Religion and Revolution

[Thirsty Crow]

I attended a public lecture yesterday and was left in quite a doubt.
In short, the topic of the lecture was the role of Christianity and its system of values and virtues in an event that could be called a revolution.
The intertexts of the lecture were Augustine's "De Civitate Dei" and Hardt&Negri's trilogy.

The questions that I would like to ask to the revleft community: do you think that religious values and virtues may become a means to a revolution? Do you think that any religion may become a unifying factor in the struggle against capitalist hegemony and exploitation? If yes, what preconditions need to be fulfilled?

[RedRise]

My personal opinion is that religion and politics should be kept as far apart as possible as that has been the cause of nearly all wars since the dawn of religion its self. However, the facts are that religion does carry a lot of political power and this could be used to good effect. I'm not Christian but I've found from reading bits of the Bible and other books that Jesus was practically preaching an early version of communism, or at least leftism. In essence he was advocating a revolution without the violence. So in a Christian community religion could become a unifying factor but today most communities have a wide variety of religions and cultures so that might be very difficult. Thought from what I've picked up every religion seems to have some element of revolution, if you look hard enough that is.

[New Tet]

I attended a public lecture yesterday and was left in quite a doubt.
In short, the topic of the lecture was the role of Christianity and its system of values and virtues in an event that could be called a revolution.
The intertexts of the lecture were Augustine's "De Civitate Dei" and Hardt&Negri's trilogy.

Sounds like it was an interesting lecture. It seems to have incited a healthy curiosity on your part.


The questions that I would like to ask to the revleft community:do you think that religious values and virtues may become a means to a revolution? Do you think that any religion may become a unifying factor in the struggle against capitalist hegemony and exploitation? If yes, what preconditions need to be fulfilled?As far back as Antiquity religion has served as a vehicle for revolution. Akhnaten tried to revolutionize his society by attempting to change the way in which the people of his time perceived God. He tried to supercede the Egyptian pantheon by instituting some form of Monotheism. From the archeological record, some presume that there was an eventual reaction on the part of the priestly class against Atenism resulting in its overthrow and reinstauration of the archaic religion.

[jump ahead about 1500 years and the info gets a little less fuzzy]

The Christian revolution was more radical and far reaching (although the political imposition of Monotheism seems pretty amazing, no doubt!).

Check out Crises in European History here (http://www.slp.org/pdf/others/crises_bang.pdf) or at this site: http://www.slp.org/litera2.htm#anchor150584

[New Tet]

My personal opinion is that religion and politics should be kept as far apart as possible as that has been the cause of nearly all wars since the dawn of religion its self.

Wrong as it may be, what you say is okay as a personal opinion but impracticable and downright harmful as a prescription for revolution.

[Thirsty Crow]

The Christian revolution was more radical and far reaching (although the political imposition of Monotheism seems pretty amazing, no doubt!).

Can you elaborate on the notion of the "Christian revolution"?
In other words, what kind of revolution did in fact occur? Or has a revolution occured?

[Invincible Summer]

Well look how many 'religious' people there are in the United States. They sure as hell aren't making any sort of revolution... in fact the Christian Fundies are more counter-revolutionary than anything

[danyboy27]

religion is one of the strongest tools for submission and make human easy to manipulate.

[Valeofruin]

In our day, a genuine revolution is the result of a positive or progressive force to, in a way, arise from the conditions of capitalism. Religion is the reactionary force to arise from the same conditions. Thus no religious revolution can be a progressive one.

This however is not to say a religious revolution can not be anti-Imperialist, or aid the genuine revolutionary forces.

[(A)(_|]

If religion is anything, I know it doesn't promote social progression. It is certainly credited, at least here in the mid-east for being very communal and a superlative when it comes to ethics and morals. However the problem with religion is that anyone who holds to it doesn't stick to all its values. He takes what suits him and leaves out the rest. This would be very justifiable considering religion always induces selfishness while claiming to be otherwise. Although I must add that religion is the only moral standard in poor and impoverished areas as it is better to hold on to a moral reference that is mass supported than not hold to any at all, considering that ignorance is always associated with havoc and mayhem.

The Muslim brotherhood here in Egypt is -believe it or not- is the primary opposition to the government. However most of its members are just a pile of self-interested scum who seek nothing but authority. We all must understand that religion is in essence controlled and propagated by the media, which is pro-capitalist and shapes religion the way it wants the people to see it. I would agree having read Islamic texts and having heard about Christian ones from my friends that religion is pro-community, and from what I've heard about Christianity, it has a considerable socialist aspect to it. Many of my Christian friends have told me that it has a very strong stance against rich people and excess of any kind, so I would suppose that a pure religious unity would actually pose a threat to capitalism, albeit never a revolution considering it is very minimally understood as a social or materialistic interpretation, more a spiritual and ethical one.

[tradeunionsupporter]

Religion keeps the Working class down.

[spiltteeth]

in the West, communism was a Christian movement. The early Christians and monks knew it, and later there was Thomas More's "Utopia," and soon the New World became peppered with experiments in Christian communism, like the "Bible Communists" of Oneida New York, with Father Noyes. Wasn't Paraguay founded as a communist experiment by Jesuits? Socialism was, as the original socialists explained, "Nouveau Christianisme."
In the 1600s the True Levellers, followers of Gerrard Winstanley, believed in the concept of "levelling men's estates" in order to create equality. They also took over common land for what they believed to be the common good.
During the mid-to-late 1840s, the largest organization espousing communist ideas in Europe was the League of the Just, whose motto was "All Men are Brothers" and whose aim was to establish a new society "based on the ideals of love of one's neighbor, equality and justice". Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels joined the League of the Just in 1847. Under their influence, the organization became secular and atheistic and changed its name to the Communist League.
many liberation theologians (including bishops and other prominent clergymen) supported the Sandinista government of Nicaragua in the 1980s.

[danyboy27]

where i came from religion was a tool of the state to control the people.
tanks for christianism for the countless number of orphan who where sexually abused during the duplessis period.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duplessis_Orphans

christian run psychiatric hospital and orphanage.

hundred, maybe thousand of boy and girl who where sexually abused and beaten by nun and priests.

strong anti-communism from the catholic church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Noirceur