Lenin/Mao statue erected in Richmond, BC

[Invincible Summer]

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/life/Giant+statue+Lenin+talk+Richmond/2384389/2384392.bin

Some news sources:

http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Giant+statue+Lenin+talk+Richmond/2384389/story.html

http://www.bclocalnews.com/richmond_southdelta/richmondreview/opinion/letters/79843602.html

From: http://www.bclocalnews.com/community/79546252.html


The three-dimensional sculpture stands approximately 17 metres tall and is as wide as a car-length. It's made of polished stainless steel and features two figures of world history: late Bolshevik leader Vladimir Lenin and a feminine form of the former controversial Chinese Communist leader Mao Zedong.
Other sculptures of Miss Mao, as the small figure resting on top of Lenin's head is known, have been banned by Chinese authorities in the artists' home country in the past.
The brothers—Gao Zhen and Gao Qiang—have designed numerous sculptures of Mao, many with women's breasts. For that their exhibitions have been shut down and their studio raided.
"It's something I hope all Chinese people will one day be able to accept and understand," said Zhen, in an October interview with the New York Times. "We wanted to portray him as a human being, a regular person confessing for the wrongs he's committed."And evidently our buddies at Stormfront have posted a thread on this topic as well, mirroring many of the sentiments that the commenters on the BClocalnews site have:




Why would we want anything to do with Mao on display in Richmond? He was one of the world's greatest and evil tyrants, responsible for the deaths of millions of people. And Lenin? What good was his value system?



Now that we have two of the greatest mass murderers in history “land” in Richmond, I eagerly anticipate the arrival of the third member of this infamous troika: Adolph Hitler. At a time when Ottawa is building a memorial to all the victims of communism we are celebrating the perpetrators.
Cynicism reigns supreme.



Thoughts?

[Sasha]

its art, not my kinda of art but art. not much more i could or want to say about it.

[Comrade Anarchist]

Art is art but it depends on what the art is celebrating whether or not i like it. And i think lenin and mao established tyranical dictatorships. but i dont think it worships them since it makes mao feminant

[RedStarOverChina]

"It's something I hope all Chinese people will one day be able to accept and understand," said Zhen, in an October interview with the New York Times. "We wanted to portray him as a human being, a regular person confessing for the wrongs he's committed." :rolleyes:
Right.

Having worked extensively in the "art industry" in Canada as well as in China, I'm pretty certain this guy's lying through his teeth.

Chinese artist know exactly what kind of work will be "appropriate" for display in China---and what sort of work will be banned and thus earning them fame and fortune overseas.

Their target audience sure as hell isn't "all Chinese people"...whoever that is.

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

It's an unusual thing to do, but it would be a mistake to immediately assume that any art depicting historical figures is either celebrating their legacy or condemning it - sometimes art is just neutral or using controversy to get people to question their values.

Lenin established the Soviet Union which arguably ended up as a dictatorship, but that was not his fault. I disagree with many of his decisions and his belief that the end justified any means, but he did help to overthrow a horrendous system and he put some very progressive ideas into practice.

And is that a Stormfront member who can't spell Adolf Hitler?!

[Revy]

seems sexist, to portray Mao as some kind of little girl. and to read about other statues with Mao having boobs, well...there you go. they seem to have an obsession with portraying him as a woman.

from their site:


http://www.gaobrothers.net/news/moscow/images/01.jpg
Their performance impressed the audience.

It culminated with smashing the statue of Chairman Mao, which, furthermore, had female breasts.

Gao Brothers had imitated serial politician typical behaviours that, firstly they waved, shaked hands and had bear hugs under small Miss Mao masks, then smashed a big Miss Mao statue with big hammers , in which a red Lenin's statue fixed at a cross exposed and then being smashed too. At last,they took out a black skull from the broken Lenin's head, raised and show it to audience together,with laughters of a likely death.

[the last donut of the night]

When I first saw this thread I thought, "OMG BEGINNINGS OF REVOLUTIONARY CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS?!111" Seems it isn't so.

It's just art, really.

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

seems sexist, to portray Mao as some kind of little girl

does it?

[Luisrah]

does it?

It could be just another way of mocking a communist.

If it is, then it is quite sexist.


When I first saw this thread I thought, "OMG BEGINNINGS OF REVOLUTIONARY CLASS CONSCIOUSNESS?!111" Seems it isn't so.

Yeah, I got that too.

[Sendo]

:rolleyes:
Right.

Having worked extensively in the "art industry" in Canada as well as in China, I'm pretty certain this guy's lying through his teeth.

Chinese artist know exactly what kind of work will be "appropriate" for display in China---and what sort of work will be banned and thus earning them fame and fortune overseas.

Their target audience sure as hell isn't "all Chinese people"...whoever that is.

Just like tripe from Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige. They're China's versions of Guy Ritchie, two directors who stereotype and distort their own motherlands for international (read:foreign) attention.

These artists are a couple of brats who idealize the capitalist world where they imagine the bourgeoisie will respect (instead of just turn their attentionto them for some mutual hatred of Mao). They are also sexist assholes. No wonder Jiang Qing is so demonized! China has real sexism problems that carry over from Confucianism/Neoconfucianism.

