What do you say to people who think that regulated capitalism does not exploit worker

[tradeunionsupporter]

What do you say to people who think that regulated capitalism does not exploit workers ?

[lombas]

First of all, that a regulated economy based on private ownership of the means of production can in no way be compared to a system based on common (or no) ownership of the means of production. The first obviously does not grant workers the freedom of influence and cooperation, they are thus "exploited" by those holding ownership - for whom they have no other choice but to work.

[Kayser_Soso]

You can regulate capitalism at times, but the exploitation is still there, and the resources and influence are monopolized in the hands of those who stand to benefit from the removal of any regulations placed on them.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

Exploitation comes from the fact that capitalists have ownership of the means of production, and workers do not.

No amount of regulation can change that fact.

[ComradeMan]

What do you say to people who think that regulated capitalism does not exploit workers ?


It depends who they are. Do you mean capitalists in the normal sense, or anarcho-capitalists?

But it's easy- unless goods or work for goods are exchanged fairly then there is exploitation.

I do not have all the stats and equations but a rough example would be this:-
Car company

1000 workers

15000 cars produced per annum that's $750,000,000 if they sell all models

Each car sells for $50,000

Each worker earns $15,000 per annum that's $15,000,000 wage bill

This leaves a surplus of $735,000,000

Now, if we say it costs $10,000,000 to run the factory and say another $10,000,000 for the insurance, costs etc we still have $725,000,000 !!!!

Does that seem like a fair exchange for goods and work?

Now, I have just made up this figures and I am sure an economic theorists would pull them to bits but the point is basically that...

[RGacky3]

regulated slavery.

If the law requires you to give slaves 4 meals a day, a good home, weekends off and only a 6 hour day, its still slavery.

Exploitation is still exploitation if the workers do not control their own means of production, if profit is being made out of their work, its exploitation.

Now is regulated capitalism better than unregulated? Depends, but its still exploitation.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

The employer-employee relationship is fundamentally exploitative, you can't change that, you can only seek to mitigate the effects of it.

[tradeunionsupporter]

When I say regulated capitalism Im talking abbout minimum wage laws I know that people can't live on minimum wage but when if Government required that the capitalists must pay workers a living wage.

[Drace]

Capitalists must exploit to be able to make a profit

[Kayser_Soso]

When I say regulated capitalism Im talking abbout minimum wage laws I know that people can't live on minimum wage but when if Government required that the capitalists must pay workers a living wage.

They would just use their connections and control of the media, plus their lobbying power and access to politicians to eventually overturn those laws. What's more; with the mass media and think tanks to produce doctored studies, they can actually convince a large portion of the working class that things like living wages are actually against their interests. They have been doing just that in the States for two decades now.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

When I say regulated capitalism Im talking abbout minimum wage laws I know that people can't live on minimum wage but when if Government required that the capitalists must pay workers a living wage.
Capitalists must exploit their workers in order to make a profit. Profits are the difference between what workers produce and what they get back (in the form of wages). Government regulation can reduce exploitation by making wages higher and profits smaller. But, if you want to get rid of exploitation completely, then profits must be driven down to zero - and that cannot happen within capitalism, no matter how regulated.