World 'working' class is on a internet message board. In reality, the First Worldist "revolutionaries" have no traction in the First World. The First Worldist 'revolutionary' 'left' is so non-supported, small and spatially separated that it is forced into little online enclaves, one of many in the 'post-modern' imperialist First World. The First Worldists of Revleft (virtually everyone here) do all this while claiming they represent the interest of the masses.

Revleft is a kind of world-creating and maintaining device for First Worldists. I imagine that many of the administrators and posters spend hours a day on Revleft. It is a significant part of their world, at this time. I, or anyone else, who infringes upon the natural order of the revleft-world is seen to be hostile. That is why I'm restricted.

First-Worldists? LOL

At least we're not pan-nationalist and support such a racist ideology.

The 'First World' proletariat is "not as revolutionary", if anything, is because the majority think communism is evil. It's not their fault. That doesn't mean we can't have a proletarian revolution.

[Bankotsu]

AvanteRedGarde, what is the position of Maoist-Third Worldist regarding the agenda of pushing for a multipolar world?

Several countries are pushing to bring to an end the U.S unipolar world and usher in a multipolar world.


China, Russia sign pact for multipolar world
http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/23/ (http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/9704/23/russia.china/index.html)

Toward a New Multipolar World of the New Millennium
http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins99/tim99-12-6.html

France and Venezuela Agree to Promote “Multipolar” World, Says Chavez
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/1424

Rise of the BRICs – shift to a multipolar world
http://www.globaldashboard.org/2009/06/16/10116/

Moving towards a multi-polar world

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/76988bd6-fa63-11de-beed-00144feab49a.html


China's Global Strategy: Toward a Multipolar World

http://www.amazon.com/Chinas-Global-Strategy-Toward-Multipolar/dp/074532519X

China-Russia Joint Statement on 21st century world order

http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/1455/1/108/

India, China and Russia for multi-polar world

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/india-china-and-russia-for-multipolar-world/191966/

The Shanghai Cooperation Organization: Prospects For A Multipolar World
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13707

[ls]

Your support for BRIC is disgusting if you think you are in any way (third-worldist or not) a 'socialist', it is absolutely unashamed capitalism whether or not it is in 'opposition' to the USA.

[Bankotsu]

I completely and totally support BRIC and a multipolar world.

I think left wing states have better chances to survive in a multipolar world than a unipolar world dominated by USA.

In a unipolar world dominated by USA, USA would harass and seek to overthrow left wing regimes that don't conform to the neoliberal agenda.

In a multipolar world, left wing regimes would have more room to manoeuver and build up their socialist agenda.

That is my position.

I totally, fully, wholly and completely support BRIC and any other blocs or states that pushes for an end to the unipolar world in order to bring in multipolar world.

For this position I am restricted in this forum.


Chavez: Venezuela is a major player in multi-polar world
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-09/14/content_12048734.htm

Hugo Chavez supports multipolar world, so I support him.

We must work together to build up a multipolar world and bring to an end U.S imperialism.

China's peaceful rise good for the world

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/commentary/the-china-post/special-to-the-china-post/2010/01/05/239380/Chinas-peaceful.htm

[ls]

I'm not a lover of ARG's line on first-world workers, but I bet even he thinks your line is full of crap and in absolute agreement with capitalism.

[Bankotsu]

I'm not a lover of ARG's line on first-world workers, but I bet even he thinks your line is full of crap and in absolute agreement with capitalism.

My line is to end U.S unipolar world and the system that it represents and bring in a new multipolar world where there are diverse political and economic systems co-existing.

I think many people would support such an agenda.

Is, do you support unipolar or multipolar world?

The old world order is melting away

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e0edb468-eb75-11de-bc99-00144feab49a.html

New world order?

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/512ac520-ee93-11de-944c-00144feab49a.html

A multi polar world likely to emerge by 2020

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5357601.cms

The Fall of the US Empire - and Then What?

http://rt.com/Best_Videos/2009-10-30/american-empire-collapse-2020.html


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/After_the_Empire-Todd.jpg

After the Empire

http://www.amazon.com/After-Empire-Breakdown-Perspectives-Criticism/dp/023113102X

[ls]

I'm not a bourgeoisie nationalist so neither.

[danyboy27]

I don't think so.

USA is for Pax Americana, unipolar world under U.S dominance and neoliberal economic system under U.S/IMF dictates, while BRIC is for multipolar world with diverse political and economic systems co-existing.


