Anarcism in Ukraine

[ReggaeCat]

Somebody give me some sources about the anarchism in ukraine and in what scale it was made...i mean it was like the spanish civil war or something more smaller or greater....i haven't found nothing in google and stuff...:blushing:

[Sasha]

you should read "anarchy's cossaks" (http://www.akpress.org/2003/items/nestormakhnoanarchyscossack).

but some decent short stuff can be found on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory_(Ukraine)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_Insurrectionary_Army_of_Ukraine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno

[ReggaeCat]

interesting...did makhno had done for real those things bolsheviks charged him??

[Sasha]

what: fighting an highly succesfull campaing against both the white and red army? then yes. Being an anti-semite babarian? then no.

[ReggaeCat]

Moscow justified its hostility to Makhno and the anarchists by claiming that

Makhno's anarchist army and state had no free elections to the general command staff, with all commanders up to company commander appointed by Makhno and the Anarchist Revolutionary War Council;
Makhno had refused to provide food for Soviet railwaymen and telegraph operators (an attempt to capitalize on Makhno's view of railroads as capitalist frivolities);
there was a ‘special section’ in the Anarchist Revolutionary Military Council constitution that dealt with disobedience and desertion "secretly and without mercy” (this objection was made in spite of the fact that Special Punitive Brigades of the Bolshevist Red Army had already been shooting deserters and members of their families since 1918);
that Makhno's forces had raided Red Army convoys for supplies, and had failed to pay for an armored car seized from Briansk;
that the Nabat was responsible for deadly acts of terrorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_uprisings_against_the_Bolsheviks) in Russian cities (a reference to attempts on the lives of Bolshevik officials by independent anarchists and other dissident leftist groups unrelated to either Makhno or the Nabat).

[lombas]

No, not the platformists again, please.

You are all anarchists now!
___ (cheering)
And you are part of the workers' front!
___ (cheering)
And you will obey the orders of the anarchists' union or be shot dead as reactionaries!
...

Somewhere, th picture gets blurred.

[ls]

No, not the platformists again, please.

You are all anarchists now!
___ (cheering)
And you are part of the workers' front!
___ (cheering)
And you will obey the orders of the anarchists' union or be shot dead as reactionaries!
...

Somewhere, th picture gets blurred.

Excellent stuff, did you know that platformism or the platform didn't even exist then? Still well done for your very informative post 10/10- would recommend to a friend

[ReggaeCat]

so are those things that bolsheviks said true or not?

[nuisance]

so are those things that bolsheviks said true or not?
This link should clear up alot of the Bolshy accusations
http://www.infoshop.org/faq/append46.html

[Stranger Than Paradise]

This site is good:
http://www.nestormakhno.info

[Delenda Carthago]

reggaecat,search @ athens indymedia for Makhno.There are tons of texts and analyses about him in greek.

[Ismail]

For a Leninist view of Makhno, see: http://www.isreview.org/issues/53/makhno.shtml

Also check out The Makhnovshchina, 1917-1921: Ideology, Nationalism, and Peasant Insurgency in Early Twentieth Century Ukraine by Colin M. Darch (http://www.colindarch.info/index.htm). IIRC you can contact him for the full thing (sans pictures, etc.) which is about 350 pages PDF. Ask Intelligitimate (http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=11655) about contacting Darch.

[ContrarianLemming]

to put it simply: no, the leninists lied about machno, hes a hero up there with Durruti, hen ever raped anyone, he was very against jew hating (he actually killed a comrade for heading an anti semetic pogrom)
that siad, he wasn't perfect, i know he appointed some of his friends to the black army council

[Kayser_Soso]

Somebody give me some sources about the anarchism in ukraine and in what scale it was made...i mean it was like the spanish civil war or something more smaller or greater....i haven't found nothing in google and stuff...:blushing:

It was actually a bigger failure than the epic anarchist fail in Spain.

[ContrarianLemming]

It was actually a bigger failure than the epic anarchist fail in Spain.

i suppose your a stalinist?

[Sasha]

bolshevism, succesfully protecting the nationstate, imperialism and capitalism from actual communism for a century.:rolleyes:

[Kayser_Soso]

i suppose your a stalinist?

No such thing exists.

