In relation to the finale of Season 4 of Dexter

[Uncle Hank]

John Lithgow (The Trinity Killer) at Comic-Con said if he wanted to, he could speak two words that would make the room explode... I thought to myself (major spoilers inside the spoilers... shocking, I know):
Rita dies
But I never took myself seriously. Final scene was the biggest wtf moment I've experienced in a loooong while. :ohmy:

So what did my comrades think? :confused:

[bcbm]

as soon as her phone rang in the house you could tell it was coming. still was definitely a wtf moment though; this season was really good. i'm interested to see where they'll take it from here.

[Uncle Hank]

Yeah, I'd guess most knew when the phone rang. But I was just in that denial mode, y'know?

On another note, which has been bugging me and I need feedback, did you like Season 2? I can't place it fully but there's something that did irk and still irks me about the whole season. Maybe it was Lila, but I'm not 100% on it.

[RedAnarchist]

I've seen a couple of episodes of Dexter, but never really got into it. Might watch some episodes online sometime.

[hugsandmarxism]

Yeah, I'd guess most knew when the phone rang. But I was just in that denial mode, y'know?

I'm a big Dexter fan myself, and pride myself on being able to sniff out a plot twist, but I didn't see that coming, though really I think I should have (gotta love the writing in that show, huh?).


On another note, which has been bugging me and I need feedback, did you like Season 2? I can't place it fully but there's something that did irked and still irks me about the whole season. Maybe it was Lila, but I'm not 100% on it.

I thought she was an interesting character (though not as interesting as the primary antagonist in season 3) but yeah, there was something off in that season. Season 1 and 4 present Dexter with another serial killer he has to contend with, and the cat and mouse games present us with an interesting conflict, but 3 was able to replace that with Dexter's relationship with Miguel Prado. Two gave us the drama of Dexter's many murders catching up to him, but didn't give us an interesting antagonist like the other seasons have... we just got Lila and Doakes. Luckily, they went back to the protagonist/antagonist model that worked so well last season, but I have no idea how they plan to move beyond that mold. Unless, of course (like dear old dad) Dexter's "dark passenger" becomes personified, and becomes the antagonist (which would make for an epic series ender).

[bcbm]

Yeah, I'd guess most knew when the phone rang. But I was just in that denial mode, y'know?

oh yeah. it was definitely a "oh shit, no, no... they wouldn't do that" kind of moment. i'm wondering if they're going to try and attach the story of the show back to the books more, as dexter trains rita's kids to be serial killers in the novels. seems like having harrison go through this might be a similar start? though he's a bit too young.
On another note, which has been bugging me and I need feedback, did you like Season 2? I can't place it fully but there's something that did irked and still irks me about the whole season. Maybe it was Lila, but I'm not 100% on it. i recall enjoying it when i watched it, but looking back after seeing the last two seasons, yeah i don't think it was as good. i don't think it was anything specific to the story or characters introduced, but maybe just that the writers were still trying to find their stride or whatever.

[Uncle Hank]

I've seen a couple of episodes of Dexter, but never really got into it. Might watch some episodes online sometime.
It's highly recommended. Perhaps not as good as HBO's best (The Wire, The Sopranos), but at least to me there's something irresistible about Dexter. I can't help but want the best for him. :lol:


I'm a big Dexter fan myself, and pride myself on being able to sniff out a plot twist, but I didn't see that coming, though really I think I should have (gotta love the writing in that show, huh?).
Don't we all. :laugh: In lieu of the first three seasons (the antagonist dying and everything wrapping up pretty nicely) I was completely in denial until I was on the IMDb board for it and saw so many threads with others shocked and uncomfortable.