Joint Statement of the BRIC Countries’ Leaders

12. We underline our support for a more democratic and just multi-polar world order based on the rule of international law, equality, mutual respect, cooperation, coordinated action and collective decision-making of all states. We reiterate our support for political and diplomatic efforts to peacefully resolve disputes in international relations.

http://eng.kremlin.ru/text/docs/2009/06/217963.shtml

Opression in a world dominated by a big player and opression in a multipolar world is still the same.

In both cases the rulling class will ignore their population, fuck their human right, and probably bomb the shit out of some countries for their ressources or some mondaine political reasons.

There was a multipolar world before, with multiples forces controling multiples regions of the world, and it never stopped their rulling class from enslaving other people, exploiting smaller countries, or killing eachother for territorial or political reasons.

BRIC is not holier than thou, its just another powermongering organisation.

[SocialismOrBarbarism]

So MSH's "influence in the Third World has increased dramatically" and they are "transforming into a nationwide and worldwide movement" which is "regenerating the communist movement," which they admit can only happen in the third world, under their young, white, middle class "intelligent leaders" based in some of America's wealthiest cities. Interesting.

[Bankotsu]

I'm not a bourgeoisie nationalist so neither.

That's quite a passive approach. Because like it or not it's either unipolar or some sort of multipolar world.

It's either U.S dominance or a more balanced world of multiple powers.

[Bankotsu]

Opression in a world dominated by a big player and opression in a multipolar world is still the same.


I beg to differ. BRIC allows for diverse political and economic systems to co-exist.

Does a world dominated by U.S imperialism allow that?

Would the U.S allow regimes like Chavez's to exist?

Russia, China, India and others wouldn't have much trouble with Chavez but U.S would like to overthrow his regime.

U.S. Venezuelan Relations: Imperialism and Revolution

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2010/01/05/u-s-venezuelan-relations-imperialism-and


Imagine a world with no powers like Russia and China selling arms to Venezuela and helping it. Chavez facing U.S alone.

You as a left wing supporter would like that?

[danyboy27]

I beg to differ. BRIC allows for diverse political and economic systems to co-exist.

Does a world dominated by U.S imperialism allow that?

Would the U.S allow regimes like Chavez's to exist?

Russia, China, India and others wouldn't have much trouble with Chavez but U.S would like to overthrow his regime.

U.S. Venezuelan Relations: Imperialism and Revolution

http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2010/01/05/u-s-venezuelan-relations-imperialism-and


Imagine a world with no powers like Russia and China selling arms to Venezuela and helping it. Chavez facing U.S alone.

You as a left wing supporter would like that?
you dont understand do you?
The us is no better than the BRIC countries.

Dont you understand the main reason why you have been restricted?

A multipolar world wont bring you peace and happines, only a different taste of global opression, war and misery. Instead of war waged by western power, you will have war waged by various countries for again the same mundaine, territorial and financial reasons.

Instead of having the us bully and repress smaller governement and communities, you will have repression and bullying by various, multiples countries.

The ennemy of my ennemy is not my friend, sorry bro.

Have fun supporting working class opression, east-asian style.

[ls]

That's quite a passive approach. Because like it or not it's either unipolar or some sort of multipolar world.

It's either U.S dominance or a more balanced world of multiple powers.

Nah, like I said I'm not a bourgeois nationalist hack like you, quit pretending to be a socialist and come out as a capitalist third-worldist. :thumbup1:

[Bankotsu]

Nah, like I said I'm not a bourgeois nationalist hack like you, quit pretending to be a socialist and come out as a capitalist third-worldist. :thumbup1:

And you are a supporter of U.S imperialism in a unipolar world, that's why you oppose BRIC, because they want to end U.S dominance.

Stop your communist bullshit pretext imperialist!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Bankotsu]

A multipolar world wont bring you peace and happines, only a different taste of global opression, war and misery. Instead of war waged by western power, you will have war waged by various countries for again the same mundaine, territorial and financial reasons.


You don't seem to understand do you?

Left wings regimes can fare better in a multipolar world.

[Bankotsu]

Dont you understand the main reason why you have been restricted?



I know the EXACT reason why I was restricted.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with left wing politics.

You know it. I know it. Any fuck head in here knows it.

[danyboy27]

I know the EXACT reason why I was restricted.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with left wing politics.

You know it. I know it. Any fuck head in here knows it.

But it have EVERYTHING to do with the left.

Seriously, what the difference if you support BRIC worker opression over the US worker opression?

its the same bullshit.

