East Germany's lower average wages

[Muzk]

Okay, I've already started putting my own theory together, it goes like this:


Because of the €, commodities all over the european states have, first of, the same labour power inside them... So, if the east germans have less jobs available to them, the consumerism is somewhat low, and therefore the average wage is low too because the big business wouldn't find any customers?:confused:

My economics teacher had an awesome answer: East germans are lazy because they had nothing to do in the GDR. This is probably as epic as her explanation of poor countries: They don't have any police forces so big business doesn't invest into them. o_o

Any thoughts on this matter?

[Drace]

East germans are lazy because they had nothing to do in the GDR. This is probably as epic as her explanation of poor countries: They don't have any police forces so big business doesn't invest into them. o_oI'm sorry all I can contribute to this thread is LOL WTF?
How did they have nothing to do under the GDR? What does police force have to do with investment?

1st grade economist teacher?

[Muzk]

I'm sorry all I can contribute to this thread is LOL WTF?
How did they have nothing to do under the GDR? What does police force have to do with investment?

1st grade economist teacher?


Yes, an east german told me they worked hard as hell in the GDR, men and almost all the women, because they had to build the countries economy on their own, while the west had america backing them up.

My teacher... yes... studied mainstream economics, probably still desperately looking for answers. The answers lie in marxism.

[syndicat]

Your teacher would take that position because, in conventional neoclassical (AKA bourgeois) economics, wages are a function of productivity. So if wages are lower, must be because they're less productive. But in the USA productivity has gone up 50% since the early '70s and real wages have gone down. People are working harder and longer but getting less. This refutes the claim of bougeois economics.

[mykittyhasaboner]

East Germans was always worse off than Western Germans, even before the second world war and following division.

After the war, most of Eastern Germany was destroyed, much more so than the West, and this added to the imbalance of development. Essentially the East Germans had to start from scratch with their development, while the rest of Germany, portioned by Western imperialism, got endless subsidies and sure market imports. Now that Germany is "re-unified", it's gone the same way. It's even been proven that east Germans read much more Marx than west Germans. :D:p It's not exactly fair for your teacher to say anything like that, but I'm not surprised. Next time just explain why she's wrong.

edit: this (http://gowans.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/democracy-east-germany-and-the-berlin-wall/) source has a lot of good information, I'd recommend you check it out.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

Okay, I've already started putting my own theory together, it goes like this:




http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g51/aventham/Horror/Suicide.jpg

[Muzk]

wtf is that supposed to mean? btw thats just disgusting

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g51/aventham/Horror/Suicide.jpg
She looked nice as well:(

OT: Little more needs to be added to this thread, but a nice example of the idiocy of the little minions of Capitalism.

[Comrade Martin]

edit: this (http://gowans.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/democracy-east-germany-and-the-berlin-wall/) source has a lot of good information, I'd recommend you check it out.

Articles like this like to take "little bits" of truth and spin a whole "web" of nonsense out of it.

What's going on with east vs. west Germany right now is no different than southern Italy or the southern United States after reunification.

Yes, the sides in each division have been historically disparate... not because one is "more rich" than the other, but because one side has always been ahead of the material development "curb."

Not just quantitatively, but qualitatively.

There must be a reason that east Germans don't vote en masse for the Socialist Unity Party or its most direct reincarnation, Die Linke...

Why not?

Suggesting that they're "fooled" by the west somehow would be unrealistic; you're gonna tell me these people lived their whole lives being "better off," and now as things "suck," they'll forget their lives prior to reunification?

If Socialism was so good, why did nobody fight for it? And I don't mean "polemics" in the "party paper" - or "voting" in a "poll."

I mean slinging an AK-47 and "taking to the hills", so to speak... I literally do those things sometimes, and this isn't even a "revolutionary period" yet!

Granted, you will find your nostalgic types - people who "miss" the "old days"... but you've got "the South will rise again" crowd here in the 'States too.

Everyone else around them is writing them off just the same.

I assert they have the same reason: the system they represent is a stage behind Capitalism, not after it.

As the Russian joke goes, "Socialism is the longest road to Capitalism."

Maybe some "visual representations" will demonstrate this point more clearly. These are from 1990:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1492928,00.jpg

Yep, those are coal bricks... In 1990.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1492853,00.jpg

I'll admit that the decay is pretty... but its still decay... the kind people were living in.

It's no wonder that the easterners are leaving these ruins to the west... in droves!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1373733.stm

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1492922,00.jpg

Remember, guys... 1990!

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1492890,00.jpg

"Paradise!"

Say what some may, and what this articles does...

But I'm willing to bet most "Ostalgia" doesn't include this as part of its itinerary...

Kinda like how people have been confused in to remembering the Reagan years as "pleasant!"

My point isn't to paint Capitalism as "lovely" - but it is and was much better for most east Germans than what you see pictured above.

Just ask some!

[anticap]

Granted, you will find your nostalgic types - people who "miss" the "old days"...

You mean most of them (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,634122,00.html)?

[Comrade Martin]

You mean most of them (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,634122,00.html)?

I stand corrected; a lot has changed since the last time I felt that "tingling" urge to see whether or not East Germans forgot what the DDR was like yet.

How depressing.

East Germany has always had one of the stronger nostalgia crowds than the rest of the former Soviet bloc. Try finding similar sentiments in Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania... You'll be much harder pressed to.

But history is full of odd occasions where people will long for a bygone era of reaction... Based on real problems with the present situation.

Why do you think all the poor and impoverished people in the Southern United States want a return to the Confederacy? It's not because they necessarily support a slave society (though some whites do; and conversely, I've met black pro-Confederates) - but because its the only other identity they're used to, and they cling to it as an alternative.

So with the world Capitalist economy in crisis, you suddenly see a spike in enthusiasm for the "recently departed" old East German oligarchy - I'm not entirely surprised... But it would be better if the people in East Germany called for the abolition of wage-slavery - instead of demanding to be enslaved by the state versus private Capitalists.

[anticap]

East Germany has always had one of the stronger nostalgia crowds than the rest of the former Soviet bloc. Try finding similar sentiments in Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Albania, Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania... You'll be much harder pressed to.

Well, here's one tale from Hungary, which is at least as anecdotally valuable as your photos from Germany: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221064/Oppressive-grey-No-growing-communism-happiest-time-life.html

And here's one analysis showing that the rest of the former Eastern bloc is even less convinced of the benefits of free-market capitalism (and its accompanying form of "democracy") than are the former East Germans, with approval falling across the board: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125717785492623069.html

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-EU532_COMMPO_NS_20091102210717.gif

That last link, showing most former East Germans favorable toward the change, seems to partly contradict the one from my previous post, which showed them nostalgic for the past. This suggests that the situation isn't black and white, however you choose to approach it. I think it's fair to say that while people are glad for the improvements, such as they are, they're not so foolish as to swallow the mantra whole. They know from firsthand experience that the new is not all good, and the old was not all bad, despite what the high-priests of Capital keep telling them (and the rest of us).