I thought she was an interesting character (though not as interesting as the primary antagonist in season 3) but yeah, there was something off in that season. Season 1 and 4 present Dexter with another serial killer he has to contend with, and the cat and mouse games present us with an interesting conflict, but 3 was able to replace that with Dexter's relationship with Miguel Prado. Two gave us the drama of Dexter's many murders catching up to him, but didn't give us an interesting antagonist like the other seasons have... we just got Lila and Doakes. Luckily, they went back to the protagonist/antagonist model that worked so well last season, but I have no idea how they plan to move beyond that mold. Unless, of course (like dear old dad) Dexter's "dark passenger" becomes personified, and becomes the antagonist (which would make for an epic series ender).
I'm just praying for a fever pitch (or as you said it, epic) thrill ride at series' end. Anything along those lines will be enough for me.


oh yeah. it was definitely a "oh shit, no, no... they wouldn't do that" kind of moment. i'm wondering if they're going to try and attach the story of the show back to the books more, as dexter trains rita's kids to be serial killers in the novels. seems like having harrison go through this might be a similar start? though he's a bit too young.
I can't see that happening, maybe because I feel it'd be so distasteful to me and predictable (predictable as in I never looked into the books until before season 3 so season 1 wasn't predictable or any other seasons based off of the books' storyline).

i recall enjoying it when i watched it, but looking back after seeing the last two seasons, yeah i don't think it was as good. i don't think it was anything specific to the story or characters introduced, but maybe just that the writers were still trying to find their stride or whatever.
Yeah, for me I was so excited to have found season 2 on iTunes after frantically searching everywhere for it considering how much I'd enjoyed season 1, there was no way I wouldn't enjoy it. Your above quote pretty much sums up what I could say about season 2. :)

[bcbm]

do you watch any other showtime shows? i've been watching californication.

[which doctor]

Actually, the first episode of Dexter I ever watched was this one, the season finale. Not a bad show and I might consider starting from the beginning.


do you watch any other showtime shows? i've been watching californication.
I've been watching californication too, funny stuff. The premium cable channels are the only ones putting out any half-decent TV shows nowadays, but thanks to the internet we all can watch them for free.

[Uncle Hank]

do you watch any other showtime shows? i've been watching californication.
I watched the first two seasons, might have even watched the first few episodes of season three but I ended up just not caring about the content because there wasn't really any spark anymore that I could find. Plus I can't really bring myself to give a damn about predicaments Hank gets himself into when a lot of them seem perfectly avoidable. This is all speaking from past experience and given my detachment from the show I can't really come up with any examples off of the top of my head of these predicaments... but I hope you'll get what I mean. The writing is witty but it's not enough to make me watch anymore. The conflicts in season 1 were pretty great but it was downhill from there.

[bcbm]

season 2 was okay. i like season 3 a lot better, just cuz it gets so fubar

[Uncle Hank]

season 2 was okay. i like season 3 a lot better, just cuz it gets so fubar
Great, now I have to watch it. :lol:

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

I've seen a couple of episodes of Dexter, but never really got into it. Might watch some episodes online sometime.

Then this thread kind of ruins it for you :/

Apparently there was a bit of ambiguity around whether or not it was actually Trinity who killed Rita, but one of the producers said in an interview following the finale that it was... Seems like a bit of a tight timeframe he did it in, but hey.

Interesting to see where they go with the show from here. I know they've completely deviated from the books now, but one of the characters who sounds kinda compelling for a future antagonist is 'Dr Danko' who actually kidnaps Dexter and leaves Doakes sans limbs... But given what's happened to Doakes I'm not sure how they'd work around that storyline. Also, given how brutal it's supposed to be it might not work for television.

John Lithgow performed some of the best acting I've seen on the show, which really kind of made this series for me. I thought the skinner storyline last series was a bit mehhh. Still, I think the Brian Moser storyline is probably the best written. I didn't think the actual kill at the end of this series did justice to what had been building up...

[bcbm]

Interesting to see where they go with the show from here.

i'm guessing the fifth season is going to be the last one, and shit's gonna get crazy. dexter's already been getting a bit more reckless this season so i think with rita being killed he might keep losing his cool and start making more major mistakes. with deb knowing his past now, she'll probably start catching on to his activities one way or another which will probably turn into the major plotline leading to some dramatic conclusion. not sure what they'll do with the kids...

