The far-right wing conspiracy-theory movement: Destroyer of USA left

[LeninistKing]

Hello folks, i think that one of the major destroyers of the USA left is the white-nationalist, far-right wing, pro-free market movement that arose after Bush did 9-11. I know that neocons did 9-11, but the conspiracy-theory, far-right wing libertarian organizations in America like Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, David Icke and other conspiracy-theory leaders of America, have concentrated much energies in these events as their central argument, instead of concentrating their argument against the capitalist system as the root of all of our problems and 9-11 being just a result, a consequence of the capitalist system.

The good thing about the left is that the left goes to the root of problems (Capitalism) while the far-right wing conspiracy-theory movements and its libertarian parties concentrate on the consequences not the causes. Another problem of the white-nationalism, far-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theory political parties and organizations is that many people in America instead of supporting Socialism Parties, as an option to the quagmire and failure of Democratic Party and Republican Party are instead supporting the far-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theorists and political candidates like Ron Paul and Bob Bar.

So the USA left has to work harder at recruiting confused americans that are right now supporting Ron Paul and conspiracy theory movements

.

[ZeroNowhere]

I know that neocons did 9-11Do you, now?

[Demogorgon]

Hardly anybody takes the conspiracy theorists seriously. What would cause the left harm is to entertain any conspiracies itself (9/11 being an inside job for instance).

[Axle]

I agree that the far right is gaining too much power and influence in America...but its not a winning move to complain about their conspiracy theories when you're taking the "Loose Change" view of 9/11.

[cb9's_unity]

Its amusing how libertarians were the ones behind those conspiracy theory's, yet the liberals got the brunt of the anti-conspiracy theory backlash.

My last post in a different thread actually dealt with the idea that free market libertarians may be stealing support from the left, though for entirely different reasons. The 9/11 inside job bullshit is not only false but ultimately damaging to any movement that is associated with it. Among the ordinary public the conspiracy stuff actually isn't associated with the larger libertarian movement and has nothing to do with its growth.

[LeninistKing]

How dumb and naive you are. How can you believe in what the US government said about 9-11? How can you believe in any thing coming from the mouth of US government? Socialists are supposed to be critical. How can you believe in the 9-11 US government conspiracy lie. I am socialist and i don't believe in the 9-11 US government conspiracy lie that 9-11 was done by Bin Laden from a cave and by 19 poor people with nail scisors and box cutters, i believe 9-11 was an inside-job. The NORAD stand down and negligence to at least shoot down the second, third and fourth airline on that day is a big smoking gun which points to 9-11 being an inside job. Besides there have been found explosives in the 9-11 debri.

i could care less of what other dogmatic leftists believe. I am not enslaved by any communist party, church or cult like Maoist Communist Party of USA of Bob Avakian which is like a dogmatic church.

So my pro-US government friend, what scientific proof you have to back your claim that 9-11 was done by 19 poor muslims with box cutters?

.


What would cause the left harm is to entertain any conspiracies itself (9/11 being an inside job for instance).

[LeninistKing]

At Least 7 of the 9/11 Hijackers are Still Alive

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
Outline of the 9/11 Plot

The muscle hijackers 'picked by bin Ladin':

Satam al Suqami, Wail and Waleed al Shehri (two brothers) --Alive, Abdul Aziz al Omari --Alive, Fayez Banihammad (from the UAE), Ahmed al Ghamdi, Hamza al Ghamdi, Mohand al Shehri Alive, Saeed al Ghamdi --Alive, Ahmad al Haznawi, Ahmed al Nami --Alive, Majed Moqed, and Salem al Hazmi (the brother of Nawaf al Hazmi).

How can the 9/11 Commission be taken seriously when they refer to 9/11 'hijackers' who are still alive?



"Hijack 'suspects' alive and well" -BBC NEWS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/1559151.stm)

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1555000/images/_1559151_pilot300mav.jpg
Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco.


