Utopian Pipe Dreams

[Jimmie Higgins]

What's your favorite utopian pipe dream for life with worker's power and without capitalism?

Of course it's ultimately unscientific and undemocratic to try and plan out specific features of what things might be like after a revolution, but I would like to hear what people's favorite pet utopain pipe-dreams are.

In contemporary society, utopianism is rare compared to other times in capitalism (like the Victorian age when people saw massive changes in society and incredible leaps in technology and industry). Probably the last wave of utopianism in the US (other than maybe high hopes for Obama) was the end of the cold war/begining of the internet. The end of the threat of nuclear war beteen the USSR and the US, made American and European liberals optomistic about the future while other people saw the internet and new digital technology as a way to build an alternative to the system. These turned out to be predicatably shallow and short-sighted, and so people went back the other way towards distopias and cynacism.

I think in some ways that cynical attitude makes out job harder, I think a little utopian imagination in society is necissary for people to beging thinking about what is it about society that they wish were different and this leads to thinking about how we can change it. The author of "Looking Backwards" wrote that hugely popular (at the time) utopian novel during the first American "great depression" in the late 1800s when there were major battles between labor and capital. He tried to imagine a future without the class conflict that was an unavoidable reality of that time and a society based on reason rather than victorian capitalist chaos. His book was hugely popular in the US and the right-wing dennouced him as a socialist. He wasn't but writing that book and speaking about "a better future society" with radicals eventually led him to become a socialist.

Anyway, here are a couple off the top of my head:

1. Campus-like living where induvidual housing surrouns a central common area whith the communal dining areas, a communal movie theater where induviduals or groups can reserve time to see any film, show, event, or sports game on a big screen.

2. Industrial scale urban farming. One of my favorite things that's possible now but impracticle for profit-making (while still practical for production) is large farms within scyscrapers in urban areas. I've read about this in popular science magazines and in theory these buildings could purify urban water supplies, produce oxygen, save farmland, decrease the ammount of shipping necissary for food production, and provide a safe and easy work environment for agricultrual workers.

[the last donut of the night]

people just smoking weed whenever they please

[Vanguard1917]

HUMMERS FOR ALL!

http://www.hummerguy.net/wp-content/2008CustomHummerH2SUTWhiteMonotone.jpg

(I'm just kidding -- there's nothing utopian about that.)

[NecroCommie]

All the people realizing how useless appearances are, and everyone resorting to bohemian lifestyle without any worries.:thumbup1:

[Il Medico]

The sinking of Florida.

[Jimmie Higgins]

The sinking of Florida.How is that utopian... it's been happening. I think what you mean is the sudden sinking of Florida while Jeb Bush's yacht is in the shop for repairs.

[Il Medico]

How is that utopian... it's been happening. I think what you mean is the sudden sinking of Florida while Jeb Bush's yacht is in the shop for repairs.
No I mean the entire place going out like Atlantis, with few (Including myself and my family and friends) survivors. Florida is god awful, probably the single biggest reason for myths of a "hell", it sinking alone would make the world a utopia.

[BobKKKindle$]

Great thread. I agree that being a socialist involves being able to dream.

I remember when I was listening to a recording of a Marxism meeting from the 1980s, about alienation, the speaker suggested that under socialism one of the ways we would be able to exert greater control over our lives and the environment is by moving depending on the seasons, in much the same way as animals, so that, during the winter, people (i.e. a very large segment of the population - not just a rich minority) in countries like the UK (or rather, what is currently the UK - presumably there would be no such thing as the UK or any other country under socialism) would move to warmer regions, like Africa and the Middle East, and then move back to milder regions once those places became too hot. As someone who hates the cold, and who wishes they could travel more, that appealed to me a lot...although I'm not sure it would work in reality :lol:

There are a couple of specific things (in addition to general things like no poverty etc.) that I would love to see under socialism but which aren't utopian at all, and which I would actually expect to be implemented within a few months (if not weeks) after the abolition of capitalism - like free public transport, and the free distribution of books.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Free public transport and free Kindles for everyone... kindles that also play MP3s, surf the web (so you can look up words and references as you read) and allow you to make and record notes on the text.

