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View Full Version : The elitist "vanguard" vs. the revolutionary vanguard



Revy
8th December 2009, 02:35
from the SWP split thread:


Elitism is actually the opposite of vanguardism (something which I am no longer opposed to). You see, a revolutionary vanguard wants to advance itself, not tear itself apart.

I wouldn't say thats a reason why elitism is 'the opposite of vanguardism'. It doesn't make sense to say that, as its pretty obvious no organisation would want to tear itself apart. The question is whether or not vanguardism could represent a form of elitism. I myself think it depends on what 'rights' a vanguard party thinks it has, i.e. I'd say Trotsky's view that a vanguard party could tell a worker what job to do is even more worrying than simple 'elitism'.

As Hal Draper put it (in The Two Souls of Socialism):



Can the workers fit themselves? ... He was under no starry-eyed illusions about the working class as it was (or is). But he proposed a different goal than the elitists whose sole wisdom consists in pointing a finger at the backwardness of the people now, and in teaching that this must always be so. As against the faith in elite rule from above, Debs counterpoised the directly contrary notion of the revolutionary vanguard (also a minority) whose faith impels them to advocate a harder road for the majority:
It is the minorities who have made the history of this world [he said in the 1917 anti-war speech for which Wilsons government jailed him]. It is the few who have had the courage to take their places at the front; who have been true enough to themselves to speak the truth that was in them; who have dared oppose the established order of things; who have espoused the cause of the suffering, struggling poor; who have upheld without regard to personal consequences the cause of freedom and righteousness.and then in another chapter later this is explained more clearly:


On the other hand, the revolutionary-democratic advocates of Socialism-from-Below have also always been a minority, but the chasm between the elitist approach and the vanguard approach is crucial, as we have seen in the case of Debs. For him as for Marx and Luxemburg, the function of the revolutionary vanguard is to impel the mass-majority to fit themselves to take power in their own name, through their own struggles. The point is not to deny the critical importance of minorities, but to establish a different relationship between the advanced minority and the more backward mass.

Lyev
8th December 2009, 23:15
It's an interesting topic certainly, I made a thread similar to this called "Organizational Alternatives to Vanguardism" and I didn't really go any because people get their sects so involved in it. Anyway a question I've been trying to ask myself is where should consciousness come from? or perhaps how should consciousness come about? I think you hit the nail on the head with "through their own struggles"; when I've been thinking about vanguardism and organisation it always comes back down to "the emancipation of the working class must be the work of the working class itself". I don't think their should be any misconception about "giving down" socialism, per se, or any misunderstanding on what a vanguard should be. Marx implies something here:

They [communists] have no interests separate and apart from those of the proletariat as a whole.

They do not set up any sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement.

The Communists are distinguished from the other working-class parties by this only: 1. In the national struggles of the proletarians of the different countries, they point out and bring to the front the common interests of the entire proletariat, independently of all nationality. 2. In the various stages of development which the struggle of the working class against the bourgeoisie has to pass through, they always and everywhere represent the interests of the movement as a whole.

The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.

The immediate aim of the Communists is the same as that of all other proletarian parties: formation of the proletariat into a class, overthrow of the bourgeois supremacy, conquest of political power by the proletariat. A point a made in my thread on vanguardism is that I don't think it's a coincidence that most vanguard-led revolutions have had a thermidor effect and degenerated into bureuacracies. However in countries the size of China and Russia how else do you organise without a minority at the front of it? I think in said big country it is too easy to slip into elitism because of a vanguard, the worker's movement and the vanguard are seperated; in Russia because of it's size it was a whole year before some people actually heard about the revolution because of it's size (although what with the technology of today it would be somewhat different, probably). The worker's movement should be a majority and always a majority and not a majority with a totally seperate minority leadership at it's head.

Well that's just my musing, they're a bit rambly.