As for the real hijackers, alot of finger are pointing to p-tech

Fully address the role of Ptech, the data-blueprinting company owned by Saudi terrorist Yasin Al Qadi, in any FAA delayed responses. This company had access to the data blueprint of the FAA’s entire computer systems prior to, and on, 9/11. Ptech had offices in the basement of the FAA. This information came from Wall St. Whistleblower Indira Singh, and has been documented extensively in the mainstream press. The 9/11 Commission report blames the FAA for much of the “apparent failures” on 9/11, but never once addresses the very real possibility of cyber-terrorism in the basement of the FAA itself. Indira Singh has publicly called Ptech, “Effectively a corporate Al Qaeda cell.” This must be addressed publicly to ensure national security.

:crying:






I agree that the far right is gaining too much power and influence in America...but its not a winning move to complain about their conspiracy theories when you're taking the "Loose Change" view of 9/11.

[Demogorgon]

Watch out for the black helicopters.

[New Tet]

Hello folks, i think that one of the major destroyers of the USA left is the white-nationalist, far-right wing, pro-free market movement that arose after Bush did 9-11. I know that neocons did 9-11, but the conspiracy-theory, far-right wing libertarian organizations in America like Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, David Icke and other conspiracy-theory leaders of America, have concentrated much energies in these events as their central argument, instead of concentrating their argument against the capitalist system as the root of all of our problems and 9-11 being just a result, a consequence of the capitalist system.

The good thing about the left is that the left goes to the root of problems (Capitalism) while the far-right wing conspiracy-theory movements and its libertarian parties concentrate on the consequences not the causes. Another problem of the white-nationalism, far-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theory political parties and organizations is that many people in America instead of supporting Socialism Parties, as an option to the quagmire and failure of Democratic Party and Republican Party are instead supporting the far-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theorists and political candidates like Ron Paul and Bob Bar.

So the USA left has to work harder at recruiting confused americans that are right now supporting Ron Paul and conspiracy theory movements


"You don't waste bullets on crows, me thinks!"

[Spawn of Stalin]

The thing is a lot of these people aren't confused. They vote for the right-wingers because they are right-wingers, all while screaming "9/11 was an inside job!" to give off the impression that they are somehow oppressed, that FEMA has mass graves already dug for the millions of Americans that they plan on executing, that the wall along the Mexican border is actually meant to keep Americans in rather than keeping Mexicans out, that the world is controlled by some Jewish cult, and that the only way to counter this is by voting for insane Conservatives who in reality do not subscribe to any of these stupid conspiracy theories. Ron Paul is a Congressman, he has consistently voted against abortion rights, animal rights, welfare reform bills, bills which would have greatly aided the arts sector, he even voted against a hate crimes bill this year. So he opposes the PATRIOT Act and the Fed, big deal, he is in bed with the government far more than these "libertarians" are prepared to publicly admit, they know it and they don't care, because they are anything but libertarians, the only liberties these conservative idiots care about are ones relating to guns and private enterprise. Very few of them are potential allies of the left, so fuck 'em.

Oh, and don't buy into their stupid conspiracy theories. One minute you're talking about rocket fuel in the World Trade Centre, the next thing you know you're at a tea party rally holding up a sign with some unoriginal slogan about Obama being a Communist. It's a dangerous game, don't play it.

[RadioRaheem84]

My last post in a different thread actually dealt with the idea that free market libertarians may be stealing support from the left

Making them even crazier supporters of private power.

[RadioRaheem84]

Granted, these conspiracy theories are far fetched, I am sure there is stuff the government doesn't want us to know about 911. Whether that makes them culpable or not, I don't know and think this is a major distraction from the major issue. What we do know is that the US was part of several conspiracies during the Cold War and conducted several 9/11s. Chile being one of them! Where is the rights anger over that?

But Jesse Ventura hosts a pretty idiotic cable show called Conspiracy Theory that relates everything the tin hat loons think. BUT he is going to host a new episode that talks about the Green Bubble; where investment firms are going to blow up another commodities bubble. This is stuff that is real and many economists have touched on like Robert Bell of Brooklyn College. I really don't want it to be associated with strange conspiracy tales.

[Holden Caulfield]

why would the US government do 9/11 themselves exactly?
Its not like they ever needed a good reason for a war at any point in their long history, and it's not like anything would change if we did find out republicans planned it all because everybody would just vote democrat and the system would carry on as normal.

