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Andrei Kuznetsov
18th December 2009, 14:13
Has anyone noticed that far too many Marxists and Anarchist don't understand satire in the slightest- taking everything at face value or everything in fiction and art absolutely literally?

I have a huge problem: I have a very morbid, tongue-in-cheek sense of humor, and it has gotten me in trouble with my comrades of all tendencies many a time (especially when I was working in RCP circles). I'm just kinda wired to be a bit twisted, and it's something that just can't be helped...

I have sooooo many examples. To start, I must say I greatly enjoy the band Laibach. I'm a rivethead to the core, and Laibach is totally STOMP STOMP STOMP UBER EVIL STOMP STOMP STOMP XD. As you may know, Laibach is a peculiar bunch: they dress in Nazi-esque uniforms, sing in German (despite being Slovenian), have a distinct militaristic tone to their music, and pretend to be the dictators of their own fictional country- the NSK State. I loooove Laibach, and actually possess NSK State citizenship papers and passport.

However, at one point, I had to hide my fanboyishness toward Laibach; why you ask? Because my comrades in the RCP and in the local Anarchist collective thought that I was listening to a "Nazi band". I tried to explain many times to them that Laibach is a satire band pointing out the absurdity of fascism and has its roots in Dada- but it was always to no avail. Laibach was a Nazi band, I was obviously becoming attracted to fascism, I needed to stop, end of story. (Oh, and let's not even go into the debacle when they found my Death in June albums...)

I also am a morbid history dork, and possess 3 t-shirts that reflect that: a Jack The Ripper t-shirt, an Elizabeth Bathory shirt, and a Vlad the Impaler shirt. We all know what Ol' Saucy Jack did: he was "quite down on the whores and I shant quit ripping them until I am buckled". Countess Elizabeth Bathory murdered somewhere between 200-600 young girls in order to bathe in and drink their blood in hopes that it would help her achieve immortality and eternal beauty. Vlad the Impaler... well, yeah, he was fuckin' Dracula. However, because of this, some Anarchists in my city see me as a misogynist and think that I advocate gendercide. The humor of a goth history major- which they all know I am- is completely lost on them!

Oh, and then there was the time I put on a Black Mass at a Halloween party. To me, it was a fun way to make the party memorable and I did it in a way that was completely absurd. My apolitical and Anarchist friends found it to be hilarious and fun. To my comrades, in the RCP/RCYB however, it was nothing of the sort: I was obviously falling back on religion, and that I needed to study Avakian's and Marx's works on religion and materialism to get myself grounded back into Atheism. *facepalm*

Let me think... there were some other ones... oh, the time I came to another Halloween party dressed as Sir Oswald Moseley. THAT didn't go over so well (except with the two British guys that came- they loved it!). The time I won the Air Sex Competition at Anime Weekend Atlanta... that made me a sexist pervert... eh, the list is endless.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is this: I understand their are times and places for certain kinds of humor. You have to understand the sensibilities of certain audiences and delivery is also a major factor. You can't go acting like Borat in the middle of a group of Central Asians, or make Jewish jokes about the Holocaust among Jews. However, sometimes leftists frustrate me with their inability to understand ANY satire, tongue-in-cheek comedy, or ironic humor... even when it's blatantly obvious. It just seems completely lost on them, and it ends up making us look humorless and uptight to non-leftists. I swear, if Charlie Chaplin made The Great Dictator in this day and age, something tells me many leftists would denounce it as a fascist film and call Chaplin a Neo-Nazi!

So, I guess what my rant should end with is: c'mon guys. Get the stick out of your asses. We should be sensitive and tactful, but more importantly, let's not be dour or oblivious. Let's have fun. Let's be silly.

Let's learn to laugh.

The Ungovernable Farce
18th December 2009, 14:37
I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't hang out with the RCP.

Andrei Kuznetsov
18th December 2009, 14:40
I think the moral of the story is that you shouldn't hang out with the RCP.

I was in that shit for 6 years. I learned that lesson the hard way.

But it's not just confined to the RCP- as I said before, I've ruffled Anarchist feathers more than a few times. Get the sticks outta ya asses, everybody, I swear!

Tyrlop
18th December 2009, 21:12
damn your so right man, they act like fucking nazis would do, have no humor fuckin shat.

