So whats the deal with the CPUSA

[btpound]

I never really hear people on here talk about them. Are they just crazy or something? I had heard they were a little too moderate. Is that true? I mean, what is there deal? I was thinking of attending one of their meetings, since they have one in my area. What do you think?

[cb9's_unity]

They are a lot too moderate. I've heard some on this site claim there are some legit Marxist-Leninist's in the party, but the leadership to my knowledge is wholly comprised of social democrats in red skin.

Its a withering and politically confused party and only gains occasional notice because of its name. If your a social democrat you may as well admit it and join the Democratic Socialists of America, and if your an M-L you should join the Party for Socialism and Liberation. I'm neither, but out of all the groups I have mentioned the only one I respect is the PSL.

Also this is the wrong place for this thread and its a subject that has been discussed before.

[btpound]

I read their program and it seemed pretty on point. I am probably going to see them soon, so I'll find out soon enough.

[Spawn of Stalin]

They have this obsession with telling people to vote Democrat, the Democratic Party is not a workers party, it's not even a bourgeois workers party, anyone who calls on socialists to vote for a capitalist, imperialist, and frankly racist party, in order to weaken the capitalist, imperialist, racist system, is not worth your time. Check out the Party for Socialism and Liberation, you'll do well with them if you're a Marxist-Leninist, the Communist Party is basically a social democratic party, maybe democratic socialist but that's seriously pushing it, don't waste your time with them.

[cb9's_unity]

I read their program and it seemed pretty on point. I am probably going to see them soon, so I'll find out soon enough.

They absolutely put on their best marxist face on their website/program or whatever. But if you look at the history of the organization and the leadership it becomes apparent that they abandoned marxism and leninism a long time ago.

However there is nothing wrong with at least meeting up with them. I can't say I fully support certain sections of the the SP-USA or all of its national leadership but that didn't stop me from going to a meeting and possibly getting more involved with them.

[Kassad]

They absolutely put on their best marxist face on their website/program or whatever. But if you look at the history of the organization and the leadership it becomes apparent that they abandoned marxism and leninism a long time ago.

Please. Enlighten me.

[cyu]

I read their program and it seemed pretty on point. I am probably going to see them soon, so I'll find out soon enough.

If you have the skills to turn an entire organization around, then go for it. (That's not sarcastic by the way - history is full of famous people that have turned entire groups of people around - they wouldn't be famous if they didn't do that - who's to say you can't be one of them?) However, if you find that there is too much resistance, it's better to get out early than waste years on something useless (or if you don't get out, then look for other ways in which your participation could be useful to external leftists, instead of trying to muck with internal politics).

Anyway, you might find some of this useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influence_People

Don't criticize, condemn or complain
Remember that a man's Name is to him the sweetest and most important sound in any language.
Make the other person feel important and do it sincerely.
Avoid arguments
Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never tell someone they are wrong
Begin in a friendly way
Start with questions the other person will answer yes to
Let the other person feel the idea is his/hers
Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view
Sympathize with the other person
Appeal to noble motives
Begin with praise and honest appreciation
Call attention to other people's mistakes indirectly
Talk about your own mistakes first
Ask questions instead of directly giving orders
Let the other person save face
Praise every improvement
Give them a fine reputation to live up to
Encourage them by making their faults seem easy to correct
Make the other person happy about doing what you suggest

[Drace]

I would join even if they are social democrats.
Make a good speech or two and you might possibly change their stance.

As leftists we should really be looking to educate others. And we have a huge organization here filled with people leaning to the left, possibly the best group of people to educate, and yet we are to discard their existence because their not hardcore enough?

Whats your strategy? Going and teaching nationalist conservatives about communism and imperialism?

[Kassad]

Why waste your time converting social-democratic and non-revolutionary parties when there are much more active and revolutionary parties already in existence?

[cb9's_unity]

Please. Enlighten me.

Enlighten you about what? Do you think that the CPUSA is a genuine marxist or leninist party? The last time I looked at their website they still tried to use some marxist rhetoric. However have you heard sam webb say anything lately? He's calling for the expansion of spending bills instead of proletarian revolution. I think you may be confused about what I was saying.

btw, I totally endorsed the PSL for any M-L without a party. Can I at least get some credit for that?