[danyboy27]

You don't seem to understand do you?

Left wings regimes can fare better in a multipolar world.

any proofs to back that extraordinary claim?

Personally i think its complete bullshit.

In a multipolar world back scratching would still exist.
if one of russia allies have problem with civil unrest, the russian governement will help the governement in trouble beccause its not in their favor to have it toppled.

dosnt change much.

[Bankotsu]

any proofs to back that extraordinary claim?


How long can the Chavez and Cuban regimes survive if Russia and China doesn't exist in this world?

There's the answer for you right there.

[Bud Struggle]

How long can the Chavez and Cuban regimes survive if Russia and China doesn't exist in this world?

There's the answer for you right there.

But for the longest time the world WAS multipolar and just about all the Socialist countries floundered and died. For that matter China is going my Capitalist by the day--latest reports are that its economy is almost 70% Capitalist.

Capitalist countries don't go to war with each other--they trade with each other.

Believe me Comrade--Communism is a lot more than just America hateing.

[Bankotsu]

But for the longest time the world WAS multipolar and just about all the Socialist countries floundered and died.

Imagine the left wing movement if USSR disappeared at end of WWII.

Believe me Comrade--left wing movements would fare better if U.S dominance ends. That may be completely impossible for some to accept in this forum. But I don't think the premise is wrong.

[danyboy27]

How long can the Chavez and Cuban regimes survive if Russia and China doesn't exist in this world?

There's the answer for you right there.

china and russia dosnt support those regimes for socialist goals.

-Oil
-strategic location.
-natural ressources.

-Do you think china support sudan for its progressive agenda?
-Do you think russia support abkhazia out of pure kindless of heart?
-Do you think china make commercial deal with Angola and Liberia for the sake of socialism?
-Do you think russia is making deal with their former soviet republics beccause they are treating their workers properly?

its all part of their personnal interests, or to be more precise the interests of the rulling class of china, russia and india.
they gonna be United has long the us is still dominant, then when it will be over you will see all those opportunists fight eachother to get the bits of The empire The us left.


BRIC is not gonna end war or bring equality, its just gonna do what the us did but in a different way:
instead of having the us bullying you or crushing your revolution, Multiples possibilities will be offered: china, russia, india, hell maybe various combination!


the us is no better than BRIC. BRIC is no better than the us.
get over it.

[Bankotsu]

china and russia dosnt support those regimes for socialist goals.

-Oil
-strategic location.
-natural ressources.

But the fact remains that they do support the Chavez and Castro regimes. Without their support, it would be easier for USA to crush these left wing regimes. Just look at the left wing regimes destroyed by USA since end of WWII in latin america.

We must be realistic in political affairs.

[danyboy27]

But the fact remains that they do support the Chavez and Castro regimes. Without their support, it would be easier for USA to crush these left wing regimes. Just look at the left wing regimes destroyed by USA since end of WWII in latin america.

We must be realistic in political affairs.

Unfortunatly the attack that have been performed against those countries recently didnt required any military hardware or economic sanction.

You can have all the arsenal of the world, it dosnt mean shit if someone is planning a coup or an assasination against you.

castro survived not beccause of its mig 21 but beccause he was careful.

Chavez survived to his coup beccause he had back then the support of his people.

all the stuff chavez purchased at his people expense will not make a lick of difference if the us decide to bomb the country back to the stoneage.

IF chavez want to make a difference he should loose his cult of personality complex and give back the power to the people once and for all.

But he wont do that beccause he nothing but a rulling class assole.
a verry open minded one, but he still a damn rulling class assole.

[Chambered Word]

Someone explain to me, why should there be a dividing line between workers in the Third World and workers in the First World?

[AvanteRedGarde]

It's not a question of if there 'should' be a divide, it's a question of if there is one and how central it is to global dynamics.

[Bud Struggle]

It's not a question of if there 'should' be a divide, it's a question of if there is one and how central it is to global dynamics.

I'm kind of wondering why your are perceived as a "racist." Blacks are living in the First world as well as the Third (though much more in the Third--I understand) and benefit (though less than whites because of racism) because of First World Imperialism.

I really don't see the racism, but this is new to me.

[Chambered Word]

It's not a question of if there 'should' be a divide, it's a question of if there is one and how central it is to global dynamics.

You know what I mean. Where is this divide which gives Third World revolution a priority over the First World?