[RadioRaheem84]

why would the US government do 9/11 themselves exactly?
Its not like they ever needed a good reason for a war at any point in their long history, and it's not like anything would change if we did find out republicans planned it all because everybody would just vote democrat and the system would carry on as normal.

I don't know. I meant stuff to cover their ass so they wouldn't look totally incompetent. This talk is spurious though. There was a conspiracy! It was a conspiracy by the Al Qaeda Network to bring down the towers.

There are some physicists like Steven Jones from BYU that contest the official story.


Point is I don't want these conspiracy nuts to start peddling stuff that might be true like the Green Bubble theory because it will marginalized as a conspiracy.

[Cowboy Killer]

I don't think we'll ever know what really happened unless the people involved step forward and tell the truth. I can name so many theories of conspiracy of what happened, theres even a conspiracy theory thats tied to the drug war and the Reagan crew.

[9]

Oh god, not this dumb shit again.

[Cowboy Killer]

As much as I wonder about what really happened all of this talk of conspiracy is pretty pointless and a waste of time on the count of were never going to know what really happened. Im sorry I fed this thread.

[RadioRaheem84]

Why don't these right wingers ever talk about all the stuff the CIA did to third world nations? Or what economic hitmen like John Perkins did to other nations economies. These aren't conspiracy theories and their laced with facts and people who've defected and told the truth. Heck the country admits it. Yet the public doesn't know or believe it happened. Why do they only care about the most outlandish and utterly incomprehensible ones that will never be solved?

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

19 guys in a cave with box cutters? Ignorant much. The US trained Bin Laden and his cohort to the highest degree during the 1980s. They are as knowledgeable about explosives and guerilla warfare as anybody.

Oh and, don't be so condescending as to call all of us 'dogmatic leftists' tied to some 'church'. You should realise that many people on here are extremely wise and learned, far moreso than yourself. I'm not sure that you, with 35 posts on here, and considering the nature of your posts in this thread, should really be calling learned Socialists 'dumb and naive.' That is not intellectual debate, it is the sort of mud slinging that precludes factionalism and splits the left movement more than anything, so please refrain from such abuse in future.

Personally, i'm not a fan of the conspiracy theory surrounding 9/11, much because a lot of coincidences can be explained, and much because it is similar people proposing conspiracy theories regarding a lot of thing, as comrade Motionless alluded to earlier - the Mexico border and so on. All of these myths have been debunked. End of the day, none of us will know exactly what happened on 9/11, but from what we do know, it is safer to assume that it was not some sort of inside job. Unless you want to join the Tea Party movement and start talking about how Jewish-Socialist financiers (whatever that might be, LOL) are ruling the world and taking Americans, Whites and the Church down.:rolleyes:

[Dimentio]

Hardly anybody takes the conspiracy theorists seriously. What would cause the left harm is to entertain any conspiracies itself (9/11 being an inside job for instance).

No one in the establishment.

But about a third of the US population do apparently believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theories.

It seems like conspiracy theories have become a certain way to ascertain problems within the USA which cannot be explained through class terms as the people lack a large left-wing radical movement. Therefore, very weird fringe movements to the right tend to arise.

What these fringe movements have in common - whether they are white supremacist or libertarian - is that they adress the voice of rural and petty town regions which have been hurt economically by the natural evolution of US capitalism (urbanisation, increased influence of major corporations and banks at the expense of small corporations and small communities).

Without understanding the conflict between city and countryside in USA, it is very hard to understand the attraction of American right-wing populism.

[bailey_187]

9-11 was done by Bin Laden from a cave and by 19 poor people with nail scisors and box cutters.

Indeed. What is beleivable is that the government somehow managed to rig up the towers with the massive amount of explosives to bring them down, pretend to high jack a plane, make people on the plane phone relatives to pretend that the plane had been highjacked by those incable "poor arabs" with boxcutters, crash the plane into the tower and then detonate the explosives.
And with no official information on this leaking or a whistleblower.

Thank god we have the Loose Change Nerds and Immortal Technique fans to figure this stuff out for us.

