I AM FEMALE NEWCOMER

[beautifulthought]

I am from China,and i am also a utopist.For a girl,it is hard for her to believe a ideal like communism,even in my motherland-a socalled soclialist country.So i am glad to meet so many comrades.

[革命者]

Welcome on the board!!

to the best of my knowledge you are the first Chinese member.. fantastic to have you here!!

Why is it so hard to keep believing in communism (for a girl)?!

[beautifulthought]

all my friends dont like any ideal,they like discuss fashion,popular music,and cool boy.in any country it is similar.

[SlimJin]

Same way for males, except they discuss girls tv and sports so you're not alone.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Welcome to the board!

[canikickit]

Welcome.

Your sig is really funny.

Tell us more about yourself, what age are you? Where in China do you live? Are you as good looking as your avatar?

Questioning authority is a good idea.

(Edited by canikickit at 9:41 pm on June 29, 2003)

[Red Comrade]

BeautifulThought, the Chinese government is a disgrace to Communism and Socialism, do not listen to their Pro-Xiaoping garbage that they have probably forced into your head. I suggest you read Marx, Engels, Lenin, and even Mao, and then compare with your government's oligarch policies.



(Edited by Red Comrade at 9:49 pm on June 29, 2003)

[Sandanista]

Welcome beautiful, im the resident agitator here, one of the few true socialists, other cool comrades are mental bunny, communist superhero, TAVAREESH KAMO and BOLSHEVIK 1917

[Silent Eye]

This isnt meant as an insult to the new member, but from what i see, this thread might become like this:

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/attentionwhore-pinto.gif

[SlimJin]

LOL that shit is funny as hell!

[Red Comrade]

LMFAOWPIMP!!!!!!

[Organic Revolution]

good story lol

[beautifulthought]

I am now 18.And i live in shanghai.

I am a girl similar to all my friend, but I am intersted in more than them.,such as history,philosophy.

In fact,my family was a victim of Mao.My grandpa joined the china communist in his 20,when the anti-japanese war broke out.In that time,he pretended to be a postman of the invader authority.He often bravely
post revolutinary post in walls in night,and cooperate with his comrades in sending information.And he also worked for the Guoming Party.But that experience became his evidence of a reactionary.In 1957,Mao began to strike "right" intellectual.In that year,my grandpa maybe said something the party couldnt bore,
so he was caught into prison for 15 ten years.And our family became black(in that year it means reactionary) family.In the great culture revolutinary,the member of my family was considered untouchable.Eventually,my grandpa died of liver cancer in prison,without any treatment.Hearing the news,my grandma fainted.In the day my grandpa died of every year,she cant heip crying.

Thanks to deng xiaoping,in the days he controlled the country,he liberated a lot of political prisoner.So is my family.

[antieverything]

so...how do you feel about the current state of China especially economically?

Are you a Marxist...if not, wonderful! :P

[beautifulthought]

Thanks to Xiaoping's economic policy,my father open an electronic company,in bolsheviks opinion,he is a capitalist.But I still believe the utopia ideal because I have seen a lot of injustice

[Dirty Commie]

Welcome to the board!

Glad to see we are known in China.

btw, doesn't Dhul live in China?

[antieverything]

...isn't it wierd how you've been able to post the exact same things in two different discussions in two different discussions?

Oh, there's not really any need to emphasize your sex here...there's tons of girls.

[Felicia]

Welcome to che-lives.

Yes, Dhul's in china at the moment, but he's moving to berlin this summer.

haha, that "animation" was hilarious :biggrin:

[Red Comrade]

I was going to say something pretty mean in regards to Xiaoping and counter revolutionaries like him, but I'll retract.

[antieverything]

Get over it, man...central planning was a disaster and any leader who stuck to it would be guilty of what it did to the Chinese people!

[Red Comrade]

Central planning is a disaster!?