[AvanteRedGarde]

For starters, the Third World is around 80 percent of the world, whereas the first is only 20%.

[Chambered Word]

For starters, the Third World is around 80 percent of the world, whereas the first is only 20%.

80% of the world in terms of what? Land mass? Population? :confused:

By your logic, 80% of the Third World should take priority over the other 20% of the Third World, and 80% of the First World should take priority over the other 20% of the First World. :rolleyes:

[RGacky3]

First of all, there IS a difference between first world workers and third world workers, first world workers only have to worry about exploitation from the Capitalist class from their country, there is only one layer of domination, whereas third world workers have more layers, the local Capitalists and the multinationals. THird world workers are also a lot more exploited because they can be much easier than first world workers.

So yeah, there is somewhat of a difference.

However, first world workers ARE STILL EXPLOITED, otherwise first world capitalists (not multinationals) could not make a profit, also, if you look at the numberrs first world workers do not benefit from imperialism at all, the capitalist class does. Also a first world socialists job is first and formost to liberate himself and his fellow workers wherever he is.

Also one thing that maoists have failed to answer me for a long time is, if they are Materialists (which I'm sure they claim to be), and anti-idealists, that means that they believe you ONLY follow your material interests, and that you only should do so, if thats the case, and they live in the first world, but also claim that everyone in the first world has their interests vested in imperialism, does'nt that mean that their material interests are also in imperialism? Or are they idealists?

[ls]

First of all, there IS a difference between first world workers and third world workers, first world workers only have to worry about exploitation from the Capitalist class from their country, there is only one layer of domination, whereas third world workers have more layers, the local Capitalists and the multinationals. THird world workers are also a lot more exploited because they can be much easier than first world workers.

So yeah, there is somewhat of a difference.

However, first world workers ARE STILL EXPLOITED, otherwise first world capitalists (not multinationals) could not make a profit, also, if you look at the numberrs first world workers do not benefit from imperialism at all, the capitalist class does. Also a first world socialists job is first and formost to liberate himself and his fellow workers wherever he is.

Also one thing that maoists have failed to answer me for a long time is, if they are Materialists (which I'm sure they claim to be), and anti-idealists, that means that they believe you ONLY follow your material interests, and that you only should do so, if thats the case, and they live in the first world, but also claim that everyone in the first world has their interests vested in imperialism, does'nt that mean that their material interests are also in imperialism? Or are they idealists?

I would love to hear an answer to this, bearing in mind that the MIM started at Harvard/Radcliffe after all: http://web.archive.org/web/20071221092217/http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/mimhist.html.

[Sasha]

I would love to hear an answer to this, bearing in mind that the MIM started at Harvard/Radcliffe after all: http://web.archive.org/web/20071221092217/http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/wim/mimhist.html.


jezus, just take one step back from your screen and look at that text without trying to read it.
only thing you see is MIM, RIM and a thousand times RCP.
i call it the sectarian test and man, did that lot just fail hard.

[ls]

jezus, just take one step back from your screen and look at that text without trying to read it.
only thing you see is MIM, RIM and a thousand times RCP.
i call it the sectarian test and man, did that lot just fail hard.

Lulz and "The RADACADS had openly worked with various organizations claiming vanguard status - but principally with the RCP. The RADACADS had consciously worked with parties that descended from the Maoist or Maoist-influenced elements of Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) and had consciously refused to work with Trotskyists or the CP, USA. At RADACADS events, surviving splinters from the SDS could all be found tabling and distributing literature."

RADACADS = radical academics :laugh: that was amazing, no really, thanks for the laughs MIM.

[Conquer or Die]

A marxist believes in getting paid for actual labor time worked, period. First world workers make more in every walk of life for doing less in material terms. Trade disparities and international conflict are transparent. Look at the Congo, look at China, South Asia, and formerly South America. This is a generalized proof of exploitation between nations.

It is not the psychological relationship between worker and owner that determines exploitation. It is the actual, material representation that determines exploitation.

If you are paid by a capitalist, but make more than the value of the item you build or facilitate then you are exploiting gain. Whatever extraneous value you receive from that object is not your rightful property.

I'm not sure about nation treason, vanguardism, nationalism or global communes that maoism third worldism extols, but the exploitation analysis is spot on. I find that is is also being corroborated by non-socialist friendly sources such as Adam Tooze. It's clearly a movement that is saying something important.

[Uppercut]

Solidarity with all working people across the globe. Here's to a maoist victory in Nepal, and in the Phillipines!:tt2: