Lists of companies that do and do not support workers?

[DesertShark]

Is there a list on here of companies (laid out by country and/or region) that support worker's rights? Or a list of companies where the workers are in control of production? If not, I think we should create such a list so its easier for people to support these companies.

Additionally, is there a list of companies in extreme violation of worker's rights? If not, creating this list would allow for people to begin complaining to, canvassing against, and boycotting them. Perhaps later the list could be expanded to include companies with smaller violations (I figure there's a lot of these so it would be better to start with the worst ones).

If we want things to change, it has to start with us.

[the last donut of the night]

Is there a list on here of companies (laid out by country and/or region) that support worker's rights? Or a list of companies where the workers are in control of production? If not, I think we should create such a list so its easier for people to support these companies.

Additionally, is there a list of companies in extreme violation of worker's rights? If not, creating this list would allow for people to begin complaining to, canvassing against, and boycotting them. Perhaps later the list could be expanded to include companies with smaller violations (I figure there's a lot of these so it would be better to start with the worst ones).

If we want things to change, it has to start with us.


There are no companies that 'support' workers' rights. A company is based on exploiting a worker, so that's an oxymoron.

We should support no companies.

Also, your sig says that you are a Pacifist. That absolutely makes no sense. Dude, get your shit together.

[StoneFrog]

There is such a thing as being an Anarchist and a Pacifist, revolution doesn't have to be violent.

I think he's talking about organizations in which the workers are in control of the production, this kinda fits into the idea of where he comes from politically. Change the way people think and deprive the capitalists of their income and control over the worker. Slowly having more and more worker based companies/organizations in which a whole society and be based off. I don't support this method, and im sure i don't have all the ideas down, but because his/her views aren't the norm here doesn't mean they need to get their shit together. I would guess its a more Gandhi approach rather than a physical revolution which most of us think of.

On topic: I don't know of any company or organization which the workers control themselves, i did hear of some paper factory in Canada where the workers bought out the owners, because it was going to be shut down and they run it but i don't know what hierarchy is in place. For the life of my i can't remember the companies name or which province, i know it was on the east coast.

[DesertShark]

There are no companies that 'support' workers' rights. A company is based on exploiting a worker, so that's an oxymoron.

We should support no companies.

Also, your sig says that you are a Pacifist. That absolutely makes no sense. Dude, get your shit together.
wow...way to jump at the chance for a personal attack, feeling a little insecure these days?

You are wrong when you say, "There are no companies that 'support' workers' rights. A company is based on exploiting a worker, so that's an oxymoron." I know of two companies that are owned by the workers, check out the following websites if you do not believe me.
http://isthmuseng.com/aboutus/workerownedcoop/workerownedcoop.aspx
^Isthmus Engineering: company's "Seven Cooperative Principles":
• Open membership - no gender, social, racial, political or religious discrimination
• Democratic control - one member, one vote
• Equitable economic participation among members and distribution of profits based on patronage
• Autonomy and independence - controlled by members
• Education and training
• Cooperation among cooperatives
• Concern for community
http://www.alvaradostreetbakery.com/coop.html
^Alvarado Street Bakery: describes cooperatives as "a business voluntarily owned and controlled by its member patrons and operated for them and by them on a nonprofit or cost basis. It is owned by the people who use it ... based on the values of self-help, self-responsibility, democracy, equality, equity and solidarity."

Additionally in Germany unions help hire and fire the board of directors so the workers have a say in what's going on.
Automotive Industries, June, 1998: (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_n6_v178/ai_20846022/) "Under the law, German companies are run by co-determination. Labor representatives have half the seats on the supervisory board. That board appoints individuals to the management board and may fire them. It advises management and reviews financial reports. It must also insure profits."
Atlantic Times, February, 2006: (http://www.atlantic-times.com/archive_detail.php?recordID=431) "By law, publicly held companies in Germany are governed by a two-tier board structure, a 20-member supervisory board that appoints the managing board. Germany's laws on worker co-management of companies, an idiosyncrasy much praised, despised and discussed, give worker representatives half the seats on the supervisory board."

But I only know of these companies because of Michael Moore's anti-capitalism movie. I made this thread to bring more companies to light if people knew about them.

[DesertShark]

There is such a thing as being an Anarchist and a Pacifist, revolution doesn't have to be violent.

I think he's talking about organizations in which the workers are in control of the production, this kinda fits into the idea of where he comes from politically. Change the way people think and deprive the capitalists of their income and control over the worker. Slowly having more and more worker based companies/organizations in which a whole society and be based off. I don't support this method, and im sure i don't have all the ideas down, but because his/her views aren't the norm here doesn't mean they need to get their shit together. I would guess its a more Gandhi approach rather than a physical revolution which most of us think of.

