freedom_fighter
21st December 2009, 10:58
I see the communists try to differentiate their iron fisted leaders as different from iron fisted fascist leaders. What is the difference here? It seems that history has proven that communism in practice has the same traits as a fascist government.
Similarities:
1. The individual has no rights to pursue his own life or desires. The collective is explicitly stated as more important than the individual, therefore he must sacrifice his own happiness for the "greater good." This is a stated purpose of communism.
2. The fascist government uses symbols and propaganda in an attempt to create the perfect man. The man who is so selfless he works as hard as he can for the nation state. Communist countries share this same attribute.
3. Fascist and communist governments disregard the rights of an individual to speak freely. Anything said that goes against the government, revolution or ideology is severely prohibited and often punishable by death.
the list can go on and on..
Communism and Fascism are all about the individual ceasing to be an individual and all about belonging to a collective. The collective must think as one, work as one, consume as one. The individual no longer has any incentives nor does he have the ability to make his life better unless he climbs the political ladder to become part of the political class.
The true roots of communist and socialist thoughts arise from envy. In feudal and monarchistic times an individual who was not succeeding in life could always lay blame on those in power for his troubles.
Once there were societies where the individual was given the freedoms to pursue his life, the excuse was removed when he asks himself why he is not as successful as the other man. The only answer is that the other man contributes to society in a more useful way than he does. This creates envy and class hatred. This is the root of leftist thought.
I would personally be embarrassed if my entire philosophy was rooted in envying an other person's success and wanting to use force to take it from him. It's on the same level as thievery. We don't teach our children to hate other children for the toys they have. We surely don't teach children to hurt other children for the toys they have.
When analyzing these political systems, you must have an ideology with a well rooted philosophy. A philosophy that respects an individuals right to pursue his life so long as he doesn't use coercion, force or fraud against an other is the only philosophy that can truly be defended.
Everyone on this forum likes to talk a good game about reading obscure Marxist literature and being so intellectual and smart, but this glaring detail of individual liberty is never analyzed or answered. All we hear from you is that there is a class of capitalists that control the capital and force workers to work for them, for if they did not, they would be forced to starve.
All of you should be aware of the differences between positive and negative liberties. Negative liberties are liberties an individual has regardless of where he is from, where he is or who is around him. Negative liberties exist if you were born in a cave. Negative liberty is that an individual is free from coercion, force and fraud by another human being. I should be free from a government using force to take my property, I should be free from an individual using a gun to tell me what to do, etc.
The idea of positive liberty came from the left. Things such as the right to a job, the right to free education, healthcare, shelter, etc. These all sound like amazing rights, but firstly your rights are not given to you by a government, they exist in a vacuum. Secondly, positive liberties require a government using force to take from one person and give to another, thus violating the core tenants of negative liberty.
I think protesting the fact an individual must work is the same thing as protesting the fact that human beings require food and shelter to survive. Would you be upset if you had to grow and hunt your own food for your survival? Would you try to overthrow nature for oppressing you with this requirement for living? It's the same thing when you get down to it.
Simply put, socialism and especially communism can only exist with the explicit refusal to recognize the rights of an individual to pursue his own happiness. I don't see how you all can think this is an okay thing.
Capitalism isn't a perfect system and there are legitimate criticisms for abuses performed by governments in service to corporations and corporations using force and fraud to take what they want. The difference however is that they are also violating the tenants of negative liberty. However, not all people or companies in a capitalist system abuse other people's rights. Those that do are breaking the laws of free market capitalism anyway, who's foundation is voluntary association between individuals.
If you were to replace capitalism with communism, you are saying that your system is the only one that is right and that everyone must agree with you. History has shown what happens to those who do not agree with the communist state. The path of communism is a path of death. It is a system that lacks innovation, motivation and all of the good things in life. Individuals no longer are able to freely express themselves through artwork or literature, unless it is to glorify the revolution.
I just find it very saddening that after communism's crimes perpetrated in the the 20th century, there are still individuals that sugarcoat it, blaming the "capitalist education system" for spreading lies, etc. You guys that talk like this sound just like the Soviets did when they'd try to rewrite history and reeducate their people.
