Why are US right-wingers so scared?

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't mean particularly all the right wing individuals here, but in general, why is the far right so afraid of imaginary bogymen? I would like to get a right-wingers view of this.

I read comments in the newspaper all the time from right wingers who say that the 32% increase in tuition for UC students is nothing for them to get worked-up over. Yet at the same time they are mobilizing for things that (to put is way too generously) may or may not be true: birthers, deathers, and so on. So an actual increase in fees (colleges) is nothing to worry about but supposed "death panels" are? One is a fact, the other is a myth, but which one does the right think is a legitimate reason to want to change (or even overthrow) the government? Imagine how right-wingers would react if the state raised taxes 32%... they'd be blowing up buildings.

The far right fears black helicopters or conspiracies about census takers and yet says that young males who are black or Latino are lying about police brutality and racial profiling. One has been well documented, the other is a myth.

Why does the far right-wing fear that Mexico and Canada are trying to takeover the US, when the US is the country that more often pushes its policies onto other countries through trade agreements?

For my entire life I've only see the US government (under Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama) make cuts to social services, raise fees for things like education and public transport while cutting services, increase prisons dramatically, increase law enforcement, and so on. How is it that most right-wingers ignore reality while screaming that the exact opposite is happening. Are y'all cynically conscious of this and know that you are rallying people through irrational emotional appeals? What's the story?

[GPDP]

Some of them believe their crap, and some don't.

IMO, there's three kinds of right-wingers: those who spout irrational bullshit to deliberately mislead and manipulate, those who spout irrational bullshit because they really are that paranoid and divorced from reality, and those who buy into the bullshit spewed by both groups and follow it.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Some of them believe their crap, and some don't.

IMO, there's three kinds of right-wingers: those who spout irrational bullshit to deliberately mislead and manipulate, those who spout irrational bullshit because they really are that paranoid and divorced from reality, and those who buy into the bullshit spewed by both groups and follow it.

I couldn't have said it better myself: so I'll say it in a more long-winded way. I think the right-wing of the ruling class knows exactly what it's doing - or at least thinks it does. They're not afraid that Obama is a socialist, they know full-well that he's a team player. I think they are afraid of the high expectations for real change his election may have unleashed among working class people. Immigrants and poor whites, blacks, and asians were literally dancing in the streets in my neighborhood and I think that scares the shit out of the ruling class. So they use "socialism" and "heath-care fear mongering" or "black reparations" to put the population back in its demoralized place where they keep their heads down don't expect anything resembling change or justice.

The ruling class also uses the chaos of daily life for most workers and even most professionals and petty bourgeois to divert social unease to scapegoats: petty criminals, immigrants, and people who do not follow certain sets of values. So while right wingers are suffering from the recession, they are encouraged to blame people who lost their homes or minority groups or "lazy people" or "spoiled students" or "evil conspiracies of the Amero" or whatever else for the anarchy of life in the capitalist system (partucularly during the "busts" and economic crises).

But that's how I see it and here I'm interested in how the right views this kind of fear.






Under the Bush administration, many liberals were also fear-mongering and said that Bush was going to dissolve Congress and the Judicial branch, so this kind of unpolitical, illogical fear mongering is not something that restricts itself to one part of bourgeois ideology. With liberals, the empasis of "evil Bush" was used to kind of whitewash the deeper political agreement that allowed the wars and Patriot Act and Git-mo and torture and privatization and so on to happen.

[Bud Struggle]

I don't mean particularly all the right wing individuals here, but in general, why is the far right so afraid of imaginary bogymen? I would like to get a right-wingers view of this. Well you have to remember that there are nutcases on both sides of the isle--and it's always these guys that get all of the attention. In much the same way Communists aren't presented as rational intelligent people with a valid economic viewpoint but guntoteing ax murders out to take over the world. (I just watched a bit of a movie last night on TV Bulletproof with Gary Busey and they identified the bad guys: "Communists"--portrayed as psychotic and bloodthursty.)


I read comments in the newspaper all the time from right wingers who say that the 32% increase in tuition for UC students is nothing for them to get worked-up over. It all depends there--it's really not much money is you have the money, if you don't it's life and death.