Actually things like not being able to transfer an mp3 from one system to another or competing video systems artificially preventing cross-platform playing are proof enough of the illogical nature of the profit system.

[the last donut of the night]

marxists.org being printed out on a huge-ass book

[RHIZOMES]

people just smoking weed whenever they please

^This

[Jimmie Higgins]

people just smoking weed whenever they pleaseThat's not utopia, that's just California.

[the last donut of the night]

That's not utopia, that's just California.

explain

[Il Medico]

explain
They smoke a lot of weed in California.

[Schrödinger's Cat]

Teleportation. Or a device that conveniently shrinks the United States when trying to go from point A to point B. Whichever is better for the environment.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Lots of drugs and degenerate sex with the downfall of bourgeois morality.

[mykittyhasaboner]

people just smoking weed whenever they please
This.


The sinking of Florida.

..and this too.

[Dr Mindbender]

Jobs for all that dont suck and the humbling of those that currently get a fortune for doing fuck all.

[Raúl Duke]

No I mean the entire place going out like Atlantis, with few (Including myself and my family and friends) survivors. Florida is god awful, probably the single biggest reason for myths of a "hell", it sinking alone would make the world a utopia.

Agreed, that might be nice (although not my priority in terms of utopias)

Before it sinks we'll put all the major class enemies there so they can sink with hell too...

Coincidentally, the OIer Bud Struggle will also go down with Florida since he lives there already.

[Il Medico]

Yeah, Florida going out is probably my second priory in terms of our coming commie utopia. The weather has sucked lately and I have been particularly annoyed at Florida as of recent. But on normal occasions, I would agree with Explosive Situation and Red Manatee. Also think utopia should have at least 2 coffee shops and 1 bookstore in every town.

[bcbm]

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/e/eppersonm/phil100/graphics_syl/carnival_and_lent.jpg

[Vendetta]

Weed and anti-gravity. ;)

[Random Precision]

No alienation in your personal relationships. Those lucky fuckers won't have to deal with that.

[bcbm]

Anarchism

you're such an awful bore, poor dear:(

[Jazzratt]

Anarchism

HURR HURR HURR :drool::drool::drool:

You're a wit-vacuum.

[Sov]

They smoke a lot of weed in California.And do an awful lot of time for it.

California Reports Record Percentage of Drug Prisoners: One in Eight Imprisoned for Simple Possession of Drugs 10/22/99

SACRAMENTO: The number of drug prisoners has mounted to new all-time highs in California, according to the latest statistics from the Department of Corrections. As of June 1999, the state prison system held 45,874 drug offenders, a record 28.3% of the prison population. At the same time, a record 12.2% of prisoners -- 19,743 in all -- were being held for simple possession (not sales) of illegal drugs.

Included are 1,903 marijuana prisoners (principally for sales and cultivation, since possession is a misdemeanor) -- up 12% since the passage of California's medical marijuana initiative, Prop. 215, and nearly twenty times the level of twenty years ago.

Not included in these figures are drug prisoners held in county jails and federal prisons.

Altogether, the number of drug prisoners in California has exploded over fivefold since 1986 while their proportion in the prison population has doubled; yet illegal drug usage has remained more or less constant over the same period.

Data for DPFCA's analysis comes from the California Department of Corrections annual publication, "Characteristics of Population in California State Prisons by Institution."

hxxp://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/113/drugprisoners.shtml

California is the land of Berkeley, but it's also the land of a massive prison-industrial complex. And "Free Republic." :cursing:

Edit: Ouch, I posted the wrong article; I'd meant to post an article I'd seen from '09, not '99! Still, the War on Drugs continues in CA. It's good that at least mere possession of non-prescription pot is just a misdemeanor when it could be a felony. But it shouldn't be illegal at all, from any angle, period. It's a joke that this is even considered a controversial position in much of society.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Welcome Sov, good point. I agree with you, the war on drugs needs to end along with the rest of the justifications for prison system particularly in the US, particularly in California.

But I was merely being flippant in my response to "smoking pot whenever you'd like".