"How to insult Mao....
"Make him a fucking woman?"
"Brilliant!"

[The Red Next Door]

let them do their thing, doesn't effect the idea as long as we educate.

[khad]

seems sexist, to portray Mao as some kind of little girl. and to read about other statues with Mao having boobs, well...there you go. they seem to have an obsession with portraying him as a woman.

from their site:
Modern Chinese "art" is philistine trash. This puerile garbage is the kind of shit a frat boy would do for shits and giggles.

Look at this fucking trash:
http://www.chinese-photography.net/maliuming.php

[LOLseph Stalin]

It'll be interesting when conservatives in Richmond begin complaining about this. Sure it's "art", but it's portraying controversial figures. I find it particulary interesting that they would be portraying Mao as a girl though. Should be intersting to find out the reasoning for that.

[Drace]

Thats bad art.
Im sure Lenin didn't even have that many wrinkles.

[Axle]

Modern Chinese "art" is philistine trash. This puerile garbage is the kind of shit a frat boy would do for shits and giggles.

Look at this fucking garbage:
http://www.chinese-photography.net/maliuming.php

A lot of modern art in general is garbage. Andres Serrano is a good example...no real artistic value in much of his work, its all about shock.

And I'm completely confused about a feminine Mao.

[Sendo]

Modern Chinese "art" is philistine trash. This puerile garbage is the kind of shit a frat boy would do for shits and giggles.

ugh. I'm getting tired of the rise of the term "frat boy" in recent years. I was in a frat in college. Yeah there's many at elite colleges that are white supremacist or upper-classy or WASPy or whatever, but c'mon...by and large they're just the same drunkard college students except living under one roof. I saw it as communal living plus parties and learning to live with people of quite different personalities. Also mine had minorities in a heavily, heavily white school and even a foreign student whom we also helped to perfect his English.

Besides a TP'ed statue of some rich WASP "benefactor" is far more enjoyable than this. So is streaking with an empty beer box on your head.

This is pretention in its highest form. Also see: performance art (read: rich, isolated people smear themselves in feces)

By the way, the link...total artistic FAIL.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I quite like it. It seems to be at least mildly thought-provoking, with the added bonus of simultaneously offending both rabid anti-Communists who're shocked by the very concept of portraying Lenin and Mao, and rabid Maoists who're shocked by the concept of portraying Mao with anything less than absolute veneration.

[dar8888]

I don't have much regard for Mao, but he did have a few good ideas:)

Art is art. It may be puerile trash, but it has(obviously)provoked some conversation.

How odd that Hitlerians would object to such a statue!

[RedStarOverChina]

I don't have much regard for Mao, but he did have a few good ideas:)

Art is art. It may be puerile trash, but it has(obviously)provoked some conversation.

How odd that Hitlerians would object to such a statue!
It's ridiculous to suggest politically motivated "works of art" should not receive political criticism just because it's "art".

If a "performance artist" decide to organize a parade of Neo-Nazis performing Nazi salutes, would you defend it as "art"?

The fact is, art, like religion, is not "above politics". Not all art is political, but when it is, it will always be subject to politically motivated criticism---and rightfully so.

I take issues with Mao-worshiping myself...But the so-called "works of art" like these usually take aim at the Chinese communist revolution as a whole----from the perspective of the right.

And that, I have a problem with.

[RedStarOverChina]

Just like tripe from Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige. They're China's versions of Guy Ritchie, two directors who stereotype and distort their own motherlands for international (read:foreign) attention.

These artists are a couple of brats who idealize the capitalist world where they imagine the bourgeoisie will respect (instead of just turn their attentionto them for some mutual hatred of Mao). They are also sexist assholes. No wonder Jiang Qing is so demonized! China has real sexism problems that carry over from Confucianism/Neoconfucianism.

"How to insult Mao....
"Make him a fucking woman?"
"Brilliant!"
I've never seem movies from the "rebel phase" of these directors myself, so I cant say if they had distorted China for their own gains.

But I do know that Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige (and another famous "dissident director") have since "returned to the fold" and became "patriotic model party members", to the disappointment of many Chinese liberals and foreign observers.

The reason? China has developed a substantial movie audience, to the point that it is no longer profitable to keep their "rebel image".

The art industry (and it is an industry) in China, like the movie industry in the 90s, is not hugely profitable for most artists. Most artists don't end up selling a single painting. It's obviously driven a lot of artists to desperate measures.

Desperate because not even Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige went as far as these people have. They just made sure 99.99% of the Chinese population would not ever know about them.

Apparently, they could care less right now.

[dar8888]

It's ridiculous to suggest politically motivated "works of art" should not receive political criticism just because it's "art".

Nor did I suggest such a thing. I merely stated that at least it's provoking discussion.

I, as a Leninist, find the piece offensive.

[LOLseph Stalin]

Nor did I suggest such a thing. I merely stated that at least it's provoking discussion.

I, as a Leninist, find the piece offensive.