I sure hope you aren't a Marxist, because Marxist theory is based on centralization. Central planning didn't "fail" in China, the problem was that when you take over a country full of ignorant peasants and illiterate, superstitious people you are bound for failure. Mao tried his best to turn China around, and I'll admit that some of it was disasterous. The cultural revolution was for the most part a failure (or poorly planned and executed) and same thing with the Great Leap Forward, but it is ludicrous to blame Chairman Mao for everything!

Before Mao came to power people were oppressed and were hungry, but no one dared to stand up to the nationalist government. While bourgeoisie rode in limousines, there were homeless unemployed people dead from starvation! Atleast Mao tried to fix this problem, reactionaries like Xiaoping betrayed the revolution and instead inslaved his people with capitalism. Did you know that china's workers are unionless now?! That is probably one of the worse betrayals of our workers ever! They are using them for slave labor!

[antieverything]

No, I'm not a Marxist. The fact is, however, central planning has been a disaster everywhere it has been tried. Sure, you can give me some misleading statistics on the Stalinist era but they are easily refuted. The fact is that while China stagnated under central planning, Market Socialism quadrupled the GDP...rural chinese now have televisions and other luxury goods! The transition hasn't been easy, of course. In the late 90s, some rural areas had unemployment rates estimated at approaching 2/3 (a result of ending the disasterous collective agriculture programs and instituting a much more efficient "family-ownership" style of agriculture). This is, however, where the socialist nature of China's system shows through. Cooperatives and village and township enterprises now make up 90% of China's economy and work is often shared equitably to combat unemployment. Even in the cities where dismanteling and reform of state-owned enterprises results in massive layoffs, layed off workers still recieve a paycheck and maintain a professional relationship with the company! Can you imagine how disasterous market reforms would be if it weren't for the socialist aspect? Instead, standards of living are increasing.


Before Mao came to power people were oppressed and were hungryAnd after Mao...people were oppressed and hungry! Wow!

Chinese workers do have unions...I don't know where you heard otherwise...of course, all unions are under the control of the state-sponsored all-union umbrella group, the All China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU), which exerts leadership over some 590,000 official grassroots unions and their sub-branches. All attempts to organize independent unions have been systematically crushed by the authorities. This is pretty much how it has worked in all Communist countries and it isn't anything new in China...

I never said, of course, that I supported the Chinese political system. We can only hope for a drastic series of reforms in the next few decades to be initiated by the CP leadership...if not, things could get very, very ugly.

[Red Comrade]

No, I'm not a Marxist.

So you're a capitalist? Only a capitalist or a reactionary would support revisionism and "market Socialism" in China.


The fact is, however, central planning has been a disaster everywhere it has been tried. Sure, you can give me some misleading statistics on the Stalinist era but they are easily refuted. The fact is that while China stagnated under central planning, Market Socialism quadrupled the GDP...rural chinese now have televisions and other luxury goods! The transition hasn't been easy, of course. In the late 90s, some rural areas had unemployment rates estimated at approaching 2/3 (a result of ending the disasterous collective agriculture programs and instituting a much more efficient "family-ownership" style of agriculture). This is, however, where the socialist nature of China's system shows through. Cooperatives and village and township enterprises now make up 90% of China's economy and work is often shared equitably to combat unemployment. Even in the cities where dismanteling and reform of state-owned enterprises results in massive layoffs, layed off workers still recieve a paycheck and maintain a professional relationship with the company! Can you imagine how disasterous market reforms would be if it weren't for the socialist aspect? Instead, standards of living are increasing.

Yeah, yeah, more useless facts. Truth is the new "market reforms" are injust! It is ridiculous that in a country that considers itself communist or socialist there is unemployment! Sure, some Chinese citizens have televisions and all that other trash. But in Vietnam, which is a generally central planned country, has predicted that by 2020 every Vietnamese household will have a kitchen, refrigerator, television, and sufficient food supplies.

