Socialist Party of Great Britain

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Could somebody tell me about this organisation? I have heard virtually nil about them from other Socialists, and it is difficult to find much out about them, they don't seem to participate in direct action with other parties or movements, as far as I can tell.

[Q]

Could somebody tell me about this organisation? I have heard virtually nil about them from other Socialists, and it is difficult to find much out about them, they don't seem to participate in direct action with other parties or movements, as far as I can tell.

Isn't that all you really need to know?

You can read more about them on their website (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/).

[bailey_187]

Go speakers corner on a sunday when winters over. They have regular speaker there.

[The Idler]

Isn't that all you really need to know?

You can read more about them on their website (http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/).
They don't join front organisations and they don't adopt a Grand Old Duke of York strategy.
They do however hold regular debates with other parties on the left and also more mainstream groups.
I know which activity I think is more productive.

[mykittyhasaboner]

There a "socialist party" that denies that the October revolution had any significance for the proletariat, and they are a part of the "World Socialist Movement" which is basically a bunch of utopian socialists.

My advice--don't waste your time.

[The Idler]

There a "socialist party" that denies that the October revolution had any significance for the proletariat, and they are a part of the "World Socialist Movement" which is basically a bunch of utopian socialists. http://www.revleft.com/vb/socialist-party-great-t124969/index.html?p=1629296#post1629296

My advice--don't waste your time.
Yesterday they uploaded a talk on the Russian Revolution entitled A Model Not to Follow - watch it here (http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=09CC6A4202166A0D&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL). Discuss it here (http://www.revleft.com/vb/russian-revolution-model-t124928/index.html) as it is already being discussed on revleft.

[Pogue]

Interesting little outfit, a good example of trying to be ideologically pure regardless of how practical it is, in short, a nice bunch of useless people who would be better off elsewhere.

[The Idler]

Interesting little outfit, a good example of trying to be ideologically pure regardless of how practical it is, in short, a nice bunch of useless people who would be better off elsewhere.
That doesn't apply to the SPGB any more than it does to every other group on the left in the UK given how successful they all have been.

[Kovacs]

edit. wrong trot sect confusion. I thought the OP meant the orthodox SP

[bailey_187]

That doesn't apply to the SPGB any more than it does to every other group on the left in the UK given how successful they all have been.

yeah except the other groups on the left actually look to do something. the SPGB says everyone must have a full and (thier version of) a correct understanding of Marxism/Socialism before anything can happen.
They condemned May '68 because not everyone in France understood Marxism/Socialism as they do.

They are nice people though.

[Aesop]

I almost joined them lol(thank heaven that I found this site)

[Pogue]

That doesn't apply to the SPGB any more than it does to every other group on the left in the UK given how successful they all have been.

I disagree. The Socialist Party of England and Wales, the CWI one, as militant were definately very relevant/important, I'd say they still have a decent praxis today. Same goes for alot of anarchists.

[ls]

They come from the impossibilist tradition and the failed SDF which backed its own side in an imperialist war, so yeah not an amazing org, nice people in it tho. They still are a bit chauvinistic in some of their outloooks in fairness....

[Pogue]

They come from the impossibilist tradition and the failed SDF which backed its own side in an imperialist war, so yeah not an amazing org, nice people in it tho. They still are a bit chauvinistic in some of their outloooks in fairness....

I wouldn't say its chauvinism and theres no point alikening them to that SDF as the SPGB are committed to nto taking a side in any wars.

Its not chauvinism, its fluffy intellectualism, they have a sort of ideology you'd only expect to come out of Britain to be honest...either way its trivial intellectualism, detached from reality, its fine if you want to be a pure faction but useless if you want to acheive anything.

[h0m0revolutionary]

I disagree. The Socialist Party of England and Wales, the CWI one, as militant were definately very relevant/important, I'd say they still have a decent praxis today. Same goes for alot of anarchists.

So SPEW, who have the coppers are workers in uniform line, parliamentary road to socialism, love the Prison Officers Assosciation and do not seek the abolition of capitalism... have a decent praxis, but SPGB, who reject the vanguard notion, have the state capitalism line on the Soviet Union and reject national liberation.. are useless?

Historically SPGB are much more significant, politically, though i have my disagreements, they're a million times better than SPEW :/.

[Pogue]

So SPEW, who have the coppers are workers in uniform line, parliamentary road to socialism, love the Prison Officers Assosciation and do not seek the abolition of capitalism... have a decent praxis, but SPGB, who reject the vanguard notion, have the state capitalism line on the Soviet Union and reject national liberation.. are useless?

Historically SPGB are much more significant, politically, though i have my disagreements, they're a million times better than SPEW :/.

But this is excactly the perspective I am talking about. Your taking the line of simply comparing what one of their platforms is most desirable. Obviously I would agree that the SPGB line is better, theoretically, and obviously they have points I agree with which the SPEW would disagree with. Parts of their analysis are worse than the SPGB's. But the SPGBs praxis in actually acheiving socialism is far inferior to the SPEWs. How can you seriously beleive that voting for a revolution in the commons and the idea of everyone becoming a socialist for a revolution to happen is a viable position for acheiving revolution. Quite simply, the SPEW is alot more relevant, they have always been so, as they've actually done something.

[Die Neue Zeit]

The SPGB is a useless organization that focuses exclusively on "Educate" in "Educate, Agitate, Organize."

Unfortunately, there's a blind spot in their approach: their failure to consider the full slogan of Wilhelm Liebknecht has led them to have no political program at all.

On another note, they have a parliamentary road to socialism, which is a no-no.


How can you seriously beleive that voting for a revolution in the commons and the idea of everyone becoming a socialist for a revolution to happen is a viable position for acheiving revolution. Quite simply, the SPEW is alot more relevant, they have always been so, as they've actually done something.

The SPGB has a grossly mistaken position re. the communist mode of production and the DOTP. The political program of the DOTP must gain political support - electoral and especially otherwise - from the majority of the working class. Just because someone supports the DOTP a la Paris doesn't mean they support having the communist mode of production.

[Pogue]

Also note the crucial point is not who is the most ideologically pure but who is the most useful. I think we know who was more useful in Russia, the Bolsheviks or the anarchists, clearly it was the Bolsheviks. That doesn't mean the Bolsheviks had the better ideology, to the contrary I think Bolshevism is severely flawed, but the anarchists were not useful, they were not engaging with the working class the way the Bolsheviks were (thats not for all the anarchists, but most of them. There was a number of anarcho-syndicalists who did alot of good work and spoke on behalf of thousands of workers, mainly miners I believe, as detailed in The Bolsheviks and Workers Control, available on libcom), hence why the platform was written. My point is that the SPGB is useless because it can't engage with the working class, it is utopian, it just says what soudns the best regardless of how impractical it is. I think alot of groups are similar, such as the ICC and AFed, i.e. they just go for the most pure line regardless of how realistic it is, hence a number of good activists become locked up in organisations which basically aren't running to their full potential.

[Die Neue Zeit]

So why, then, do class-struggle anarchists not learn from the SPD model like the Bolsheviks did? [I know it belongs more to the Strategy thread on current strategy.]

[Pogue]

So why, then, do class-struggle anarchists not learn from the SPD model like the Bolsheviks did? [I know it belongs more to the Strategy thread on current strategy.]

What excactly do you mean?

[Wanted Man]

Don't they basically believe that the majority of the world population needs to agree with socialism, and then socialism will be voted in through the ballot box? :confused:

[Q]

Don't they basically believe that the majority of the world population needs to agree with socialism, and then socialism will be voted in through the ballot box? :confused:

Yeah, that's them.