[Sugar Hill Kevis]

In the books Dexter notices the same sociopathic tendencies in the kids that he had as a child and by the third, he's training them in the same way Harry trained him. I really hope they don't go with that angle.

But yeah; Deb finding out about Laura Moser/Brian/Dexter seems a bit of a prelude for that all blowing up...

[bcbm]

i don't think they'll make the kids into killers. wouldn't really make sense at this point.

[Uncle Hank]

Been watching some Californication season 3. Hank puzzles me. Maybe that's why I stopped watching it. I just don't get how he could keep on delving into that gigantic mountain of shit that always gets him into huge trouble with those he loves as well as many others. Like he doesn't even wince. I guess when you see trouble coming from a mile away though there's no need to wince. In some obscure, weird, really shitty shitty fucked-up way I can relate though. :lol: [/rant] Anyone else get the feeling that Tom Kapinos lives vicariously through David Duchovny?

[bcbm]

I just don't get how he could keep on delving into that gigantic mountain of shit that always gets him into huge trouble with those he loves as well as many others.

it's far easier than you might expect...

[which doctor]

I just watched the latest season finale of Californication. Dramatic as hell, but well done though. At least it was more realistic than the most recent season finale of weeds where Shane shoots that woman; I think I'm done with that show. I don't know if I'd even want to watch another season of californication just because I have trouble seeing where things are going to go after the finale. I almost wish they'd just stop it here before they go ahead and ruin it with couple more seasons.

[bcbm]

shane didn't shoot her, he whacked her in the head with a croquet mallet. in the context of the show it didn't strike me as completely unrealistic. he is a drug dealer and has used violence in the past.

i think the next season of californication will be good. i'm also not sure where they're going to take it, but i can't imagine they'd get hank taken to jail, etc without some sort of plan.

[Dimentio]

Serial killers are so overestimated. I find it disgusting that society is glorifying a concept which is the epithome of egotism and self-gratification, to kill other human beings for "the sport". Hannibal Lecter, Dexter and other celebrity serial killer characters are just making it "cool" to be a misanthropic imbecile self-proclaimed superhuman "standing above" morality.

They are about as overexploited as vampires.

[bcbm]

sure. that doesn't mean it isn't good tv.

[Uncle Hank]

Serial killers are so overestimated. I find it disgusting that society is glorifying a concept which is the epithome of egotism and self-gratification, to kill other human beings for "the sport". Hannibal Lecter, Dexter and other celebrity serial killer characters are just making it "cool" to be a misanthropic imbecile self-proclaimed superhuman "standing above" morality.

They are about as overexploited as vampires.
Maybe it's just me but I don't see Dexter as trying to make it cool to be a serial killer/misanthrope/imbecile/what-have-you. I see the character of Dexter as struggling against and trying to control a part of himself that he didn't chose to have, and putting to work the energy from that part of himself into a morbid yet possibly the most constructive way possible. He doesn't do it for "the sport" as far as I can tell, but to satiate his 'dark passenger'; if we may separate the two actions. What other choice does he have? Let himself be consumed by the urges or turn himself in? Those are hardly choices at all, 'far as I can tell.

Dexter and Hannibal Lecter are about as far apart on the serial killer 'spectrum' (:lol:) as you can get. Dexter trying to evolve and free himself from his relative chains that keep him bound to his dark passenger, Lecter letting himself be consumed by his appetite for destruction, and, well... other things. I just don't see the correlation between the two. Except for the whole serial killer thing... :)

That being said and not to be a cock, but, have you even watched the show?

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on 'Criminal Minds' if you have happened to stumble across it.

[bcbm]

dexter is complex but i think it is ultimately glorifying the serial killer, or at least the vigilante justice aspect of dexter's killing. certainly in every episode the audience is rooting for dexter to win, that is, to catch his target, execute them and get away with it. this often is in purely vigilante style, where he goes after criminals who "beat the system," but more troubling are the instances where he actively thwarts the efforts of law enforcement so that he can enact his version of "justice." if we can look at the justice system, however flawed, as a way of giving public closure to those close to the victims, then dexter's actions deprive them of any such closure because officially his victims are still out there. and, as much as i dislike the police and fbi, by leaving an "open end" to something as major as the trinity case, he is effectively diverting a lot of resources away from tracking active killers towards one who is already dead.