[Intelligitimate]

There are some comrades on this forum in the CPUSA who make me think it would be worthwhile if everyone in the CPUSA was like that. However, one of them said that Sam Webb was significantly to the Left of the majority of the membership, which does not bode well for the CPUSA...

The people I have met within the YCL seem like mostly social-democrats to me, though they have potential. It's basically almost a separate organization though, and again, I hear they are significantly to the Left of the CPUSA on most issues.

I've read/heard estimates of about 10-15% of the organization being solidly Marxist-Leninist. I personally think the CPUSA will finally successfully liquidate itself within the next few years, and these people will join other Marxist-Leninist organizations. The largest three groups that would fit the bill are WWP, PSL and FRSO (Fight Back!). WWP and PSL trace their origins back to SWP and Trotsky (though they are definitely not Trotskyists in any meaningful sense) while FRSO traces it back to the 1960's SDS anti-revisionists via the Proletarian Unity League, and the Revolutionary Workers Headquarters, which split from the RCP in 1977 (which also came out of SDS).

I've been told by a high-up WWP member that the split was "unprincipled" while PSL people still tell me it was an issue of "democratic centralism." Both groups to this day are very mysterious and non-polemical about the split. The 1999 FRSO split was very, very clearly a split between Marxist-Leninists and Right opportunists who want to pursue "Left Refoundationism."

[Patchd]

With all due respect, this belongs in the politics forum.

Moved to Politics.

[Kassad]

Enlighten you about what? Do you think that the CPUSA is a genuine marxist or leninist party? The last time I looked at their website they still tried to use some marxist rhetoric. However have you heard sam webb say anything lately? He's calling for the expansion of spending bills instead of proletarian revolution. I think you may be confused about what I was saying.

btw, I totally endorsed the PSL for any M-L without a party. Can I at least get some credit for that?

My mistake. I thought you were saying the PSL puts on its best Marxist/communist face for its program and website. Apologies.

[RED DAVE]

Why bother with the CP?

My experience with them, which goes back half a century or so, is that, using terms that people are using here, the CP hasn't been a Leninist organization in any real sense since the 1930s. During the 60s, when I had a lot of contact with CPers and members of their various youth organizations, their line in the mass movements was consistently towards alliances with the liberals, and, while they supported third-party candidates and even ran their own candidates occasionally, their line was and is to support the Democrats.

RED DAVE

[RedSonRising]

Regardless of the situation with the CPUSA, uniting revolutionary organizations and/or creating a feasible political front consisting of members who want the destruction (not the reform of capitalism) will likely steal the thunder from dominant social democrat organizations and lead them to associate and ally with us over other capitalist entities.

Making reformist parties with revolutionary potential see more benefit in taking our revolutionary approach is beneficial, however, and having a dominant revolutionary block for them to find strategically advantageous to latch on to or befriend would make that much easier.

The method in influencing the direction of a party depends on the leadership and membership of the party, and the influence they have determines the worth of such efforts. I'm pretty sure CPUSA is still pretty prominent on the third party scene.

[btpound]

I had no intention of trying to infiltrate the CPUSA. I just said I was going to a meeting. I just wanted to go to them and hear them say, "blah blah blah vote democrat...blah blah blah support china" so I can give an objective view on them.

[RED DAVE]

Famous joke about the CP.

It's 1936 or so, and an unemployed man practically staggers into a grocery store and asks if they have any stale bread or anything they can give him because he has no money, and he's starving. Instead, the two proprietors offer him a job stacking boxes and clerking. The offer him $6/week, which was more-or-less the going wage for that kind of work back then.

When the man finishes his first ten-hour day, he is asked by one of the bosses if he would like to work some extra time cleaning out the basement. He eagerly agrees and works a couple of more hours.

At the end of the week, payday, one of the bosses pays the man: $6.

"Only six bucks," the guy says. "What about all the extra time I worked?'

"We didn't say we'd pay you for that," the boss answers.

"You mean you're not going to pay me for my work? You phony bastard! For two cents I'd join the Communist Party!"

"What did you say?" the boss asked?

"I said for two cents I'd join the Communist Party!"