I know you'd probably never touch these books with a 10 foot pole because the ideas are so subversive to people like you. You label them as reactionary when in reality, they are the most radical ideas that have ever been conceived. The idea that individuals are free to choose their own path in life, that they are allowed to pick their career of choice, start their own companies, make money and keep their money. They are free to compete with other companies and they are free to cooperate with other companies.
It's unfortunate that the United States has gotten off the path of respecting the rights of individuals as well. We have two parties that both believe in the power of government to fix people and problems. Neither of these parties are the answer. Neither is radical communism or socialism.
The only system that is philosophically sound is free market capitalism because it is a naturally occurring phenomenon when two individuals decide to trade goods or services voluntarily because it both benefits them. It is a system of bottom up organization rather than top down central planning. There is too much information to process in an economy and this is why centrally planned economies never have enough of anything. Say what you want about consumerism and people buying things they don't need, but I'll ask you this: Why do you think you know what's best for everyone?
Why not let individuals decide what is best for themselves, even if you disagree with it?
Thus at the end of the day, if you want to control people's lives, you are nothing more than fascists, looking to quash any individual's rights in order to create a perfect society of collectivists.
Books to read:
The Road to Serfdom by Hayek
Free to Choose by Friedman
I guarantee it will blow your mind and I know you'll be red in the face with anger because there is nothing you can do to refute these ideas, unless you truly believe in forcing other people to live under your system of colorless expression and death for those that speak out against it. If you believe this, then you are truly evil people.
Thankfully I know you are all (mostly) just confused. It's fun to believe in something subversive. I went through a strong socialist phase in my high school years until I was about 23. And then I grew up, experienced the world, read some real books and understand human nature more than a communist will ever. See, free market capitalism doesn't try to create the perfect man who gives up his own happiness for the collective. Free market capitalism realizes that human beings when able to live freely not only are the most productive, but also the most happy. Those people that envy the success of others are the ones who are so easily converted and taken by leftist thought.
Hope you all enjoy my post. I hope I don't get deleted for such thoughts.
Thank you.
Similarities:
1. The individual has no rights to pursue his own life or desires. The collective is explicitly stated as more important than the individual, therefore he must sacrifice his own happiness for the "greater good." This is a stated purpose of communism.
2. The fascist government uses symbols and propaganda in an attempt to create the perfect man. The man who is so selfless he works as hard as he can for the nation state. Communist countries share this same attribute.
3. Fascist and communist governments disregard the rights of an individual to speak freely. Anything said that goes against the government, revolution or ideology is severely prohibited and often punishable by death.
the list can go on and on..
Communism and Fascism are all about the individual ceasing to be an individual and all about belonging to a collective. The collective must think as one, work as one, consume as one. The individual no longer has any incentives nor does he have the ability to make his life better unless he climbs the political ladder to become part of the political class.
The true roots of communist and socialist thoughts arise from envy. In feudal and monarchistic times an individual who was not succeeding in life could always lay blame on those in power for his troubles.
Once there were societies where the individual was given the freedoms to pursue his life, the excuse was removed when he asks himself why he is not as successful as the other man. The only answer is that the other man contributes to society in a more useful way than he does. This creates envy and class hatred. This is the root of leftist thought.
I would personally be embarrassed if my entire philosophy was rooted in envying an other person's success and wanting to use force to take it from him. It's on the same level as thievery. We don't teach our children to hate other children for the toys they have. We surely don't teach children to hurt other children for the toys they have.
When analyzing these political systems, you must have an ideology with a well rooted philosophy. A philosophy that respects an individuals right to pursue his life so long as he doesn't use coercion, force or fraud against an other is the only philosophy that can truly be defended.
Everyone on this forum likes to talk a good game about reading obscure Marxist literature and being so intellectual and smart, but this glaring detail of individual liberty is never analyzed or answered. All we hear from you is that there is a class of capitalists that control the capital and force workers to work for them, for if they did not, they would be forced to starve.