Yet at the same time they are mobilizing for things that (to put is way too generously) may or may not be true: birthers, deathers, and so on. Most right wingers (myself included in this one) really do think that life is important and it shouldn't be destroyed.


So an actual increase in fees (colleges) is nothing to worry about but supposed "death panels" are? One is a fact, the other is a myth, but which one does the right think is a legitimate reason to want to change (or even overthrow) the government? Imagine how right-wingers would react if the state raised taxes 32%... they'd be blowing up buildings. The right really doesn't much like government control over their lives--they ather pay their own way. Lower taxes, higher fees for what they want to spend things on (like college.)


The far right fears black helicopters or conspiracies about census takers and yet says that young males who are black or Latino are lying about police brutality and racial profiling. One has been well documented, the other is a myth. The helicopter believers are nutcases, as far as the racial profiling--I think most people that ren't Black or Latino really just don't care.


Why does the far right-wing fear that Mexico and Canada are trying to takeover the US, when the US is the country that more often pushes its policies onto other countries through trade agreements? Actually the real right wing rather not have those trade agreements either.


For my entire life I've only see the US government (under Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama) make cuts to social services, raise fees for things like education and public transport while cutting services, increase prisons dramatically, increase law enforcement, and so on. I think there's more of a give and take on these things than you give America credit for--but in general the feeling is that you shouldn't have to pay for things you don't use--such as public transportation. "I don't ride the bus, so who should I pay taxes to support the system." Generally that thinking is short sighted, but there are gross abuses of the system also.



How is it that most right-wingers ignore reality while screaming that the exact opposite is happening. Are y'all cynically conscious of this and know that you are rallying people through irrational emotional appeals? What's the story? Everybody seems to have their own "reality" when it comes to politics. Some rightists would think that things like "Class Consciousness" if a left wing fantasy. Who can say what the truth is?

[Edit] FWIW--I'm explaining here--I'm more of a Social Democrat than a Right Winger. :)

[RGacky3]

Well you have to remember that there are nutcases on both sides of the isle--and it's always these guys that get all of the attention. In much the same way Communists aren't presented as rational intelligent people with a valid economic viewpoint but guntoteing ax murders out to take over the world. (I just watched a bit of a movie last night on TV Bulletproof with Gary Busey and they identified the bad guys: "Communists"--portrayed as psychotic and bloodthursty.)

Those movies are straight propeganda, against communists. On the right those are the actual right wing's own shows, on programs, own propeganda FOR themselves. You rarely actually hear actual leftists speaking for themselves in the media, but you do hear many right wing nutjobs.


The right really doesn't much like government control over their lives--they ather pay their own way. Lower taxes, higher fees for what they want to spend things on (like college.)

But many of them have no problem with the government controling other poeple.


I think most people that ren't Black or Latino really just don't care.


Welllllll, not the ones I know (including my father).


Generally that thinking is short sighted, but there are gross abuses of the system also.

Mainly by the Capitalist class.

The fact is the right wing in the media are not afraid, its just straight propeganda, its fear mongering.

[Bud Struggle]

Those movies are straight propeganda, against communists. On the right those are the actual right wing's own shows, on programs, own propeganda FOR themselves. You rarely actually hear actual leftists speaking for themselves in the media, but you do hear many right wing nutjobs.

No question--I'm watching the "hero" bolw all those Commies away and I'm yelling at the TV--"HEY TALK TO THESE GUYS__THEY HAVE SOMETHING INTERESTING TO SAY."

Anyway--welcome to the movies.


But many of them have no problem with the government controling other poeple. Most want everyone to be left alone--but that's a two edged sword. Don't expect to be left alone by the government when it comes to personal freedom and then expect the government to stand for your rights as a Latino. It's complicated.




Welllllll, not the ones I know (including my father). Really, you have to build you own life in this society--you can't give a fuck what anyone thinks about you. My father, too. He did what the MAN said. You have to move beyond that.



The fact is the right wing in the media are not afraid, its just straight propeganda, its fear mongering. So? And if you want your say--TAKE IT.

[RGacky3]

Most want everyone to be left alone--but that's a two edged sword. Don't expect to be left alone by the government when it comes to personal freedom and then expect the government to stand for your rights as a Latino. It's complicated.



I'm talking more along the lines of vice laws and military intervention.