[Kayser_Soso]

bolshevism, succesfully protecting the nationstate, imperialism and capitalism from actual communism for a century.:rolleyes:

Anarchism, failing to do anything for anybody, for well over a century. See what I did thar?

[Sasha]

well it isnt for lack of trying, shame that you lot stabbed the revolution in the back anytime we came close.

[Kayser_Soso]

well it isnt for lack of trying, shame that you lot stabbed the revolution in the back anytime we came close.

Yes, it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

[Искра]

Yes, it's always someone else's fault isn't it?
Yes, those damn revisionists ruined everything.

[ls]

Yes, it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

It's the fault of the people, so they should've been purged.

[Kayser_Soso]

Yes, those damn revisionists ruined everything.

The revisionists were within our movement. Mistakes were made(again, looking back with hindsight), which in the long run made conditions conducive to revisionists. This is called self-criticism.

[Искра]

The revisionists were within our movement. Mistakes were made(again, looking back with hindsight), which in the long run made conditions conducive to revisionists. This is called self-criticism.
Self-criticism would be Marxists-Leninist trying to see what's wrong in their theory and strategy because revisionist appeared in every movement and country and jet they were always on leading positions etc.

This what you wrote here is conspiracy theory about evil insiders called revisionist, evil Trots who wish to establish capitalism etc..... and they should be purged...

[FSL]

Self-criticism would be Marxists-Leninist trying to see what's wrong in their theory and strategy because revisionist appeared in every movement and country and jet they were always on leading positions etc.

This what you wrote here is conspiracy theory about evil insiders called revisionist, evil Trots who wish to establish capitalism etc..... and they should be purged...


They weren't demons appearing out of nowhere who wanted to destroy socialism along with justice, joy and laughter. There were still conflicts in the soviet union and other countries between manual and mental labour or between the city and the kolkhoz-dominated village . In these cases, revisionists represented the latter two.

Same conflicts are bound to appear in the future unless capitalism does us a favour and decides it will raise everyone's education and culture level in advance while at the same time completely dismantling small ownership.There is little chance of these things happening, but now we have the accumulated experience offered to us by the Soviet Union. The party was showing a certain short-sightedness after each battle had been won. The cost of being a pioneer. There had been liberal movements as early as the 13th century but only came to fruition centuries later. All in all, the party did a good job for the most part.

Marxism-Leninism remains a more advanced theory, if only becasue it doesn't seek to simply abolish any existing contradictions by a collective's decree and jump to communism thinking all it takes is wanting it.

[Искра]

Marxism-Leninism remains a more advanced theory, if only becasue it doesn't seek to simply abolish any existing contradictions by a collective's decree and jump to communism thinking all it takes is wanting it.
Still M-L failed several times and every time for same reason.

Aslo, your conclusion on anarchist theory of revolution is stupid and it just proves that you know shit about it. Anarchist theory of revolution doesn't mean that you woke up one day, you take your gun and go shoot some cappies and after that you sit around camp fire grilling potatoes in communism :rolleyes:

[Kayser_Soso]

Still M-L failed several times and every time for same reason.

Aslo, your conclusion on anarchist theory of revolution is stupid and it just proves that you know shit about it. Anarchist theory of revolution doesn't mean that you woke up one day, you take your gun and go shoot some cappies and after that you sit around camp fire grilling potatoes in communism :rolleyes:


Yes you are right, anarchist revolution these days means you dance in the street, make paper mache puppets, and smash windows of Starbucks.

But seriously, it's really funny seeing anarchists point out the "failures" of Marxism-Leninism. When you guys can pull of a successful revolution and actually contribute to the advancement of humankind, give me a ring.

[FSL]

Still M-L failed several times and every time for same reason.

Aslo, your conclusion on anarchist theory of revolution is stupid and it just proves that you know shit about it. Anarchist theory of revolution doesn't mean that you woke up one day, you take your gun and go shoot some cappies and after that you sit around camp fire grilling potatoes in communism :rolleyes:


So anarchists don't propose abolishing trade and the distribution of products based on people's needs? Are all small owners going to be willing to see their shops/land nationalized? Are all surgeons or professors or software developers going to be ready to gain as much as anyone else?

What part am I missing?