Do you believe there are government agents watching this and similar boards?

[Buffalo Souljah]

I know in the 1970's, there was heavy surveillance of "terrorist" groups like the Black Panther Party through the COINTELPRO program, as well as the FBI proper and the CIA proper (though COINTELPRO was a joint program between the two orgs specifically for Counterintelligence, hence the name). Since the Department of Homeland Security was begun in 2001, the federal government has drastically increased its ability to monitor, surveille, and to some extent, control what information is accessed through mediums like telephones and the Internet (they can even look into what books you've checked out at the library, for goodness sake), so I don't doubt there is a very serious possiblity that what's posted on sitews like this can be gathered in your FBI (etc.) files. I think it's a very real suspicion.

[Buffalo Souljah]

can I erase this thread?

[Bitter Ashes]

At the very least there is evidence, from first hand accounts, that the British police force monitors this forum, so I wouldnt be suprised if MI5 and special branch were watching too (especially seeing as though planning to subvert is still a criminal offence in the UK and the Terrorism Act (2000) is also targetted at those who seek to redistribute or abolish property for political reasons)

In the United States, the FBI and NSA openly admit to using software such as Carnavore to monitor websites. The CIA is likely watching too.

In fact, I'd probably say that there's more feds reading Revleft at any one time than the left! lol

[Delenda Carthago]

Not only they do read,but I m pretty positive they write also,in order to spread disinfo and noise in our communication.But who cares?

[Black Sheep]

Not only they do read,but I m pretty positive they write also,in order to spread disinfo and noise in our communication.
This.I have a couple of pretty popular users in mind already.:glare:

[punisa]

I sincerely doubt it. Maybe some people secretly wish that we are indeed that "dangerous" to the current economic model, but as I said before - I doubt it.
If we were structured as a collective and had defined set of goals, then we would probably be a target for up close monitoring.

As of now, for any secret service it only takes about 30 minutes of browsing the threads to see that we are very disconnected and usually in "war" with each other.
Trotskyists, Stalinists, Anarchists, Bolsheviks, Soc.Democrats, vanguards, anti-vanguards etc etc etc.
Currently we are pretty much a mess. But I believe this might change eventually.

[Andropov]

Dont be a fool, of course this site is watched along with the majority of Political forums.
On a popular Republican internet site information was taken by the Special Branch and used to convict a 17 year old lad of the shooting of a peeler in Craigavon only there a year or so ago.
Also prominent members of the IRSP have been dragged into barracks and posts they made on the internet have been quoted to them.
Make no mistake about it, we are being watched, files are compiled and information is collected.

[ComradeMan]

The whole of the net is watched, your text messages are monitored, your phonecalls too. With satellites they can watch you at home.

George Orwell was right in a way....

[mikelepore]

If law enforcement personnel watch the street, the parking lot, and the park, why wouldn't they also watch internet sites? It's just another public thoroughfare that has a lot of people coming and going.

[Conscript]

I doubt it. Only when the socialist movement gains the momentum it needs and its influence starts to become a threat to the exploitative mode of production will we have something hovering over our back.

[cyu]

As Ghandi said: “First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.”

First they ignore you: They think you're insignificant and have better things to worry about.

Then they laugh at you: They still think you're insignificant, but have taken notice - either that, or they think they can get others to condemn you by ridiculing you.

Then they fight you: Now they see you as a real threat to the existing order. The harder they try, the more they believe you are able to change things.

Then you win: This part is pretty obvious =]

...sometimes there's another step after that: Then they say they were always on your side all along.

Anyway, since politics is all about propaganda, I'd say whatever posts you make should have enough appeal to at least cause cognitive dissonance in the pro-capitalist agents who come here, if not make them doubt capitalism enough to make leaks to the media or internet.

[New Tet]

Yeah, they're watching and probably laughing their asses off at the many idiocies some of us post here.

[Kovacs]

There simply isn't the stasi-level apparatus for concerted surveillance of the internet. Not for StormFront, not for Revleft and not for the myriad inbetweeners.

[Drace]

I think the government has more important things to do guys.

