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blake 3:17
21st December 2009, 02:36
Israel admits harvesting Palestinian organs


Ian Black (http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/ianblack), Middle East editor
guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/), Sunday 20 December 2009 21.46 GMT
Article history (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/20/israel-admits-harvesting-palestinian-organs#history-byline)
Israel (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/israel) has admitted that pathologists harvested organs from dead Palestinians, and others without the consent of their families – a practice that it said ended in the 1990s, it emerged at the weekend.
The admission, by the former head of the country's forensic institute, followed a furious row prompted by a Swedish newspaper reporting that Israel was killing Palestinians in order to use their organs – a charge that Israel denied and called "antisemitic".

The revelation, in a television documentary (http://www.mako.co.il/news-israel/health/Article-2f068ab0353a521004.htm), is likely to generate anger in the Arab and Muslim world and reinforce sinister stereotypes of Israel and its attitude to Palestinians. Iran's state-run Press TV tonight reported the story, illustrated with photographs of dead or badly injured Palestinians.
Ahmed Tibi, an Israeli Arab MP, said the report incriminated the Israeli army.

The story emerged in an interview with Dr Yehuda Hiss, former head of the Abu Kabir forensic institute near Tel Aviv. The interview was conducted in 2000 by an American academic who released it because of the row between Israel and Sweden over a report in the Stockholm newspaper Aftonbladet.

Channel 2 TV reported that in the 1990s, specialists at Abu Kabir harvested skin, corneas, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli citizens, Palestinians and foreign workers, often without permission from relatives.

The Israeli military confirmed to the programme that the practice took place, but added: "This activity ended a decade ago and does not happen any longer."

Hiss said: "We started to harvest corneas ... whatever was done was highly informal. No permission was asked from the family."

However, there was no evidence that Israel had killed Palestinians to take their organs, as the Swedish paper reported. Aftonbladet quoted Palestinians as saying young men from the West Bank and Gaza Strip had been seized by the Israeli forces and their bodies returned to their families with missing organs. The interview with Hiss was released by Nancy Sheppard-Hughes, professor of anthropology at the University of California-Berkeley who had conducted a study of Abu Kabir.
She was quoted by the Associated Press as saying that while Palestinians were "by a long shot" not the only ones affected, she felt the interview must be made public, because "the symbolism, you know, of taking skin of the population considered to be the enemy, [is] something, just in terms of its symbolic weight, that has to be reconsidered."

Israel demanded that Sweden condemn the Aftonbladet article, calling it an antisemitic "blood libel". Stockholm refused, saying that to so would violate freedom of speech in the country. The foreign minister then cancelled a visit to Israel, just as Sweden was taking over the EU's rotating presidency.

Hiss was removed from his post in 2004, when some details about organ harvesting were first reported, but he still works at the forensic institute.
Israel's health ministry said all harvesting was now done with permission. "The guidelines at that time were not clear," it said in a statement to Channel 2. "For the last 10 years, Abu Kabir has been working according to ethics and Jewish law."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/20/israel-admits-harvesting-palestinian-organs

#FF0000
21st December 2009, 04:45
Fucking nightmarish.

Uncle Ho
21st December 2009, 04:57
Israel could kill a billion people because Ariel Sharon got a hangnail, and if anyone dared to speak out against it, they would be an anti-semite.

I'm almost proud to be called an anti-semite these days, as it means I oppose the biggest group of genocidal maniacs since the last big anti-semite.

Drace
21st December 2009, 05:40
Fucking disgusting when they try to deny shit with more shit.
Anything anti-Jewish is now anti-Semite? Hitler gave the Jews an excuse for imperialism.

I wonder how this news will be received in Stormfront. :(

khad
21st December 2009, 05:44
Well, well, well, didn't the lot of you Zionists and ultra-lefts call this story a fabrication when it first broke?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-harvesting-palestinian-t115647/index.html

Way to fucking go.