Really, you have to build you own life in this society--you can't give a fuck what anyone thinks about you. My father, too. He did what the MAN said. You have to move beyond that.

Sure, but that does'nt mean that that most minorities don't care about discrimination.


So? And if you want your say--TAKE IT.

I agree, direct action and revolutionary action gets the cake.

[Rosa Provokateur]

Right wing politics is very confrontational and goes off of anger based on fear where-as the Left goes off of anger based on victimization; the Right has to make thing appear worse than they really are so it's followers will feel need to mobilize.

[exist2live]

I couldn't have said it better myself: so I'll say it in a more long-winded way. I think the right-wing of the ruling class knows exactly what it's doing - or at least thinks it does. They're not afraid that Obama is a socialist, they know full-well that he's a team player. I think they are afraid of the high expectations for real change his election may have unleashed among working class people. Immigrants and poor whites, blacks, and asians were literally dancing in the streets in my neighborhood and I think that scares the shit out of the ruling class. So they use "socialism" and "heath-care fear mongering" or "black reparations" to put the population back in its demoralized place where they keep their heads down don't expect anything resembling change or justice.

The ruling class also uses the chaos of daily life for most workers and even most professionals and petty bourgeois to divert social unease to scapegoats: petty criminals, immigrants, and people who do not follow certain sets of values. So while right wingers are suffering from the recession, they are encouraged to blame people who lost their homes or minority groups or "lazy people" or "spoiled students" or "evil conspiracies of the Amero" or whatever else for the anarchy of life in the capitalist system (partucularly during the "busts" and economic crises).

But that's how I see it and here I'm interested in how the right views this kind of fear.






Under the Bush administration, many liberals were also fear-mongering and said that Bush was going to dissolve Congress and the Judicial branch, so this kind of unpolitical, illogical fear mongering is not something that restricts itself to one part of bourgeois ideology. With liberals, the empasis of "evil Bush" was used to kind of whitewash the deeper political agreement that allowed the wars and Patriot Act and Git-mo and torture and privatization and so on to happen.

I don't know any liberals who really thought Bush was evil. Incompetent? Yes? But not evil. I personally don't think he's a bad person, but he was a terrible president.

[Comrade Anarchist]

all right wingers making over $75,000 are afraid of losing money from the center right president and his barely progressive tax code. If they make below that then they are afraid of blacks, gays, jews, immigrants, socialism, anarchism, communism, everything not about jebus and glen beck. Another thing if they make below they are having their strings pulled like puppets with big mouths and closed minds.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I don't know any liberals who really thought Bush was evil. Incompetent? Yes? But not evil. I personally don't think he's a bad person, but he was a terrible president.

Dislike of Geroge Bush is totally understandable and justifiable in my book, but the establishment liberals tended to push the idea that all the problems of the Bush administration were because of personal failings of Geroge Bush. Often you heard people say that the Iraq war was some kind of vendetta Bush had against Saddam or whatnot... this kind of fear-mongering by establishment liberals (politicians and people in the media and think-tanks) completely white-washes the role of liberal politicians and the Democratic party in supporting the war. Calling Bush a fascist was just emotional fear-mongering and does a disservice to actually trying to mobilize a coherent and principled opposition. The proof of the failure of this kind of "political" thinking is the fact that now in power, the liberals are following the same policies as George W. Bush. If anything was to be called fascist, it would have been better if people called the patriot act, git-mo detentions, and the wars fascistic because then the next guy couldn't come along and continue these policies and claim that he represents change.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Most right wingers (myself included in this one) really do think that life is important and it shouldn't be destroyed.Well this is the sort of thing that confuses me. The "death panel" is a perceived example of something the government might do even though it really has been shown to be a lot of nothing. Meanwhile, while right-wingers were imagining what the government might possibly do even though it is based on spurious evidence, how many people were killed in death rows across the state? How many people were killed by drone planes? How many people died because they were homeless or lacked proper medical attention?

So it seems like the right-wing is afraid of fire-breathing dragons while totally unconcerned about a blazing grease-fire in the kitchen.

[Bud Struggle]

Well this is the sort of thing that confuses me. The "death panel" is a perceived example of something the government might do even though it really has been shown to be a lot of nothing. Meanwhile, while right-wingers were imagining what the government might possibly do even though it is based on spurious evidence, how many people were killed in death rows across the state? How many people were killed by drone planes? How many people died because they were homeless or lacked proper medical attention?