[ls]

Obviously the government is watching, it would be idiotic to suggest otherwise.

Information is probably compiled on everyone who posts here, some more than others obviously, but yeah you need to watch what you post.

[ellipsis]

This.I have a couple of pretty popular users in mind already.:glare:

Oh do tell.

[Buffalo Souljah]

I know in the 1970's, there was heavy surveillance of "terrorist" groups like the Black Panther Party through the COINTELPRO program, as well as the FBI proper and the CIA proper (though COINTELPRO was a joint program between the two orgs specifically for Counterintelligence, hence the name). Since the Department of Homeland Security was begun in 2001, the federal government has drastically increased its ability to monitor, surveille, and to some extent, control what information is accessed through mediums like telephones and the Internet (they can even look into what books you've checked out at the library, for goodness sake), so I don't doubt there is a very serious possiblity that what's posted on sitews like this can be gathered in your FBI (etc.) files. I think it's a very real suspicion.

[mykittyhasaboner]

Yeah they do. The police monitor this site--at least in Britain, that much is known for sure. I don't know about any other agency or institution monitoring this and similar boards. They realize they can't do that much by just monitoring a message board, and it's not the most pressing or important thing they are involved in. Authorities certainly do monitor the internet, so why not "radical" internet sites advocating "extremism" or whatever buzzword you think fits.


In light of this, to all authorities monitoring this forum: Hello, and fuck off.

[IsItJustMe]

Yes they monitor this board. Yes they monitor Stormfront. Yes they infiltrate your group. Absolutely. Look at the recent discovery of the network of military spies in SDS.

[RedSonRising]

Yes, but not at any level we have to worry about. We're too fragmented to be a threat, but too radical to be ignored when I'm sure they can spare one semi-competent surveillance department assistant to browse the internet for signs of danger to the State, especially in these times! (shakes finger like skeptically bitter old man.)

I wouldn't worry too much about infiltration and disinformation on the boards; it's hard to imagine someone credibly familiar and comfortable enough with Revolutionary Theory and Class Struggle who doesn't believe in the stuff (it really is a science :laugh:) to have any influence. I'm sure we'd be able to identify someone trying to boggle information-based judgment with lies or misdirection.

[IsItJustMe]

I wouldn't worry too much about infiltration and disinformation on the boards; it's hard to imagine someone credibly familiar and comfortable enough with Revolutionary Theory and Class Struggle who doesn't believe in the stuff (it really is a science :laugh:) to have any influence. I'm sure we'd be able to identify someone trying to boggle information-based judgment with lies or misdirection.

I wouldn't bet on that. Not at all. If the Bolsheviks and the ANC could be infiltrated, you can too.

[the last donut of the night]

Even if the authorities are watching us, they have much more important shit to do, like cracking down on real dissent.

I doubt they really care about our discussions, really.

[The Ben G]

The PATRIOT act kinda lets the government do what ever they want. Basically your rights have been suspended.

[Uncle Ho]

As Ghandi said: “First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.”

First they ignore you: They think you're insignificant and have better things to worry about.

Then they laugh at you: They still think you're insignificant, but have taken notice - either that, or they think they can get others to condemn you by ridiculing you.

Then they fight you: Now they see you as a real threat to the existing order. The harder they try, the more they believe you are able to change things.

Then you win: This part is pretty obvious =]

...sometimes there's another step after that: Then they say they were always on your side all along.

Anyway, since politics is all about propaganda, I'd say whatever posts you make should have enough appeal to at least cause cognitive dissonance in the pro-capitalist agents who come here, if not make them doubt capitalism enough to make leaks to the media or internet.

It's important to keep in mind that Gandhi was also a hardcore racist and has been used as a tool of the bourgeoisie to sap the revolutionary spirit of the working class.

That said, I'm sure the CIA has automated surveillance of most everything they deem "dissident", but I really doubt we have case officers watching our every move.