Drace
21st December 2009, 05:47
May I ask what use them have of the organs?

9
21st December 2009, 06:49
What the hell. I thought the claims in the Aftonbladet article (abducting living people, killing them for their organs, and returning the bodies – with missing organs – to the families) were pretty specious, but seeing as the Israeli government itself has now admitted that these claims are at least partially true (i.e. organs being harvested from dead Palestinians), I see little reason to doubt the possibility that they may well be entirely true. Add one more atrocity to a very long list.

IsItJustMe
21st December 2009, 07:04
Let's do a little walk of shame, shall we? I can well understand people like Apikoros who were hesitant to accept this. It's very shocking. I can certainly understand people who wanted evidence before they decided. And indeed it may well be that part of the story is not true, though the fact that only part of it has so far been proven doesn't prove that.

But there were indeed a number of posters who attacked the article as a racist lie. Let's look at them, shall we?


yeah this article has already been debunked. You can support palestine without being completely credulous to every blood-libel like story about israel.

No information on his tendency.


OK, now this is utter and total bullshit —a “modern,” “progressive” and “revolutionary” version of the famous Blood Libel, that has been levelled against jews for nearly 2,000 years.

Trotskyist.


If you guys want to talk about organ harvesting in general, make a different threat without a title from an article based on anti-Semitic propaganda. (because that is what it is, not because criticizing Israel is anti-Semitic)
Or we can keep this on and make a couple posts with head lines of Gypsies Kidnap Children, and Reds Murder Innocents, with a link to some 1900s articles.

Party of Socialism and Liberation and Committee for a Workers International.


It's a variation on the "our enemies are cannibals" theme, and as another poster noted, the blood libel as well.

Kassama and SPUSA. (What the fuck? Maoist and Norman Thomasist?! I think the description for this tendency is "seriously fucking confused.")

Enjoy, everybody. To be honest, the tendency stuff doesn't really show anything... There were Trots on both sides of this, and the number of Trots above is probably just down to the number of Trots posting on the board. Whether CC members are overrepresented here is maybe another question...

Guerrilla22
21st December 2009, 07:07
They did it to their own soldiers and civillians too. I'd love to hear the justification for it. Don't worry though kids, they only did it in the 90's which was a super long time ago and they don't do it any more. :rolleyes:

Uncle Ho
21st December 2009, 08:23
They did it to their own soldiers and civillians too. I'd love to hear the justification for it. Don't worry though kids, they only did it in the 90's which was a super long time ago and they don't do it any more. :rolleyes:

Israel has a RIGHT to those organs, just like they have a RIGHT to actively pursue genocide on all neighboring people and call anyone who opposes it an anti-semite.

If you can't see this, you're clearly an anti-semite yourself, you filthy Nazi!

Wanted Man
21st December 2009, 10:27
I also hesitated to believe this story at first, but it was pretty obvious that some of this criticism came from pro-zionists who made accusations of "blood libel" and "Hamas propaganda", and who wanted to use the opportunity to censor any exposure of Israeli war crimes. This was briefly explained (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1525018&postcount=19) in the original thread as well.

I think it was right to be skeptical, but the virulent response along the lines of "this is just Hamas propaganda" says more about the people who made comments like this, than about anyone else.

Guerrilla22
21st December 2009, 10:47
Israel has a RIGHT to those organs, just like they have a RIGHT to actively pursue genocide on all neighboring people and call anyone who opposes it an anti-semite.

If you can't see this, you're clearly an anti-semite yourself, you filthy Nazi!

:p They were doing it to their OWN soldiers and civillians too. I already knew they ahd no regard for the Palestinians, but it also appears the have no regsrd for their own citizens as well.

Uppercut
21st December 2009, 13:07
Those fucking zionists....

Comrade Wolfie's Very Nearly Banned Adventures
21st December 2009, 13:36
Well thats certainly the most fucked up thing i've seen today.

