Irish atheists challenge blasphemy law

[Sendo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8437460.stm

IRISH ATHEISTS CHALLENGE BLASPHEMY LAW

An atheist group in the Irish Republic has defied a new blasphemy law by publishing a series of anti-religious quotations on its website.

Atheist Ireland says it will fight any action taken against it in court.

The quotations include the words of writers such as Mark Twain and Salman Rushdie, but also Jesus Christ, the Prophet Muhammad and Pope Benedict XVI.

The new law makes blasphemy a crime punishable by a fine of up to €25,000 (£22,000; $35,000).

The government says it is needed because the republic's 1937 constitution only gives Christians legal protection of their beliefs.

The new law was passed in July 2009 but came into force on 1 January.

Atheist Ireland responded by publishing 25 quotes it considers anti-religious on its website.

The group said its aim is to have the law repealed and to attain a secular Irish constitution.

Chairman Michael Nugent said it would challenge the blasphemy law through the courts if it were charged, the London-based Guardian newspaper reported.

"This new law is both silly and dangerous," he is quoted as saying. "It is silly because medieval religious laws have no place in a modern secular republic, where the criminal law should protect people and not ideas."

Atheist Ireland says it will hold a series of public meetings around the country to launch its campaign.

****


Oh good, maybe in a few years the Republic can make a law to get rid of abortions and divorce rights, too.

[Sendo]

I'm curious as to why what the several Irish Republicans on this forum would say. Regardless of past grievances and occupation, it seems to me that half or a slim majority (last I learned...though the % may have shifted) of the NI people at the moment are Unionists and I don't see why political unification of the island is so damn important. I'm not saying life is Perfect for Catholics left up in that part of Ulster, but man! Imagine being a non-Catholic in the Republic! With Ireland's track record for secularism and women's rights for the past 60 or so years, I can understand why many in the North aren't gung-ho on joining the republic: obsession that Belfast and its surroundings are "necessary" for national liberation, theocracy, etc

[BOZG]

I'm curious as to why what the several Irish Republicans on this forum would say. Regardless of past grievances and occupation, it seems to me that half or a slim majority (last I learned...though the % may have shifted) of the NI people at the moment are Unionists and I don't see why political unification of the island is so damn important. I'm not saying life is Perfect for Catholics left up in that part of Ulster, but man! Imagine being a non-Catholic in the Republic! With Ireland's track record for secularism and women's rights for the past 60 or so years, I can understand why many in the North aren't gung-ho on joining the republic: obsession that Belfast and its surroundings are "necessary" for national liberation, theocracy, etc

Are you in the right thread?

[Sendo]

Are you in the right thread?

Yes! I'm curious as to how the Irish members who support Republican control of all the Irish isle can support their state. It's one thing to have seen people in yesteryear or today defend the territorial sovereignty of the PRC (as a workers' state, as far as defending China now it is debatable how much of the workers' state is left) but it's quite another to see the Irish nationalism which demands that the UK forcibly put the NI subjects under Republican authority.

I just don't see how people can justify the closest thing I've seen to a Christian or Catholic theocracy in modern times.

[Hoggy_RS]

I'm curious as to why what the several Irish Republicans on this forum would say. Regardless of past grievances and occupation, it seems to me that half or a slim majority (last I learned...though the % may have shifted) of the NI people at the moment are Unionists and I don't see why political unification of the island is so damn important. I'm not saying life is Perfect for Catholics left up in that part of Ulster, but man! Imagine being a non-Catholic in the Republic! With Ireland's track record for secularism and women's rights for the past 60 or so years, I can understand why many in the North aren't gung-ho on joining the republic: obsession that Belfast and its surroundings are "necessary" for national liberation, theocracy, etc
I'm gonna go easy on you as you obviously have absolutley no idea what you are talking about. To even compare the treatment of non-catholics in the north to catholics in the north is ridiculous. Those from nationalist areas in the north are still hugely discriminated against in employment and housing. In the free state, protestants share equal footing with catholics and have since 1922.

We(republicans) aren't looking for the free state to take control of the occupied 6 counties, we are looking for political revolution and the establishment of a 32 county socialist & secular republic.

[Hoggy_RS]

Yes! I'm curious as to how the Irish members who support Republican control of all the Irish isle can support their state. It's one thing to have seen people in yesteryear or today defend the territorial sovereignty of the PRC (as a workers' state, as far as defending China now it is debatable how much of the workers' state is left) but it's quite another to see the Irish nationalism which demands that the UK forcibly put the NI subjects under Republican authority.

I just don't see how people can justify the closest thing I've seen to a Christian or Catholic theocracy in modern times.

you should really of read up on republicanism before making silly posts.

[Revy]

But the Protestant leaders in Northern Ireland aren't much better, Sendo. I remember hearing about Ian Paisley's homophobia, he was the First Minister of Northern Ireland between 2007 and 2008. In the '70s as an MP he launched the campaign "Save Ulster from Sodomy" which tried to prevent the decriminalization of homosexuality in Northern Ireland.

Ian Paisley believes in Biblical literalism as he is a Protestant fundamentalist, staunchly anti-Catholic. Ian Paisley also has links with American fundamentalists, including the Bob Jones University, which awarded him an honorary doctorate.

Unfortunately the new First Minister of Northern Ireland Peter Robinson is also a fundie, using religious basis to refer publicly to homosexuality as an "abomination".

[Sendo]

I'm mostly concerned with the way things are right now in the respective sides. I don't really think anyone has the right to ***** about England controlling "their" land when they have enough problems on their side.

Yeah, I know Ian Paisley was piece of shit; I took a class on Irish history from 1600 to the modern day.