"Wait right here," the boss says. He goes to the basement entrance and calls downstairs to his partner.

"Hey Max! I think we got a new recruit!"

:D

RED DAVE

[Revy]

They are an insular sect which exaggerates their own importance and membership. Their line is that they support the Democratic Party in popular front style as a way of defeating the ultra-right (a scary term they always use for Republicans). So they will uncritically support the Democratic Party, its candidates and leadership, instead of taking the correct position, that all bourgeois parties must be opposed.

It would be different, and less offensive, if they supported the Green Party, although still reformist and incorrect.

[What Would Durruti Do?]

If you think you can influence them you should give it a try, but otherwise they wouldn't be worth your time.

[Weezer]

They're just Democrats who want to look edgy.

[Musa Abdulrashid]

I never really hear people on here talk about them. Are they just crazy or something? I had heard they were a little too moderate. Is that true? I mean, what is there deal? I was thinking of attending one of their meetings, since they have one in my area. What do you think?
For the past two months I've been going to some of the discussion groups of the Bay Area's branch around the party's theoretical journal (politicalaffairs.net) and read tx.cpusa.org/school/abcs/abcs.htm and I found it more educational than all my previous four years of lurking around marxist and anarchist websites, newspapers and meetings.

My advice is: call or email the branch nearest you (calling is best because you'll have to do it anyway) and tell them you want to join the YCL. Their organization probably isn't used to people wanting to join that often, so you'll have plenty of time to learn more before you become a member, if you decide to. The YCL has organizational independence, which means that everything is basically run by young people. You don't need to have comprehensive understanding of Marxism, or even label yourself a Marxist, and you definitely aren't required to believe everything people claim the CP believes.

[bailey_187]

You may as well go to the meeting, meet people etc, you got nothing to loose by doing it

Raise the issue of the democrats (in an innocent way) and see if people agree with you

[chegitz guevara]

The Communist Party isn't even the left wing of the Democrats. Other socialist groups in the Democratic Party are farther to the left than they are. The CPUSA isn't worthy of its name, and isn't considered seriously by any other socialists. They are nothing more than an obstacle ... and I'm someone who opposes trash talking other parties (except for cults).

[RED DAVE]

Why, in this day and age, after the numerous betrayals of stalinists, in the US and elsewhere, would anyone even want to piss in the john at a CP meeting? What is the attraction for anyone except for political masochists?

This is the kind of political puke that the CP vomits out.


No easy road to future — but we’ll get there


Report to the National Committee
Communist Party USA • Nov 13, 2009

By Sam Webb

Slightly over a year ago, the American people elected a young African American to the presidency and increased the Democratic majority in the Congress. President Obama’s victory represented a repudiation of right-wing ideology, politics and economics and a setback for neoliberalism in both its conservative and liberal skins.

This victory was a long time in coming. When it finally happened it did so not only because of the brilliance of the candidate, but also due to the broad shoulders of a people’s coalition.

The swing in the political pendulum ushered in the possibility of a new era. After 30 years of right-wing dominance, the balance of political power tilted once again in a progressive direction.

Though that tilt wasn’t far enough for a people’s agenda to be easily enacted, political advantage did shift, and that’s no small accomplishment.

Perhaps it is obvious, but if McCain and Palin had been elected, a public option would not be in the center of the conversation — in fact, health care reform wouldn’t even be on the agenda. The Employee Free Choice Act would be off labor’s wish list. The stimulus package would be far smaller and unemployment much higher.

There would not be a Puerto Rican woman on the Supreme Court. Our government would be actively supporting the coup regime in Honduras, and relations with Cuba would be frozen or worse. Legislation extending hate crimes to include anti-gay violence would still be on the ‘to do’ list. And not a word would have been mentioned about the abolition of nuclear weapons.

In short, President Obama’s election has made a difference, and the progressive movement has space to dream again. There are limits and obstacles to be sure, but what should frame our outlook are hope and possibility. The great reformer of the 20th century, Rev. Martin Luther King, taught us this lesson.