Jimmie Higgins
21st December 2009, 13:51
Enjoy, everybody. To be honest, the tendency stuff doesn't really show anything... There were Trots on both sides of this, and the number of Trots above is probably just down to the number of Trots posting on the board. Whether CC members are overrepresented here is maybe another question...


Well, well, well, didn't the lot of you Zionists and ultra-lefts call this story a fabrication when it first broke?

I'm sorry, but what's the point of this? Failure to believe a wild story? Shall we have a witch-hunt against people who failed to see into the future - or people who failed to know the covered-up state secrets of Israel?

I hadn't read about this before this post, but honestly I probably would have thought it was a hoax or exaggeration too. It's a very sensational and crazy story and I don't think doubting the initial unsubstantiated reports tells us much about individual posters stance on Zionism.

No matter what horrific details of the occupation of Palestine or the US occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan pop-up, as radicals, our opposition to these things is based on our political understanding of the nature of these systems, not specific examples of whatever rotten fruit they produce.

If this story was not true, would Zionism be less horrific? If Abu Grade had not come to light would the US occupation of Iraq be any less worthy of opposition?

#FF0000
21st December 2009, 14:57
Well, well, well, didn't the lot of you Zionists and ultra-lefts call this story a fabrication when it first broke?

http://www.revleft.com/vb/israel-harvesting-palestinian-t115647/index.html

Way to fucking go.

Uh I think a lot of people were skeptical of the story at first, regardless of tendency. And even though I thought the story was likely true, I could definitely see why people would be suspicious of it at first.


What the fuck? Maoist and Norman Thomasist?! I think the description for this tendency is "seriously fucking confused."

People in the Kasama Project aren't all maoists, and I doubt everyone in the SPUSA are big fans of Norman Thomas.

Chambered Word
21st December 2009, 15:05
What the hell. I thought the claims in the Aftonbladet article (abducting living people, killing them for their organs, and returning the bodies – with missing organs – to the families) were pretty specious, but seeing as the Israeli government itself has now admitted that these claims are at least partially true (i.e. organs being harvested from dead Palestinians), I see little reason to doubt the possibility that they may well be entirely true. Add one more atrocity to a very long list.

It's plausible. What else is Israel hiding from the public?

Oops, I'm an anti-Semite now! :)

Revy
21st December 2009, 15:27
I'll just leave this here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringworm_affair)

Sasha
21st December 2009, 16:22
about the OP; disgusting and horrible is all i can say.

but
Israel could kill a billion people because Ariel Sharon got a hangnail, and if anyone dared to speak out against it, they would be an anti-semite.

I'm almost proud to be called an anti-semite these days, as it means I oppose the biggest group of genocidal maniacs since the last big anti-semite.

the depts of your stupidity is beyond comprehension.
while the conduct of israel in israel itself is downright apartheid and in the occupied terrotories are war crimes and in the case of the blokade of gaza might even be called genocidal (light), calling israel "the biggest group of genocidal maniacs since the last big anti-semite" is beyond stupid.
Cambodja, Rwanda, Bosnia, Vietnam ring any bells for starters?

oh and khad:

the lot of you Zionists

please suply me with that exstensive list of zionist on this forum, i'm realy curious because i havent met one yet that wasnt banned.
oh, wait, people accepting the state of israel as an reality (like the US and Australia and any other setler state) where we have to deal with (even if its through reformism, like in south africa) are zionist in your stupidity. In that case i guess i just stop all the work, time and money i put in combating the occupation and apartheid and just join CIDI/AIPAC.

freepalestine
21st December 2009, 16:55
Well, well, well, didn't the lot of you Zionists and ultra-lefts call this story a fabrication when it first broke?

.yes ... quite right

Yehuda Stern
21st December 2009, 21:06
I'm glad there's finally conclusive evidence for this. Should shut the Zionists up a bit. This should teach people here a lesson: never believe that there's any action that's too low for the Zionists.