Astronomers discover 'Earth-like' planet.

[Dr Mindbender]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20091216/tsc-scientists-discover-earth-like-water-c2ff8aa.html

Astronomers have discovered a new Earth-like planet that is larger than our own and may be more than half covered with water, according to a study published Wednesday in the science journal Nature.

http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/afp/20091216/18/2415467076-scientists-discover-earth-water-rich-planet-study.jpg?x=310&y=231&q=75&wc=417&hc=312&xc=10&yc=1&sig=0GmlyZXp2LZl_CLCBnze9g--#310,231 (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/photos/slideshow/space-photos.html?imageUrl=/afp/20091216/r_p_afp_sc_other/psc-view-of-a-star-cluster-0bde19461132)
View of a star cluster in outer space


The so-called "super Earth" is about 42 light years away in another solar system and has a radius nearly 2.7 times larger than that of our planet, according to the study by the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics.
The discovery of the planet, called GJ 1214b, represents a "major step forward" in the search for worlds similar to the Earth, added the University of California's Geoffrey Marcy in a commentary also in Nature.
The "newfound world" is too hot to sustain life as we know it, said the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre for Astrophysics in a statement.
Its density suggests however it "is composed of about three-fourths water and other ices and one fourth-rock," it said. "There are also tantalising hints that the planet has a gaseous atmosphere."
Its temperature is estimated at between 280 and 120 degrees Celsius (536 and 248 degrees Fahrenheit) with its host star about one-fifth the size of the Sun, according to the scientists.
"Despite its hot temperature, this appears to be a waterworld," says Zachory Berta, a graduate student who first spotted hints of the planet's presence.
"It is much smaller, cooler and more Earthlike than any other known exoplanet," he said in the statement.
An exoplanet is one outside of our solar system.
Berta said some of the water would likely be in crystalline form that exists at pressures greater than 20,000 times Earth's sea-level atmosphere.
Its temperature is much lower than that on the only similar discovery, called CoRoT-7b, which revolves around a star that is much hotter, the scientists say.
The CoRoT-7b has a density close to that of the Earth (5.5 grammes per cubic centimetre) and seems to be rocky, while the new discovery appears to be much less dense (1.9 g/cm3).
"To keep the planet's density that low requires that it contains large amounts of water," said Marcy. "It must contain a huge amount of water, roughly 50 percent by mass."
The "wild card" is the make-up of the gases on the planet, he said.
The planet orbits every 38 hours around a small, faint star that was first spotted by eight ground-based telescopes no larger than those used by amateur astronomers, the Harvard-Smithsonian Centre said.
Its relative closeness makes its possible to study it to determine its atmosphere.
"That will make it the first super Earth with a confirmed atmosphere -- even though that atmosphere probably won't be hospitable to life as we know it," said David Charbonneau who heads the research team.

[New Tet]

I hope they're locating good places for SETI to look for ancient alien transmissions if there be any!

[Dr Mindbender]

I hope they're locating good places for SETI to look for ancient alien transmissions if there be any!

if there is intelligence, they'd better have gills-apparently this place is covered in water.

I hope they dont find jar jar binks ! :scared:

[VientoLibre]

Oh, shit, they found Solaris.

[Luisrah]

Omg no!

Thermophile bacteria have been seen on Earth, able to live in temperatures of 80ºC, but if the minimum of that planet is 120ºC, than there can't be water in liquid form, and makes a tough job for life.

But who knows, life's variety is imense, and there are infinite kinds of bacteria.

Confirmed life on other planets would be a big hit to creaccionism, and a lot of things, especially religion.

[ComradeMan]

Sounds like Star Trek, it's life Jim but not as we know it!

If there is intelligent life there, what political system might they have?

[Muzk]

so thats where we left atlantis

[Luisrah]

Sounds like Star Trek, it's life Jim but not as we know it!

If there is intelligent life there, what political system might they have?

IF there is intelligent life (which is a really REALLY big if), they probably aren't much more advanced than us.

Or else they would have found us too, and sent radio waves. There are some stations that are directed to space to try and detect radio waves, and none has been detected yet.

But what are we talking, most probably there isn't life on that planet.

[VientoLibre]

IF there is intelligent life (which is a really REALLY big if), they probably aren't much more advanced than us.

Or else they would have found us too, and sent radio waves. There are some stations that are directed to space to try and detect radio waves, and none has been detected yet.

But what are we talking, most probably there isn't life on that planet.

Unless they don't use normal radio waves for communication. But yeah--doubt there's intelligent life on that planet. But it does give hope for all of the other systems just in our galaxy.

[Luisrah]

Unless they don't use normal radio waves for communication.

That would probably mean that they aren't much advanced.
Of course their main communication could be something else entirely, but for success in communication, it is necessary to have everything, because you don't know who you're dealing with.

Plus radiowaves are electromagnetic waves, which means they travel at the speed of light, the greatest possible speed.