So it seems like the right-wing is afraid of fire-breathing dragons while totally unconcerned about a blazing grease-fire in the kitchen.

Well since 1970 there have been roughly on average one million abortion done in the US every year. Though in the last 10 years or so the number has gone down into the 800,000s.

So in death row--maybe a couple, and I'm against the death penalty.. Drone planes, a couple of hundred, but I agee--there shouldn't be any. Homeless and from a lack of medical attention--some, and I agree whatever the number, it's too many.

But none of this in the million range.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Well since 1970 there have been roughly on average one million abortion done in the US every year. Though in the last 10 years or so the number has gone down into the 800,000s.

So in death row--maybe a couple, and I'm against the death penalty.. Drone planes, a couple of hundred, but I agee--there shouldn't be any. Homeless and from a lack of medical attention--some, and I agree whatever the number, it's too many.

But none of this in the million range.

While I disagree in the comparison between an army dropping bombs on people for the purpose of Empire, and women being able to determine when and if they have or not have children, I consider this to be a somewhat reasonable and understandable ideological difference between the left and the right. But I was not talking about abortion, I was talking about the perception of and hysteria regarding phantom "death panels" or phantom "socialism" at a time when the governmnet is actually actively killing people through war and so on, and actually giving billions to the rich on the backs of workers respectively.

It's the same with the tax issue... the right talks about "high taxes" while corporations are paying less and less taxes but regressivley, workers have to pay more in bridge tolls, health costs, tuition fees and so on. I would love if the taxes on workers were reduced and taxes raised on business so that commuters didn't have to pay to get to work, pay high tuition to get hired and so on.

It's just the dissonance between what's actually happening empirically and what the right-wing perceives that confuses me.

[RGacky3]

While I disagree in the comparison between an army dropping bombs on people for the purpose of Empire, and women being able to determine when and if they have or not have children

As far as pro-lifers are concerned I think most of them consider that there IS a child in pregnancy, in other words teh woman already has a child when she's pregnant. That choice must be made before hand.

ALthough I do aree with you, there is a huge difference between bombings and abortion, the child is a human yes, however someone being killed in a bombing effects a lot more people and circumstances than an unborn child.

[Jimmie Higgins]

As far as pro-lifers are concerned I think most of them consider that there IS a child in pregnancy, in other words teh woman already has a child when she's pregnant. That choice must be made before hand.

ALthough I do aree with you, there is a huge difference between bombings and abortion, the child is a human yes, however someone being killed in a bombing effects a lot more people and circumstances than an unborn child.

Sure - there is more to say, but I'm not really interested in debating abortion in this thread because it would quickly derail it. To other people who may be against abortion, for this thread, I will just say we'll have to agree to disagree. Feel free to start another tread on this issue if you want.

[reltih floda]

I hate to break it to you, but "fascists" are not allowed on this forum. You're not going to get the right-wing opinion you crave by posting here.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I just watched a bit of a movie last night on TV Bulletproof with Gary Busey

9T2S8GHzxqc

[The Red Next Door]

Underneath that redneck muchoness are big fat stupid cowards who have nothing better to do but hate hate hate all of the people who so calledly make their lives a living hell. There are people on the left to who believe in all that conspiracy and black chopper stuff too, like they feel like that all the things that we on the left fight for. Is only for minorities when it for everyone, most these people who be *****ing about the government taxing them and stuff are poor themselves and it just make me laugh a little that people are defending those who look down on them and call them white trash and assauem for being poor. But not in there face of course because they need the votes. :D

[Bud Struggle]

Underneath that redneck muchoness

Muchoness? :confused:

:D

[Jimmie Higgins]

[/B]

Muchoness? :confused:

:D

Someone who is "Too much":laugh:

[swirling_vortex]

I never understood it either. I've noticed a lot of the teabaggers are older folk, so it could also be related to the Cold War propaganda. My conservative father thinks the same way. He believes Obama is going to implement "socialism" and ruin capitalism, but at the same time he wonders why he's getting laid off while the President of the company gets a nice golden parachute. So I guess it depends on how closely one studies public policy.