[Ravachol]

Conspiracy theories are a slippery slope towards full-fledged antisemitic far-right populism.

Do not, however, dismiss the possibility of complots. Far more complex complots than those weird 9/11 nonsense have actually existed.
Say, for example, Operation Gladio/CONDOR, The Nijvel gang/CCC/Front de la Jeunesse connection, CEDADE and the Paladin/Skorzeny group, the Iran/Contra affair, 'Le Cercle'. All those groups were real, far-reaching anti-communist complots involving fascist militias, false flag attacks, dirty warfare and more disgusting tricks of the trade.
They're not 'special' in any way though, they're the day-to-day mode of operation for Capitalism as a system.

Personally I believe the authorities knew about 9/11 on forehand and allowed it to happen or, at the very least, profitted from it afterwards. It would be no more than logical for them to have ready-made scenarios for these kind of things with adequate responses that get them the most profit in terms of geopolitical power.

I don't think they did it themselves though, they wouldn't have to. And yes, Bin Laden was trained by the CIA in the '80s but that goes for a lot of digusting reactionary movements (ironically, some libertarian US militias included)

Whether they knew or not is irrelevant. Their reaction and subsequent policy however, is not. That's what deserves criticism, regardless of whether 9/11 was staged or not.

As for libertarians, they're mainly frustrated petit-bourgois confused by an increasingly complex world. The danger lies with a lot of honest, working-class people being attracted to these movements because of the prevalence of non-sensical conspiracy theories (black helicopters, Niburu, Reptillians, FEMA, Codex Alimentarius,etc).

[RadioRaheem84]

Personally I believe the authorities knew about 9/11 on forehand and allowed it to happen or, at the very least, profitted from it afterwards.

That's as far cynical of the government as I am willing to go too and even then I doubt it's veracity. But you're right that there have been 101 different plots within the country and without that have monstrously tried to silence opposition and its all been against left wingers. Yet, to the right wing conspiracy nuts, these plots do not registrar because it goes against the belief that commie plotters are trying to take over the government from within.

The problem with these people is that they don't see the system as inherently flawed, they see it as inherently good and outside forces are trying to bring it down from within.

[The Red Next Door]

It not just right wingers who support these theories, you have left wingers who believe in this shit also.

[RadioRaheem84]

It not just right wingers who support these theories, you have left wingers who believe in this shit also.

Yeah, I think it has to do with reading too much factual stuff on the CIA that it's made them question nearly everything official.

[The Vegan Marxist]

LeninistKing, your 'questions' of 9/11 have been answered. Remember, I use to be part of that movement. I use to be a conspiracy theorist, & one of the main things I remembered was telling people that we were just asking questions & that they didn't have to believe us if they wanted, & if they could prove us wrong, then we'd gladly admit to our mistakes, because this type of lifestyle was stressing enough. Yet, when people proved us wrong, I remember seeing members like you flip out & call them government agents, or say that they watch fox news too much, even if they tell us that they hate fox news. The one-sided views of the conspiracy theorist movement is beyond repair, & the only way I feel is left to help them is to actually get a full critiqued debunking of every belief on the claim of 9/11 being an inside job. These videos helped me, so please don't attack them without watching them all, & don't call me a government agent again, because it's embarrasing in your part & it's apparent that you'd rather choose to attack the videos & myself without looking at them nor debunk the debunkings: http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1671959&postcount=1

[Red Commissar]

The roots of the movement's destruction can be found far back to WWI, with ethnic and nationalist divisions that the government and businesses exploited.

With the Cold War polarizing opinions as well, it made it more difficult for the "left" to operate in the United States, than say in European nations where some concessions had to be made to alleviate the situation there.

By the time the 1980s rolled around and the resurgence of conservative politics took place, the "left" was already in a decline. Many of their supporters had become disillusioned with the way the 70s turned out, as well as the issue of simply not having a realistic example to work off.

There can't be a conspiracy to destroy the "left" because there is no sizable "left" to destroy. There have been a move to the centre by parties considered "left" in their respective nations, but that is more of something arising out of people's disdain for taxation and perceived issues with government corruption and inaction.