How so? I'm also a Leninist and I don't see anything offensive about it.

[dar8888]

How so? I'm also a Leninist and I don't see anything offensive about it.

It's not the piece itself that is offensive, but how the piece will be viewed by a largely non-Communist public.

[LOLseph Stalin]

It's not the piece itself that is offensive, but how the piece will be viewed by a largely non-Communist public.

I think there's benefits to displaying the piece though. It might lead some people to become more open-minded towards communism.

[Manifesto]

Is there some meaning as to why Mao is doing that?

[Sendo]

I've never seem movies from the "rebel phase" of these directors myself, so I cant say if they had distorted China for their own gains.

But I do know that Zhang Yimou, Chen Kaige (and another famous "dissident director") have since "returned to the fold" and became "patriotic model party members", to the disappointment of many Chinese liberals and foreign observers.

The reason? China has developed a substantial movie audience, to the point that it is no longer profitable to keep their "rebel image".

The art industry (and it is an industry) in China, like the movie industry in the 90s, is not hugely profitable for most artists. Most artists don't end up selling a single painting. It's obviously driven a lot of artists to desperate measures.

Desperate because not even Zhang Yimou and Chen Kaige went as far as these people have. They just made sure 99.99% of the Chinese population would not ever know about them.

Apparently, they could care less right now.

Raise the Red Lantern and Farewell My Concubine. Try to sit through more than 10 minutes of these shit piles. It's impossible.

I do think To Live was wonderfully made, though it is anti-GPCR malarky. There was also some older movie, Ju Dou, about rural China during the Japanese invasion, it was decent. Not One Less raises good discussions about poverty in modern China and has moving scenes, but the characters and children actors are annoying as fuck as it fails to make a political analysis or offer a solution or make a call-to-arms.

What you say makes sense, though, that they are pretty much forced to sell themselves as the "other" to the liberals and the Western film snobs in order to make cash. Cuban athletes defect for the same reasons.

In any case, what is popular with foreign audiences is almost never popular with its domestic audience. In South Korea Prison Break and CSI had HUGE followings (I knew zero Americans who watched PB, and only a few were casual watchers of CSI), while the globally-loved "Oldboy" went in its producer nation like a lead balloon. America seems to be the worst, however, housing so many discarded foreign artists and loving trite, bottom-of-the-barrel foreign shit like Crouching Tiger. OMG flying people! (nevermind that the wuxia genre has been in Chinese and HK film for 80 years!)

[The Ungovernable Farce]

It's not the piece itself that is offensive, but how the piece will be viewed by a largely non-Communist public.
I think it's a bit absurd to judge a piece of art by the reactions you imagine other people will have to it. If you went flyposting for a meeting or demonstration in your area, it might make many members of the largely non-Communist public think "psh, bloody commies!", but that still wouldn't make your posters reactionary.

[Invincible Summer]

It's got people talking about Communism (albeit, probably negatively), which I guess is a good thing in a way.

I just think the whole liberal-democratic hypocrisy is overwhelming - people are calling for a statue that "glorifies dogmatic killers" to be taken down, and how erecting the sculpture "ignores history" when they are themselves ignoring the bloody history of capitalism.

[dar8888]

I think it's a bit absurd to judge a piece of art by the reactions you imagine other people will have to it. If you went flyposting for a meeting or demonstration in your area, it might make many members of the largely non-Communist public think "psh, bloody commies!", but that still wouldn't make your posters reactionary.

That's what art is supposed to do: provoke a reaction. My reaction towards a piece might be different than yours - and probably for different reasons - but does that make my reaction absurd? If I hang a billboard painting of Jesus raping Mary outside a Catholic church - would it be absurd for someone to find it offensive?

[Atlanta]

eh there just a bunch of petit-bourgeois artist who think there shitty semi sexist art will somehow change the world.....thats my take on it anyway.

[Sendo]

eh there just a bunch of petit-bourgeois artist who think there shitty semi sexist art will somehow change the world.....thats my take on it anyway.

I'm sure the extent of these kids "suffering" under Mao was their parents moaning about having share power and wealth and college entrance slots with smelly poor people who "brought the country down". You can tell bourgeois shit=bags by their appeals to "teh country" and how a leader "held them back". Look at Reagan lovers, Chavez haters, Prachanda haters. Same shit. *****ing unspecifically. Notice how leftist can be precise with their complaints: collaborating with imperialist occupier, breaking strikes, privatized the water company, turned country into a sweatshop, etc.

[Invincible Summer]

I'm sure the extent of these kids "suffering" under Mao was their parents moaning about having share power and wealth and college entrance slots with smelly poor people who "brought the country down". You can tell bourgeois shit=bags by their appeals to "teh country" and how a leader "held them back". Look at Reagan lovers, Chavez haters, Prachanda haters. Same shit. *****ing unspecifically. Notice how leftist can be precise with their complaints: collaborating with imperialist occupier, breaking strikes, privatized the water company, turned country into a sweatshop, etc.

Also notice how leftist complaints are usually complaints that affect entire societies, whereas most middle- and upper-class moaners will whine about things that affect them individually.