The purpose of this discussion paper is to assess where the country and world are a year after the election, refine our strategic and tactical policies, outline some practical actions, and discuss our role in a very complex situation.http://www.cpusa.org/

It would be a useful exercise for a class in marxism to analyze this statement. The full document is 26 pages long! I think I'd rather have my fingernails pulled off than rad it.

RED DAVE

[btpound]

Though I wouldn't go as far as Mr. Webb, but Obama's election is a good thing for the working class. It's better to have a candidate who is at least talking about public health care, than one that calls you a commie for suggesting it. Again, I don't think Obama is a angel from on high, his election was a small step in the right direction. ALso, his popular support base show people in this country DO care about politics.

[the last donut of the night]

Though I wouldn't go as far as Mr. Webb, but Obama's election is a good thing for the working class. It's better to have a candidate who is at least talking about public health care, than one that calls you a commie for suggesting it. Again, I don't think Obama is a angel from on high, his election was a small step in the right direction. ALso, his popular support base show people in this country DO care about politics.

Maybe you haven't been on this planet for the few past weeks.

Obama does not talk about public health care, he talks about some watered down shit-bill. Obama, a couple of days ago, gave a speech when he received his Peace Nobel prize that defended imperialist war. This was the man that did nothing while Israel slaughtered children in Gaza, or when he had the fucking ability to nationalize GM and make it into a more efficient company. This was a man that backed down about gay rights, workers' rights, racism in the hands of a cop, racism in the hand of the right-wing, and racism in all the immigration "debate".

Obama has been a step back for the working class. They believed in him, they voted for him, and now they're either slaving away for meager wages in a non-union slaughterhouse or dying in Iraq or Afghanistan, only to come back to a shitty VA hospital.

And when they finally break down, they are labeled as terrorists by the racist right-wing.

If its one thing Obama can teach us all leftists, it's that we should never trust bourgeois politicians. Fuck their promises, fuck their speeches, and fuck them.

Maybe the left will learn something from this bag of shit.

[Intelligitimate]

Interesting articles on the CPUSA, from the left-wing minority in the party:

Another Dark Day in CPUSA History (http://mltoday.com/en/another-dark-day-in-cpusa-history-739.html)
Heads in the Sand (http://mltoday.com/en/heads-in-the-sand-744.html)

[cyu]

Obama does not talk about public health care, he talks about some watered down shit-bill... If its one thing Obama can teach us all leftists, it's that we should never trust bourgeois politicians.


Democrats on health care:

http://www.thismodernworld.com/arc/2009/TMW2009-08-19colorlowresopy.jpg

[Revy]

^^ It forgot about Democrat Ben Nelson and other Democrats' (including Obama himself) obsession with keeping abortion out of the public option (as if abortion was murder or something...)

I like to call it "the public obfuscation" because the intent was never to provide health care coverage (the same thing happened in the first year of Clinton's presidency and nothing happened) but to make it seem like something of substance was being done.

[Intelligitimate]

Why, in this day and age, after the numerous betrayals of stalinists, in the US and elsewhere, would anyone even want to piss in the john at a CP meeting? What is the attraction for anyone except for political masochists?

RED DAVE

More nonsense use of the word "Stalinist" by Trotskyites. CPUSA hasn't upheld Stalin in over half a century, and would probably agree with most of RED DAVE's stupid shit about the USSR, yet they are meaninglessly called "Stalinists."

[Red Saxon]

My problem with them is that I think they forget that the majority of Democrats are still Capitalists, and yet they're still in support of many Democratic canditates


ALso, his popular support base show people in this country DO care about politics.
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/la4tz8iyykakiudfydbt4g.gif
His support amongst whites declined dramatically, but he still has a fairly large base.

[Conscript]

The CPUSA has abandoned revolutionary politics after the party was assaulted by the US. It made it through many crackdowns and an insane amount of propaganda in the cold war. Though it is despicable, I don't find it surprising that the CPUSA is now siding with the bourgeois 'left' and calling on other revisionists to fight the 'dangerous right-wing', which apparently is the source of the US's problems.

Still, I think US leftist and workers' parties should end the splits and form one party. The already small resources the movement has is split between sectarian and antagonistic parties more concerned that their own version of communism is right.

I think this is the only practical way to turn the CPUSA away from revisionism and on a path to leading a socialist revolution.