[Dimentio]

It is very hot and probably not suitable for human life. But it wasn't too far away.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

I am never able to understand Astronomy categorization. Is this a "real" new planet. Like will kids end up learning about it with Saturn? Or is it like Pluto, or is it something else?

[the last donut of the night]

I am never able to understand Astronomy categorization. Is this a "real" new planet. Like will kids end up learning about it with Saturn? Or is it like Pluto, or is it something else?

It's a planet; it's just 'different' from others because it's not in our own solar system. Kids will continue learning about the eight planets.

[Meridian]

I am never able to understand Astronomy categorization. Is this a "real" new planet. Like will kids end up learning about it with Saturn? Or is it like Pluto, or is it something else?
It is a planet that circles around another star (not our Sun). So it is not like Saturn or Pluto, because both of those are in our solar system. The planet in question is much, much farther away.

If we ever find "intelligent" extraterrestrial life, which I doubt, it will most likely not be anything like sapience as we know it. It will probably be organized in a completely different way.

[Die Rote Fahne]

If there are uber advanced societies on other planets, with spaceships that can travel the distance of earth to pluto in the matter of a day...

I would highly suggest we will never know, because they would have laws against getting involved with "under-developed" planets.

This idea I get from the game "Star Ocean: Till the end of Time". But it makes sense.

[Rusty Shackleford]

i was pretty excited when i read that article. at the rate we are discovering planets, i wouldnt be surprised if a planet somewhat similar to ours was found within my lifetime.

as for political systems, i could imagine anything from absolute authoritative and hierarchic societies to autonomist liberal and collective societies even if there were some similarities by definition to our forms of government i would hardly be surprised if they worked out in different ways. we as humans value liberty, justice, and good will. but extraterrestrials may value other things.

[Luís Henrique]

if the minimum of that planet is 120ºC, than there can't be water in liquid form, and makes a tough job for life.

That would depend on the atmosferic pression - water boils at 100ºC at 1000 milibars. The higher the pression, the higher the boiling point.

Luís Henrique

[Luisrah]

That would depend on the atmosferic pression - water boils at 100ºC at 1000 milibars. The higher the pression, the higher the boiling point.

Luís Henrique

The higher the pression, the lower the possibility of there being life.
Plus, even if the pression is higher, the temperature is too, so, it would still be too hot.

Hopefully, life is more adaptable than we think

[Glenn Beck]

Thermophile bacteria have been seen on Earth, able to live in temperatures of 80ºC, but if the minimum of that planet is 120ºC, than there can't be water in liquid form, and makes a tough job for life.

Maybe there might be a highly pressurized atmosphere that allows for liquid water at higher temperatures? I dunno, my science is lacking.

In any case it seems like they've been rapidly refining the techniques they use for finding exoplanets over the last couple of years. I remember being in an astronomy class just maybe 2 years ago when they discovered the first terrestrial planet outside the solar system. Now it seems they find something more and more Earth-like every two months.

[Luisrah]

Maybe there might be a highly pressurized atmosphere that allows for liquid water at higher temperatures? I dunno, my science is lacking.

Maybe. There are a lot of factors involved. If the water is at 120ºC, it can be liquid, but it has to have higher pression.
While it may be liquid, it is still at 120ºC, and the higher pression may make life something impossible.
The pression necessary for water to be liquid at 120ºC (even worse if it's at 280ºC) may make other components necessary to life to be in other forms than the ''normal''.

Who knows. It isn't known if the planet is or not geologically active, how dense is the atmosphere, and how dense is the planet actually.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Maybe we could launch the capitalists there after the Revolution? Gives them still a small chance of survival.

[The Author]

I knew they were going to find an Earth-like planet sooner or later. Out there in the big universe there had to be another world like ours. With all the changes and processes taking place over billions of years, certainly similar conditions were established on other worlds.

The fact that this planet is only 42 light years away surprises the hell out of me. Goes to show how little we really know about space.

[Luisrah]

The fact that this planet is only 42 light years away surprises the hell out of me. Goes to show how little we really know about space.

Yup. Now we just have to consider that our galaxy has something like 200-400 billion stars, which can make a star system, our galaxy isn't the biggest in the Universe (the Andromeda Galaxy may have a trillion stars), and there may be around 125 billion galaxies in the Universe.

With all that, there's no reason no to think that there isn't another planet with the exact same conditions as planet Earth.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Yup. Now we just have to consider that our galaxy has something like 200-400 billion stars, which can make a star system, our galaxy isn't the biggest in the Universe (the Andromeda Galaxy may have a trillion stars), and there may be around 125 billion galaxies in the Universe.

With all that, there's no reason no to think that there isn't another planet with the exact same conditions as planet Earth.


this is a bit off topic but with there being an estimated number of galaxies in the universe does that mean the universe might be finite? i dont imagine some sort of boundary but i guess i could imagine space warping.