Also as a Oakland resident, I have to add that Berkeley isn't even the "land of Berkeley" or the "People's Republic of Berkeley" as right-wingers put it. Unless you are a student, Berkeley, once a working class town that elected a socialist mayor in the early 20th century, is now a playground for life-stylist yuppies.:(

[Forward Union]

HUMMERS FOR ALL!

http://www.hummerguy.net/wp-content/2008CustomHummerH2SUTWhiteMonotone.jpg

(I'm just kidding -- there's nothing utopian about that.)

I think you mention hummers in like, every other post you have ever made in your life.

[Robespierre2.0]

My utopian dream: Not being surrounded by a mess of fugly, multi-colored advertisements 24/7. Seriously, modern capitalist architecture is ugly as fuck and needs to die.

To elaborate, thanks to the profit motive, most buildings these days are prefabricated blocky structures with little ventilation, making them a breeding ground for bacteria. Since the logic of imperialist capitalism dictates that we sometimes must diminish the quality and durability of our products in order to keep people spending, the tendency is for these buildings to be leveled and replaced with new, blocky, bacteria-infested buildings every couple of years.

Plus, there's no uniform color scheme. Goddammit, every capitalist has to create their own logo, with a different font, and different choice of colors. It's disgusting what lengths they go to to give their commodities individuality, when I feel like my individuality, as a human, is denied. Disgusting, and ugly as sin.


Also, I'd hope we get rid of all this stupid fucking social constructs that make it so difficult to meet people and fall in love. Seriously, it seems to me like everyone regards the most trivial friendly gestures as infringements on their personal space. It seems like our culture trains us to view everyone else as 'strangers' out to kill, rob, or rape you rather than fellow villagers/countrymen.

[the last donut of the night]

They smoke a lot of weed in California.

well, they also smoke mad j's here too, but we don't do it whenever we please

[Vanguard1917]

I think you mention hummers in like, every other post you have ever made in your life.

Damn right.

[NecroCommie]

It seems like our culture trains us to view everyone else as 'strangers' out to kill, rob, or rape you rather than fellow villagers/countrymen.
'Sigh' I know where you come from. My father is one of these over suspicious weirdos.
"But there are many farmsteads here willing to house you for a modest fee!"
"Do you have any idea what those individuals are ready to do?! We have a plenty of valuable goods on us and they have no company reputation to uphold!"
":rolleyes:"

[Pogue]

massive internationalist circle jerks spreading the whole world

[bcbm]

HUMMERS FOR ALL!

(I'm just kidding -- there's nothing utopian about that.)

stupid

[bcbm]

:tt1:

[9]

When I was probably 12 or 13 I had this idea that there should be a daily artistic siesta, where in the middle of the day everyone would quit working and make art :lol:
I think that fits the definition of "utopian pipe dream" quite well. Of course, deep down I still think it's a cool idea, even though it is a utopian pipe dream. But deep down, I'm also a little bit of a hippie (ask bcbm; he knows). :o

[bcbm]

When I was probably 12 or 13 I had this idea that there should be a daily artistic siesta, where in the middle of the day everyone would quit working and make art :lol:
I think that fits the definition of "utopian pipe dream" quite well. Of course, deep down I still think it's a cool idea, even though it is a utopian pipe dream. But deep down, I'm also a little bit of a hippie (ask bcbm; he knows). :o

i think its a good idea, as long as i can use the siesta to just smoke opium and fuck with finger paints on an unethically comfortable day bed.

but yeah, you're a total hippie.

[Raúl Duke]

When I was probably 12 or 13 I had this idea that there should be a daily artistic siesta, where in the middle of the day everyone would quit working and make art :lol:
I think that fits the definition of "utopian pipe dream" quite well. Of course, deep down I still think it's a cool idea, even though it is a utopian pipe dream. But deep down, I'm also a little bit of a hippie (ask bcbm; he knows). :o

I like your idea...

I also like bcbm's idea of what he would do during artistic siesta.

I've always wanted to one day try opium by rolling a blunt, put some of the opium in the blunt along with mj, and then when rolled dipp the blunt in hash "honey oil." If I can have this I will approve of and engage in (some form; I don't think I'm good at art) artistic siesta.