And as for North vs. Republic tit-for-tat, I'd rather go for dealing with homophobic hate speech from a minister than dealing with a ban on un-Christian speech from a parliament. Things may be bad in the North as well, but I don't understand how bringing it into a single state with the other counties is meant to improve it. If it's revolution and socialism you want I fail to see why it must make a special case of Ireland. I'm sorry that I misunderstood the Irish Republican stance as here on revleft, but the term's got a history outside of here.

[Wanted Man]

Well, I think it's pretty easy to understand. Republican socialists don't identify with the current 26-county Republic of Ireland, but they oppose its government. They would probably remind you of this quotation by James Connolly:


If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.

Really, you could find out this much with a simple search on wikipedia. Now you just appear pompous and uninformed.

Anyway, even without all that, you're still not making any sense. The republican socialists don't support a theocracy, and the Republic of Ireland as it stands now is not a theocracy either. So what the fuck are you talking about?

[PRC-UTE]

I'm mostly concerned with the way things are right now in the respective sides. I don't really think anyone has the right to ***** about England controlling "their" land when they have enough problems on their side.

Do you know how British rule is maintained in Ireland? It's not been very pleasant.

Do yknow why the Irish resisted British rule? Because they were discriminated against.

Start with the basic facts of the situation, then work your way up to theory and abstract argumentation.


I
And as for North vs. Republic tit-for-tat, I'd rather go for dealing with homophobic hate speech from a minister than dealing with a ban on un-Christian speech from a parliament. Things may be bad in the North as well, but I don't understand how bringing it into a single state with the other counties is meant to improve it. If it's revolution and socialism you want I fail to see why it must make a special case of Ireland. I'm sorry that I misunderstood the Irish Republican stance as here on revleft, but the term's got a history outside of here.

See hardcore republicans don't advertise this, because they rightly believe they will sound crazy to everyone else, but they regard the Republic as pro-British traitors to the Republic. Many refuse still to refer to it as the ROI, calling it "the free state" or just the 26 instead. They will likely be laughing at this blasphemy law as proof that the Republic really is an illegitimate state.

[IrishWorker]

I support every single person’s right to pray to whatever God they choose but I also support my right to say.

Fuck Jesus
Fuck Allah
Fuck Buda
Fuck Censorship
Fuck Free State Oppression

[Robocommie]

I think it's important to be respectful or courteous of people's beliefs, all other things being equal, but it shouldn't be illegal. Not everything that's wrong or rude should be a matter for the courts, after all.

I think you can make a distinction about hate speech though, if it can be argued that speech is geared towards enflaming violence or bigotry rather than simply being disrespectful.

[chegitz guevara]

How can we atheists abroad help our comrades in Ireland?

[Sendo]

I'm sorry for my misunderstanding and accusations. I was operating under the false assumption that Irish Republicanism meant support for the Republic of Ireland.

I still disagree with the feeling that Ireland must be united--I think working towards revolution is more important than moving lines on the map. The whole movement seems rather singular. I don't see Mexican revolutionaries pushing for socialist revolution in Mexico AND reclamation of lost land in California, Arizona, and Texas.

I've heard of the oppression and killing throughout the "troubles" (did the British come up with that cruel euphemism?). I just feel that right now people should be more worried about threats to basic civil rights in 26 counties than the liberation/integration of 6 counties.

I'm also alarmed that more Irish members seem to be more concerned over an invitation to the English crown for a diplomatic visit than they are over something like this. I'm not absolving the crown's complicity in anything, I'm just thinking that a visit from a head of state is less of a threat to people's daily lives than the attacks on atheists.

**

In any case, honest question, how do you expect the Supreme Court to react? Do you think it will be enforced? What are locals saying about it? Is the left organizing anything?

(The whole reason of my bashing of what I thought was Republicanism was my experience with seeing so many threads on paramilitaries and sovereignty and so few on the Free State/"ROI"'s domestic conditions. National liberation is fine, but the national liberation with socialism part seems much less emphasized than say the Black Panthers' platform. I would have hardly known it existed. There are several factions claiming to Irish Republicans and I apologize for my lack of research, but I also feel that the respective factions could emphasize the leftist aspect more. There is also little information on the RevLeft user group. In the dearth of information--wikipedia's entry is long-winded, poorly organized and too diverse in opinion, I made an assumption. I am sorry for that. And I am sorry that my remarks were snotty. I wish I could have said it in person with a sincere tone of voice.)

[blake 3:17]

Revolutionaries want a united Ireland. That doesn`t mean we support these stupid blasphemy laws.


National liberation is fine, but the national liberation with socialism part seems much less emphasized than say the Black Panthers' platform. And where`s the BPP at now?

[Sendo]

Revolutionaries want a united Ireland. That doesn`t mean we support these stupid blasphemy laws.

And where`s the BPP at now?

Destroyed by FBI assassinations and jailings and intimidation.

United Ireland for its own sake sounds like Zionist arguments for a Jewish homeland and state. Both sound like beautiful ideas. I never thought for a moment any Irish here would support the laws. It just strikes me as odd that no one came on to comment until I attacked the Republican movement.

So far only one post has addressed the topic at hand. All I've gotten is flak for conflating the Socialist Republican ideal with the current ROI which I deserve. But there's the still the issue I see of Republican Socialists harping about England but not caring to comment on this problem in the 26 counties' government.

Maybe unifying the whole island will make abolishing these laws easier. But man, the laws in Ireland on civil rights have been moving at such a snail's pace...and on top, i see this backpedaling here. I just thought those would be an issue and I was curious as to what the Irish members have heard or expect to see.

I think that the religious inroads on the state should be attacked just as much the sectarianism and discrimination. But this thread has unfortunately degenerated into a debate about the qualities of Irish revolutionary nationalism. Apparently none of the Irish members have any insight into how it will be opposed, talked about, enforced, overturned, or whatever. There are other priorities I can see.