[Kwisatz Haderach]

this is a bit off topic but with there being an estimated number of galaxies in the universe does that mean the universe might be finite? i dont imagine some sort of boundary but i guess i could imagine space warping.
The universe is finite. It is also unbounded, in the sense that if you travel long enough (billions of years at light speed, that is) in the same direction, you will eventually get right back where you started. But stars move (and most of them burn out in less time than it will take you to cross the universe), so it's likely that by the time you get back to where you started, it will just be empty space.

By the way, due to relativistic time dilation, it is not entirely ridiculous to talk about you (as in, one human being with a normal human lifespan) actually being able to cross the entire universe. It could be done, if there was some way to accelerate a ship to something like 99.999999...% of the speed of light (and shield it against all collisions with stray hydrogen atoms, not to mention the occasional rock). At that kind of speed, your crossing of the universe may only take a few years from your perspective... though billions of years will have passed for the rest of the universe, so it would effectively be the equivalent of a one-way ticket to the insanely distant future.


I knew they were going to find an Earth-like planet sooner or later. Out there in the big universe there had to be another world like ours. With all the changes and processes taking place over billions of years, certainly similar conditions were established on other worlds.
When you really get down to it, though, this planet is only "Earth-like" in the sense that it's not a gas giant. But you would still die instantly if you tried to step onto its surface unprotected.

[Os Cangaceiros]

IF there is intelligent life (which is a really REALLY big if), they probably aren't much more advanced than us.

Or else they would have found us too, and sent radio waves. There are some stations that are directed to space to try and detect radio waves, and none has been detected yet.

You're assuming that intelligent life wants to interact with or has even the slightest interest in us.

[Luisrah]

You're assuming that intelligent life wants to interact with or has even the slightest interest in us.

Yes, of course. Everything is assumed. We are assuming that there is in fact other galaxies than ours, we are assuming that there are really other planets capable of originating life, we are assuming that life can begin out of nothing, we are assuming that it will become intelligent like us.

The only logical assumption is that another intelligent species will want to have contact with other species, which could be us, even if it is to attack us, to prove that life can exist in other planets, or whatever.
All this if the civilization has reached a technological and scientific standard similar to ours. If it's still in a sort of Medieval status, than they will still think that their planet isn't round.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I know. I'm just saying that it's interesting that people assume that intelligent life in the universe (if it indeed exists) wants to communicate with us. If aforementioned life is intelligent enough, I wouldn't assume that at all.

If you're walking in a forest and come across a ladybug crawling on a leaf, would you try to communicate with it?

[Luisrah]

If you're walking in a forest and come across a ladybug crawling on a leaf, would you try to communicate with it?

No. I know that the ladybug isn't an intelligent lifeform, and that trying to communicate will, with 99.99% certainty, lead to nothing.

We're talking about other intelligent lifeforms, that being intelligent, will most probably be curious (since that is a major factor to being intelligent).
If they still live on their planet only, like we do, it's only logical that they will want to know if life is possible or exists somewhere else.
Until we find something (which I believe we will) we have to base our assumptions in ourselves, since we are the only intelligent lifeform we know.
Though we must of course remember that they may have completely different ways of thinking, even if they don't want to communicate (which I don't think) they may not be the only intelligent lifeforms around.

Assuming that some intelligent lifeforms won't want to communicate is legitimate and probably correct, but assuming that all don't isn't.

[8bit]

If there are uber advanced societies on other planets, with spaceships that can travel the distance of earth to pluto in the matter of a day...

I would highly suggest we will never know, because they would have laws against getting involved with "under-developed" planets.

This idea I get from the game "Star Ocean: Till the end of Time". But it makes sense.

And Star Trek, Doctor Who, etc...

In pretty much every Sci-Fi dealing with a Type 2, 3, or 4 civilization have preservation laws.

Personally, I don't think that's what would occur. I think any Type 3 or 4 civilization will operate fairly similar to the Borg, minus the central controller. As they will have, essentially, control over the make up of any material they come in contact with, they will try to assimilate with everything they come in contact with in order to increase their processing power, physical power, and storage space.


I know. I'm just saying that it's interesting that people assume that intelligent life in the universe (if it indeed exists) wants to communicate with us. If aforementioned life is intelligent enough, I wouldn't assume that at all.

If you're walking in a forest and come across a ladybug crawling on a leaf, would you try to communicate with it?

No, I wouldn't, but do we try to communicate ladybugs collectively as a civilization? Yes, very much so. Communicating with lesser life is part of understanding it.

Of course, we aren't communicating in the same way that we communicate with our peers, but we are still making it 'aware' of us.

That said, this doesn't really matter. If said civilization has reached or passed our level of development, we should be able to pick up their radiowaves from when they did.


The idea that they are hiding from us is a common hypothetical explanation for the Fermi paradox, but the reason wouldn't be because they're apathetic towards us. An intelligent species is never completely apathetic to any new information.

[Luisrah]

The idea that they are hiding from us is a common hypothetical explanation for the Fermi paradox, but the reason wouldn't be because they're apathetic towards us. An intelligent species is never completely apathetic to any new information.

Exactly

If they were, how would they be intelligent in the first place?