Andrei Kuznetsov
18th December 2009, 21:48
Actually I wouldn't go that far... most leftists I know are very jovial, fun people who act as fulfilling parts of my lives. However, far too many have senses of humor that lack the ability to comprehend satire/parody/irony, all of which are major components to modern day humor and are major components of my sense of humor.

Invincible Summer
19th December 2009, 03:53
Sparts were like that too... so glad I'm out of there

Andrei Kuznetsov
19th December 2009, 03:59
SPARTS?! Oh God, and I thought I had it bad... you poor bastard o.o;;

RHIZOMES
19th December 2009, 09:20
Sparts were like that too... so glad I'm out of there

Are you familiar with the Logan Dossier (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/900/logan.html)? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Apparently they're still going on about that like 30 years after they expelled him

Next time I'm in Wellington I want to meet him just because of the Logan Dossiers.

Os Cangaceiros
19th December 2009, 09:29
Logan was investigated by an International Control Commission, tried and found guilty of crimes against communist morality during his tenure as SL/ANZ national chairman and shown to be a “proven, massive liar and a sexual sociopath

WHAT A FUCKING LEGEND.

I want to meet him, too. :lol:

Rusty Shackleford
19th December 2009, 11:00
Satire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NKHJ64qRR8
/Satire

RHIZOMES
19th December 2009, 11:10
WHAT A FUCKING LEGEND.

I want to meet him, too. :lol:

According to my friend, some Sparts from Australia came over to a conference in NZ a while back and they were still going on about Bill Logan.

This is one of the biggest issues of political importance to them, a guy in New Zealand who they expelled 30 years ago.

Oh and I particular liked this bit


Logan was a product of this system in the small, neo-Victorian dominion of New Zealand.:lol::lol::lol:

An archist
19th December 2009, 11:16
I think it's just your friends that don't get satire, quite some leftists I know like to sing 'antifa hahaha' and other great songs out loud at parties.

BOZG
19th December 2009, 13:58
Are you familiar with the Logan Dossier (http://www.icl-fi.org/english/wv/900/logan.html)? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Apparently they're still going on about that like 30 years after they expelled him

Next time I'm in Wellington I want to meet him just because of the Logan Dossiers.

I have both the old and new versions of the Dossier. Someone from the British IBT moved here a few years back so they went on overdrive with the Logan dossier for a period to denounce him!

It's actually an extremely odd document. I'm not even sure if most of it relates to anything other than pointing out that Jim Robertson is a very strange fucker indeed. Some of it is actually just droning rants by Robertson about nothing as well as some crude, racist jokes made by him.

In fact, the Logan Dossier just makes the Sparts seem like a bunch of deranged lunatics rather than convincing you of Logan's sexual deviance.

I love how they emphasise the International Control Commission's decision and that it also included an independent witness, who's name I can't remember but he was a Sri Lankan Trotskyist. They like to point out that he was in agreement with their decision about Logan but conveniently forget to point out that he made a number of criticisms about the ICL's own leadership as well.

Andrei Kuznetsov
19th December 2009, 17:00
I think it's just your friends that don't get satire, quite some leftists I know like to sing 'antifa hahaha' and other great songs out loud at parties.

Well as I've said before, it didn't help that I originally came from a particularly stringent tendency... but I really honestly don't think it's just the RCP, or just the local Anarchists... I've encountered it in other cities in the US

Now when I was in Denmark, all the Marxist-Leninists there were all really irreverent and understood satire and tongue-in-cheek humor. Maybe it's not about just leftists needing to chill out, but Americans in general needing to chill... >.>;;

The Ungovernable Farce
19th December 2009, 17:25
SPARTS?! Oh God, and I thought I had it bad... you poor bastard o.o;;
One day it'll turn out that the entire Spartacist League actually have an incredibly dry sense of humour and their whole organisation is/was actually just a fucking epic IRL troll.

Andrei Kuznetsov
19th December 2009, 17:40
One day it'll turn out that the entire Spartacist League actually have an incredibly dry sense of humour and their whole organisation is/was actually just a fucking epic IRL troll.

You know... sometimes I don't wonder...