[New Tet]

I know in the 1970's, there was heavy surveillance of "terrorist" groups like the Black Panther Party through the COINTELPRO program, as well as the FBI proper and the CIA proper (though COINTELPRO was a joint program between the two orgs specifically for Counterintelligence, hence the name). Since the Department of Homeland Security was begun in 2001, the federal government has drastically increased its ability to monitor, surveille, and to some extent, control what information is accessed through mediums like telephones and the Internet (they can even look into what books you've checked out at the library, for goodness sake), so I don't doubt there is a very serious possiblity that what's posted on sitews like this can be gathered in your FBI (etc.) files. I think it's a very real suspicion.

Here's something that recently appeared on the web:


Jon Stewart, host of the satirical programme The Daily Show, recently poked fun at a similar suggestion from a congressman that the web was freeing the peoples of Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran: “What, we could have liberated them over the internet? Why did we send an army when we could do it the same way we buy shoes?” Unfortunately, critical voices like his are rare. The majority of the media, so cranky when reporting the internet’s impact on their industry, keep producing tear-jerking examples of the marriage of political protest and social media. And what a list it is: Burmese monks defying an evil junta with digital cameras; Filipino teenagers using SMS to create a “textual revolution;” Egyptian activists using encryption to hide from the all-seeing-eye of the Mukhabarat; even Brazilian ecologists using Google maps to show deforestation in the Amazon delta. And did I mention Moldova, China and Iran? These cyber-dissidents, we are told, now take their struggles online, swapping leaflets for Twitter updates and ditching fax machines for iPhones.
http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2009/11/how-dictators-watch-us-on-the-web/

[lombas]

I ám a government agent but luckily have nicer things to do like attending receptions, having big-talk-meetings and doing lunches with my colleagues.

[the last donut of the night]

It's important to keep in mind that Gandhi was also a hardcore racist and has been used as a tool of the bourgeoisie to sap the revolutionary spirit of the working class.

Well, yes, you are right. However, the quote still applied.

[IllicitPopsicle]

Ten bucks Uncle Ho is a gov't agent.

[RedFruit]

Well, the German Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Police Office) wrote an article in an leftist underground magazine and tried to lure the readers to a covered BKA website which logged the IP addresses of the visitors in order to arrest "left-wing militants". So I'm pretty sure they are also watching this site, but not that much cause this site is mostly about theory and not about how to blow up the stock market in you country. ;)

This is what the Wikipedia-Article says (in german; I'm a bit busy so maybe someone else can translate it):
h**p://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_%28Zeitschrift%29#Verdeckte_Operation_des_ Bundeskriminalamts

Verdeckte Operation des Bundeskriminalamts

Das deutsche Bundeskriminalamt (BKA) beteiligte sich 2005 und 2006 mit zwei in der Interim veröffentlichten Schreiben unter dem Pseudonym „Die zwei aus der Muppetshow“ an der Militanzdebatte in der Interim.[10] Mit der geheimen Operation sollten Leser der Zeitschrift auf die Website des BKA geführt werden, um Erkenntnisse über die militante Gruppe zu gewinnen. Dort wurden 417 IP-Adressen der Besucher gespeichert und daraus 120 Nutzerdaten ermittelt, die bis 2009 zu keinen relevanten Ermittlungsergebnissen führten.[11]

[New Tet]

Ten bucks Uncle Ho is a gov't agent.

If I could be sure I knew which "Uncle Ho" you were referring to I'd take you up on the bet and insist you pay and/or leave this forum, chump.

[New Tet]

Well, the German Bundeskriminalamt (Federal Criminal Police Office) wrote an article in an leftist underground magazine and tried to lure the readers to a covered BKA website which logged the IP addresses of the visitors in order to arrest "left-wing militants". So I'm pretty sure they are also watching this site, but not that much cause this site is mostly about theory and not about how to blow up the stock market in you country. ;)

This is what the Wikipedia-Article says (in german; I'm a bit busy so maybe someone else can translate it):
h**p://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interim_%28Zeitschrift%29#Verdeckte_Operation_des_ Bundeskriminalamts

Yes, the police, acting as agents of capitalist political interests, will help to muddle the "theory" so it can "blow up the stock market" when it has to and later blame someone else for it. It's been happening for a long time now.