Having luxuries has nothing to do with central planning or market socialism, it has to do with flourishing. Do you really think China, a country with millions of people back then, would've properly developed under capitalism? Of course not! It was a nation of ignorant peasants and oligarchs, if it wasn't for Mao's socialism, these peasants would've never had literacy, and instead be enslaved in Batista like Authoritarian capitalism.

Yes, "market socialism" is sure great for the new rich and the fascistic Chinese government, but the ones suffering are the exploited peasants! China should not be considered Socialist or Communist, they should be considered a capitalist nation with little liberties. Yes, the Chinese economy is good and strong, but the poor aren't getting their needs addressed!


And after Mao...people were oppressed and hungry! Wow!

The difference is that Mao did not starve his people on purpose. It would be like blaming Theodore Roosevelt for the Great Depression! Mao inherited an awful, underdeveloped economy, just like Stalin (although I don't agree with many of Stalin's actions). The Chinese economy was in shambles because of the counter productive government and the Japanese invasion in WWII (which the Chinese Communist party bravely fought against), so Mao had to take drastic actions in order to boost the Chinese economy. This drastic action was later known as the Great Leap Forward, which ended in mass famine. Mao did everything he could to feed the masses, the problem was that many of his communes that were setup had flaws, like irrigation systems etc. Mao DID NOT purposely starve his people, and it is ridiculous to assume so because he tried his best to improve the lives of the peasants in China and overthrow the bourgeois.



Woah, a state run trade union!? That is ridiculous! In most Socialist/Communist nations, people have their trade unions and are allowed to strike when they wish (well, except for maybe in North Korea). The reason the Chinese government does not allow independent trade unions is because they profit on the slave labor of the people. How ironic, the actual "communist party" is EXPLOITING WORKERS!



(Edited by Red Comrade at 3:22 am on July 3, 2003)

[antieverything]

I certainly love how you simply disregard everything I say...sigh.

...did you know that independant trade unions face repression in Cuba? Do you deny that they were repressed in the Soviet Union and the former Communist Bloc?

I don't know how many god damn times I've had some teeny-bopper fucking kid who thinks he knows what Marxism is tell me that I'm a capitalist because I'm not a Marxist. Let me get this across to you: socialism is to me the ideal of human power and human gain. Perhaps you are familiar with the "white cat/black cat" idea... capitalism and socialism are mearly tags. A true socialist system does whatever it takes to raise living standards. It uses markets when they work and escews them when they don't. Socialism in my view is a system in which the people as a whole have the power to take the economy into their own hands...that doesn't mean that they do only that they can. I am, after all, a self-described "market socialist". Pragmatism is key, demagaugary is counterproductive, and Marxism is the enemy of the working class.

I recommend that you read "China's New Political Economy" if you want a good idea of what China's current economic/political situation looks like. The situation is improving in all sectors of society. Even layed-off workers recieve a pay-check. The socialist ethic is very much alive...certainly, if the CP let it die a revolution would result. You keep making the mistake of thinking that I approve of the corrupt-ass Chinese CP and its evil reppressive policies. Their recent crack-down on freedom of speech makes me ill. I wish death on the bastards.

It is irrelevant if Mao didn't intend to kill millions...because it happened because of his moronic utopian schemes. Central planning NEVER WORKS. Collective agriculture is INEFFICIENT.

As for Vietnam, it has been going through it's own set of market reforms...even though those statistics you cited are almost certainly bullshit.

[Red Comrade]

Listen antieverything, this is going to drag on and this is the lounge, not the politics section.

By the way, the statistic about Vietnam certainly is NOT bullshit: http://www.cpusa.org/article/articleview/75/1/41/

[antieverything]

I can't believe it! Don't you realize that quoting statistics from a Communist party is a no no among no no's? You just don't do it...unless you are making a joke! The Soviet Union said it would "bury" the United States...and it had the statistics to back it up. Hell, even the US government was contracting intelligence operatives to lie about the strength of the USSR to make it stronger. Show me some actual numbers from an outside source and I'll believe it...at least the Chinese CP has honest internal documents you can get a hold of!