Angry Young Man
21st December 2009, 17:18
Sparts were like that too... so glad I'm out of there

The Spartacist League? I hear that for one to become initiated, he has to flay a baby and wear its skin for a week, and that they only perambulate by skipping.

Invincible Summer
21st December 2009, 19:13
The Spartacist League? I hear that for one to become initiated, he has to flay a baby and wear its skin for a week, and that they only perambulate by skipping.

Yeah. I was sort of involved w/ their Canadian branch. I never was a "real" member, as I was smart enough to smell their loony shit before I got too deep.

Pavlov's House Party
21st December 2009, 19:18
One day it'll turn out that the entire Spartacist League actually have an incredibly dry sense of humour and their whole organisation is/was actually just a fucking epic IRL troll.

Its probably a sectarian rumour, but some dude at a demonstration told me once that members of the Spart branch in Montreal have to have sex with eachother to like, be better comrades or something:thumbup1:

Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor
21st December 2009, 19:35
I get satire most the time. I do see what you mean. I don't understand the shirts, though. I'm not saying you're misogynist. I just don't get the satire. You're interested in gothic history so you wear the shirts. Alright, it seems a bit excessive to communicate and interest most people won't understand. But you can do what you like. I find serial killers quite interesting, but I wouldn't wear a shirt with one on the front To each their own, I suppose.

The Ungovernable Farce
21st December 2009, 20:12
Its probably a sectarian rumour, but some dude at a demonstration told me once that members of the Spart branch in Montreal have to have sex with eachother to like, be better comrades or something:thumbup1:
I'm pretty sure the Weather Underground actually did that, I'd never heard it about the Sparts before.

Andrei Kuznetsov
22nd December 2009, 19:35
Hey y'all: I'm thinking about turning this into a bigger essay, but I'm wondering: which forum should I put it in? Politics? Theory?

BOZG
22nd December 2009, 23:00
Its probably a sectarian rumour, but some dude at a demonstration told me once that members of the Spart branch in Montreal have to have sex with eachother to like, be better comrades or something:thumbup1:

I'd be surprised if they had a position that having sex with each other makes better comrades but I wouldn't be surprised if they were encouraged to only have relationships within the organisation so as to cut across divided loyalties. I believe the LO in France encouraged the same thing in the past.

KurtFF8
23rd December 2009, 07:39
I love satire, and most of my leftist friends (in the "real world") also love it. Haven't you ever heard of the website http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ ?

BOZG
23rd December 2009, 10:03
I love satire, and most of my leftist friends (in the "real world") also love it. Haven't you ever heard of the website http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ ?


"White people can do powerful things with their eyes: casting judgment, indicating scorn, and obnoxiously rolling them when someone says something they don’t agree with. Yet in spite of these powers, they are not immune to the dangers of the sun. So white people must wear sunglasses. But what may surprise you is that while white people will spend upwards of three months finding a perfect pair of unique prescription glasses, they have no such requirement for sunglasses."

Ravachol
26th December 2009, 16:36
Sparts were like that too... so glad I'm out of there

Dear mother of God do I pity you... The Sparts :crying:


Has anyone noticed that far too many Marxists and Anarchist don't understand satire in the slightest- taking everything at face value or everything in fiction and art absolutely literally?


It all depends though. Most leftist I know actually have a very sarcastic sense of humor. It all depends on the context I guess. I, for one, love 4chanesque humor. But it really depends on the context one makes such a joke in. If you make such a joke in a group where you know everyone is down with it and understands the fact that it's sarcast, it's not much of a problem I guess. Humor is humor after all.

As for the bands, despite the fact that I dislike Laibach, they're not fascist in any sense. I'm into martial Ambient which is a really, really difficult genre when poltics are concerned. Fascist aesthetic isn't much of a problem to me and there are a lot of bands you'd suspect being fascist but which aren't. The problem is with bands who actually espouse fascism through their lyrics and outside of their musical projects.


I think it's just your friends that don't get satire, quite some leftists I know like to sing 'antifa hahaha' and other great songs out loud at parties.

A lot of antifascists I know like to do that, me included. 'Antifa HaHaHa' is a great song to spoof, cover or just sing aloud as an antifascist.
Depends on the context again though, there's a difference between singing the Horst-Wessel song amongst drunken fellow anti-fascists and singing it in a Jewish synagogue (to name two extremes :p)