August Bebel gave an interesting talk about it way back in 1898. There, he attempted to connect certain terrorist actions in Europe as the work of contending police agencies using "anarcho-syndicalist" fronts.


"The summer of 1894 arrived with the assassination of President Carnot, of France, by Caserio, in Lyons. One is justified in asking, Is it any of Germany’s business if somebody is assassinated in a neighboring country? No German statesmen were either directly or indirectly concerned in the affair. Nobody from any quarter whatever had even attempted to insinuate as much. And still, the fact that a foreign Anarchist in a foreign country committed the deed sufficed to set the German capitalists in motion against the small handful of German Anarchists—but still more against the so-much-hated Social Democracy."
Boris Reinstein’s translation of August Bebel’s 1898 address Assassinations and Socialism was published in the New York Daily Peopleof Sunday, April 19, 1908 (Weekly People of Saturday, April 28, 1908) and as a New York Labor News Company pamphlet under the same title in May of that year.
http://www.slp.org/pdf/others/assass_ab.pdf

[Pogue]

I know in the 1970's, there was heavy surveillance of "terrorist" groups like the Black Panther Party through the COINTELPRO program, as well as the FBI proper and the CIA proper (though COINTELPRO was a joint program between the two orgs specifically for Counterintelligence, hence the name). Since the Department of Homeland Security was begun in 2001, the federal government has drastically increased its ability to monitor, surveille, and to some extent, control what information is accessed through mediums like telephones and the Internet (they can even look into what books you've checked out at the library, for goodness sake), so I don't doubt there is a very serious possiblity that what's posted on sitews like this can be gathered in your FBI (etc.) files. I think it's a very real suspicion.

Yes, I am one of them. I know to pay special attention to you now.

[New Tet]

Not only they do read,but I m pretty positive they write also,in order to spread disinfo and noise in our communication.But who cares?

The Gangs of New York, it seems to me.

[bcbm]

I ám a government agent but luckily have nicer things to do like attending receptions, having big-talk-meetings and doing lunches with my colleagues.

Yes, I am one of them. I know to pay special attention to you now.

i don't really think joking about being a cop is very funny.


Ten bucks Uncle Ho is a gov't agent.bad-jacketing in a thread that mentions cointelpro and government efforts to sow distrust and suspicion in radical movements is pretty poor form too. please cut it out.

[Pogue]

i don't really think joking about being a cop is very funny.

bad-jacketing in a thread that mentions cointelpro and government efforts to sow distrust and suspicion in radical movements is pretty poor form too. please cut it out.

Why is it not very funny when its so obivously a joke?

[bcbm]

because it isn't always a joke and people you trust turn out to be snitches or worse and try to send your friends to jail.

[lombas]

i don't really think joking about being a cop is very funny.


"Police officer" = "government agent"
"Government agent" =/= "police officer"

I'm an archivist for an intergovernmental and supranational organisation. Not a cop.

[bcbm]

what does that mean exactly?

[ls]

"Police officer" = "government agent"
"Government agent" =/= "police officer"

I'm an archivist for an intergovernmental and supranational organisation. Not a cop.

You mean you're Hoover?

[lombas]

You mean you're Hoover?

Got me there.

[lombas]

what does that mean exactly?

It means I wasn't joking about being a cop but joking about being a government agent.

[IrishWorker]

There are men in prison today in Ireland and some of the evidence used to keep them there are posts they made on Irish Republican forums.

Be under no illusion every post and every member of this site is monitored.

[pastradamus]

This site is definetly being monitored. We are constantly visited by .Gov and .Mil sources and have been since the foundation of this board. Its nothing to worry about though. There is nothing wrong with people voicing their political viewpoint so forget about them.

[cyu]

We are constantly visited by .Gov and .Mil sources and have been since the foundation of this board


I wonder if anybody there is allowed to visit revleft, or if only the agents tasked with monitoring are allowed to see it, and your average rank-and-file Joe is blocked from accessing it.

[IrishWorker]

And don’t forget the bastards are probably reading your PMs.