All of you should be aware of the differences between positive and negative liberties. Negative liberties are liberties an individual has regardless of where he is from, where he is or who is around him. Negative liberties exist if you were born in a cave. Negative liberty is that an individual is free from coercion, force and fraud by another human being. I should be free from a government using force to take my property, I should be free from an individual using a gun to tell me what to do, etc.
The idea of positive liberty came from the left. Things such as the right to a job, the right to free education, healthcare, shelter, etc. These all sound like amazing rights, but firstly your rights are not given to you by a government, they exist in a vacuum. Secondly, positive liberties require a government using force to take from one person and give to another, thus violating the core tenants of negative liberty.
I think protesting the fact an individual must work is the same thing as protesting the fact that human beings require food and shelter to survive. Would you be upset if you had to grow and hunt your own food for your survival? Would you try to overthrow nature for oppressing you with this requirement for living? It's the same thing when you get down to it.
Simply put, socialism and especially communism can only exist with the explicit refusal to recognize the rights of an individual to pursue his own happiness. I don't see how you all can think this is an okay thing.
Capitalism isn't a perfect system and there are legitimate criticisms for abuses performed by governments in service to corporations and corporations using force and fraud to take what they want. The difference however is that they are also violating the tenants of negative liberty. However, not all people or companies in a capitalist system abuse other people's rights. Those that do are breaking the laws of free market capitalism anyway, who's foundation is voluntary association between individuals.
If you were to replace capitalism with communism, you are saying that your system is the only one that is right and that everyone must agree with you. History has shown what happens to those who do not agree with the communist state. The path of communism is a path of death. It is a system that lacks innovation, motivation and all of the good things in life. Individuals no longer are able to freely express themselves through artwork or literature, unless it is to glorify the revolution.
I just find it very saddening that after communism's crimes perpetrated in the the 20th century, there are still individuals that sugarcoat it, blaming the "capitalist education system" for spreading lies, etc. You guys that talk like this sound just like the Soviets did when they'd try to rewrite history and reeducate their people.
I know you'd probably never touch these books with a 10 foot pole because the ideas are so subversive to people like you. You label them as reactionary when in reality, they are the most radical ideas that have ever been conceived. The idea that individuals are free to choose their own path in life, that they are allowed to pick their career of choice, start their own companies, make money and keep their money. They are free to compete with other companies and they are free to cooperate with other companies.
It's unfortunate that the United States has gotten off the path of respecting the rights of individuals as well. We have two parties that both believe in the power of government to fix people and problems. Neither of these parties are the answer. Neither is radical communism or socialism.
The only system that is philosophically sound is free market capitalism because it is a naturally occurring phenomenon when two individuals decide to trade goods or services voluntarily because it both benefits them. It is a system of bottom up organization rather than top down central planning. There is too much information to process in an economy and this is why centrally planned economies never have enough of anything. Say what you want about consumerism and people buying things they don't need, but I'll ask you this: Why do you think you know what's best for everyone?
Why not let individuals decide what is best for themselves, even if you disagree with it?
Thus at the end of the day, if you want to control people's lives, you are nothing more than fascists, looking to quash any individual's rights in order to create a perfect society of collectivists.
Books to read:
The Road to Serfdom by Hayek
Free to Choose by Friedman
I guarantee it will blow your mind and I know you'll be red in the face with anger because there is nothing you can do to refute these ideas, unless you truly believe in forcing other people to live under your system of colorless expression and death for those that speak out against it. If you believe this, then you are truly evil people.
Thankfully I know you are all (mostly) just confused. It's fun to believe in something subversive. I went through a strong socialist phase in my high school years until I was about 23. And then I grew up, experienced the world, read some real books and understand human nature more than a communist will ever. See, free market capitalism doesn't try to create the perfect man who gives up his own happiness for the collective. Free market capitalism realizes that human beings when able to live freely not only are the most productive, but also the most happy. Those people that envy the success of others are the ones who are so easily converted and taken by leftist thought.
Hope you all enjoy my post. I hope I don't get deleted for such thoughts.
Thank you.