[Uncle Hank]

dexter is complex but i think it is ultimately glorifying the serial killer, or at least the vigilante justice aspect of dexter's killing. certainly in every episode the audience is rooting for dexter to win, that is, to catch his target, execute them and get away with it. this often is in purely vigilante style, where he goes after criminals who "beat the system," but more troubling are the instances where he actively thwarts the efforts of law enforcement so that he can enact his version of "justice." if we can look at the justice system, however flawed, as a way of giving public closure to those close to the victims, then dexter's actions deprive them of any such closure because officially his victims are still out there. and, as much as i dislike the police and fbi, by leaving an "open end" to something as major as the trinity case, he is effectively diverting a lot of resources away from tracking active killers towards one who is already dead.
Well, yeah, there is that part of him, that serial killer shit, you know, but I guess the killer is the only part of him he's ever known so he's gonna revert to that when he is in uncomfortable and unfamiliar situations. And he's gonna do shitty things too. But ultimately what I see Dexter as being about is Dexter trying to find if there's something beyond that ruined soul of a deranged sociopath. The glorification of serial killers and vigilantism is just a sideshow to me, albeit as you pointed out, it can seem pretty shitty. The bit that distinguishes Dexter for me is it seems the rest of the glorification can be the central theme in the characters of other popular serial killers.

[bcbm]

i think he believes himself to be struggling to find something more human in himself, but from the outside its clear its all just self-serving. he appears to not be a complete monster in that he wants to have a family, be a good father and husband, be a good brother, etc but he wants to have it both ways and continue to kill and in doing so jeopardizes everyone he loves, as he realizes at the end of the last season. in some ways i think this makes him even more of a sociopath, because he continues to pursue these things despite it being made clear repeatedly that he ruins everything he touches in this way. in his quest to satisfy his urges while leading a "normal" life he's gotten doakes murdered and framed for his actions, destroyed the prado family, gotten rita's children's father murdered, gotten deb injured and her lover killed and ultimately got rita killed. not to mention the innocents he has killed and pretty much just shrugged it off. i think season five is going to start exploring this more directly and i'm interested to see where it goes.

[Uncle Hank]

i think he believes himself to be struggling to find something more human in himself, but from the outside its clear its all just self-serving. he appears to not be a complete monster in that he wants to have a family, be a good father and husband, be a good brother, etc but he wants to have it both ways and continue to kill and in doing so jeopardizes everyone he loves, as he realizes at the end of the last season. in some ways i think this makes him even more of a sociopath, because he continues to pursue these things despite it being made clear repeatedly that he ruins everything he touches in this way. in his quest to satisfy his urges while leading a "normal" life he's gotten doakes murdered and framed for his actions, destroyed the prado family, gotten rita's children's father murdered, gotten deb injured and her lover killed and ultimately got rita killed. not to mention the innocents he has killed and pretty much just shrugged it off. i think season five is going to start exploring this more directly and i'm interested to see where it goes.
Whether you think he's fallen victim to the curse of tragic self-delusion or think he genuinely is trying to change Dexter isn't a straight up serial killer, is what I'm trying to say. Personally. I think overwhelmingly Dexter is his dark passenger, but there's still those shreds of what his humanity was going to be before his world was chainsawed apart; he pines to be normal, but gosh darnit all if he just can't. Like his monologue at the end of season 4 (coincidentally nearly the same monologue as Deb rattled off in the parking lot scene after Lundy was shot if I recall correctly) he's what's wrong. It's fate if you believe in it (I doubt that you do, nihilist communist that you are :p) and I'm anxious as fuck to see how it plays out. I'm sure we all are though.

[Chimurenga.]

I just hope the writers don't fuck up the next season. I doubt they will but last season is going to be hard to top, in my eyes. Also, last season is the best season of Dexter yet.

Weeds is also a great show.