[Ravachol]

So, in order to make their life even worse, we should all start communicating through tough, high-brow, post-modernist jargon refering to 'the-revleft-as-such' and 'the-revleft-in-itself' and the posts being a relation between the former and the latter instead of interconnected 'posts-in-themselves'... you know... :laugh:

[gorillafuck]

I heard George Bush watches us.

[blake 3:17]

Of course they're looking at this. It should also be assumed in any radical collective there are police agents. Sometimes they're plants, other times sincere in what they're doing initially but have skeletons in their closets that make them vulnerible to recruitment.

Many groups have imploded because of paranoia about this stuff. Just assume they're there and that's fine and carry on. Otherwise you get stuck in cat and mouse games, nobody knows who's who.

I had a funny exchange with a person who was really key in one collective. I asked if they thought it safe to talk about something over the phone. They just said they spoke to person X everyday (who was definitely under close police supervision), so yeah, just go ahead. Of course they had a tap. No reason to stop.

Someone else I knew who definitely had their phones tapped and closely monitored made a point of recounting sexual exploits in great detail.

The main problem they have is putting all the information together.

On a side note, I'm quite convinced that one poster on another lefty board is two or three different police/intelligence agents. Their writing style and opinions shift way too regularly.

[ellipsis]

bad-jacketing in a thread that mentions cointelpro and government efforts to sow distrust and suspicion in radical movements is pretty poor form too. please cut it out.
True, playing who is the narc can destroy a movement.

[Red Saxon]

I heard George Bush watches us.
We must keep vigilantistic to see if we can catchify him.

[Sleeper]

I think that this Forum as well as others are probably looked at, but not necessarily, "Watched." What I mean is that they probably stop here every now and again just to make sure nobody is planning some kind of violent protest or anything like that, but I don't think that they follow every single post, have around-the-clock surveillance of the site, or even really link our IP addresses to a physical location.

I can't really speak for other countries, but I can say that allowing freedom to have your own political opinion is one thing that the U.S. (Usually) does pretty well.

[Drace]

Thank Google for the translation, not me.


Covert operation of the Federal Criminal

The German Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) participated in 2005 and 2006 with two letters published in the interim under the pseudonym "The two should be from the Muppet Show" in the militancy debate in the interim. [10] The covert operation to readers of the magazine's website BKA will be conducted to gain knowledge about the militant group. There, 417 IP addresses of the visitors were saved, and it identified 120 users data which led to 2009 relevant to any investigation results.

[Bitter Ashes]

I like to play with the Carnavore program that's installed onto Google. I'll do a search for something like "Propaganda of the deed" and then open up another Google search with "Chemical fertisler wholesalers" and then finaly I'll open up another google search saying. "Only kidding" :laugh:

I then close all three pages and go back to whatever I was doing, while chuckling to myself that I probably just gave somebody in the NSA a heart attack. lol.

Nothing like a good old fashioned red herring

[The Red Next Door]

yep, so watch what you say.

[Communist]

They definitely are. Just quite recently a RevLeft member was harassed. I don't know where the original thread went but I found this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/re-police-monitoring-t118324/index.html?t=118324&highlight=police+monitoring).

[gorillafuck]

We must keep vigilantistic to see if we can catchify him.
http://www.revleft.com/vb/member.php?u=26903

I think I found him!

[Niall]

it wouldnt surprise me if they did. Sod em all anyway

[*Viva La Revolucion*]

I wish I knew why one member was called to be interviewed by the police. I don't know the extent to which Revleft is being monitored, but it's safe to say that someone somewhere reads this stuff. They could just have software which looks for key words and suspicious sounding phrases.

HI GOVERNMENT PEOPLE. SORRY YOU GOT THE BORING JOB. I THINK YOU SHOULD ALL BECOME COMMUNISTS BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE FUN. :lol:

[Artemis3]

Not just monitor, they also act to keep the movement fragmented, for the day workers unite, the system falls.

It is a work like any other, don't be worried about being boring. That said, there have been cases, if few or scattered, of agents actually sympathizing and even turning sides after learning new ideas etc. The agencies have strong controls to put them in check and minimize this, but it does occur.

[Wanted Man]

http://www.revleft.com/vb/police-monitoring-website-t117701/index.html

Nuff said.