On topic: I don't know of any company or organization which the workers control themselves, i did hear of some paper factory in Canada where the workers bought out the owners, because it was going to be shut down and they run it but i don't know what hierarchy is in place. For the life of my i can't remember the companies name or which province, i know it was on the east coast.
A revolution will never be successful if most of the people are not on board. So educating people has to be the start of the revolution. In addition to that, the best way to fight capitalism is to not be apart of it. But in today's society that's pretty hard to do, this was an attempt to make that a realistic possibility.

[StoneFrog]

A revolution will never be successful if most of the people are not on board. So educating people has to be the start of the revolution. In addition to that, the best way to fight capitalism is to not be apart of it. But in today's society that's pretty hard to do, this was an attempt to make that a realistic possibility.

I agree, we first need to bring about a social change, change the minds of the people while denying the capitalists their control. We need more people which are willing to not just jump straight into a revolution but first build a community in which the bourgeoisie have less control over us. This will help build a class consciousness, and make the revolution more powerful. Obviously I'm not a pacifist, and do think a active revolution is required to stamp out capitalism.
Also use free open source software to help deny bourgeoisie monopoly over us, we have to become independent of the capitalism control.

[ellipsis]

Deans Beans, Amherst, MA is very egalitarian.

[Patchd]

You are wrong when you say, "There are no companies that 'support' workers' rights. A company is based on exploiting a worker, so that's an oxymoron." I know of two companies that are owned by the workers, check out the following websites if you do not believe me.

You're quite right, cooperatives do exist, I think RedManatee took what you meant by business by it's more literal meaning. In the sense of a bureaucratic, profit-accumulating and employing company, as opposed to a directly democratically run workplace, run by the workforce, organised horizontally. Cooperatives don't exist en masse though, and they're hard to establish and keep going. In addition to that, cooperatives can also refer to a cooperation of companies, which are still run hierarchically, with managers, only difference is that everyone receives a share of the profits made in that year, obviously more of that 'share' goes to the managers and company directors.

There's a very good example of a horizontalist workplace in Argentina, I can't remember the name, but I think the workers took up occupation of the factory after the owner ran it to the ground and threatened to shut down the factory and make all the workers redundant. The workers resumed production and continued working there for years until I think in 2002 a court proceeding granted them the right to stay there. I have to stress though that this is a very rare occurance, this is what we must fight for though, workers to take what is rightfully theirs, the places they work in, teach in, eat in etc... Judges won't grant this very often, that would run counter to their role, their role being the protection of capital and the status quo.

This moves onto my other point, as this links in with other aspects of capitalism which preserves it. The armed forces, police force and judiciary among other things keep us submissive at all times, and if ever we rise up, even peacefully, they are always there to make sure they 'do their job', that being the protection of capitalism. What I wonder then is how we can have a peaceful revolution?


A revolution will never be successful if most of the people are not on board. So educating people has to be the start of the revolution. In addition to that, the best way to fight capitalism is to not be apart of it. But in today's society that's pretty hard to do, this was an attempt to make that a realistic possibility.No, sorry, this is not realistic at all. Education is an important part of making workers aware of the need for the overthrow of the ruling class, but abstention from the capitalist system is impossible for starters, and secondly it does nothing to advance the class struggle, you will think you have abstained from capitalist society, and therefore alienate yourself from the class. Abstention from society is something which many people cannot do, what will happen to the running of hospitals? What will happen to medical research, infrastructure mainenance, or the railway system?

You see, abstention, assuming the majority of society does so, will lead to a collapse of advanced society, or revolution (very likely a violent one, because let's face it, very rarely do the ruling class never have a force which remain loyal to them which they can use to preserve their authority). But I guess I haven't explained why I think abstention from capitalism is impossible yet.

Well, firstly, consider your surroundings right now, you are living in a capitalist society, that's a fact. Even if you work in a cooperative, where you are not exploiting other workers, and you yourself are not exploited, then fine. But let's say your cooperative is a shop, where will you get your electricity? Will you produce it yourself, or will you purchase it? If you do the latter, you're participating in capitalism, and therefore the exploitation of workers whether you like it or not. Now, electricity isn't the only example, you will have to pay tax (which in turns mean you participating in the accumulation of profit in order to be able to pay tax), you will not be exempt because you are a cooperative, in addition, you will probably use other services under capitalism, which again will contribute to the exploitation of workers. Water, gas, deliveries (petrol, drivers etc.) and so forth.

A complete abstention from capitalism is to live in the forest with no contact from anyone, and that doesn't help to change society for the better.

[the last donut of the night]

Also, I don't think that anybody pointed out the fact that cooperatives, while commendable as a tool in class struggle, are still working in a capitalist system if they are isolated (usually in periods of low class-consciousness). They still have to exploit themselves if they wish to survive commercially.

And apologies to the OP, I didn't mean to seem so aggressive.:blushing:

[cyu]

Is there a list on here of companies (laid out by country and/or region) that support worker's rights? Or a list of companies where the workers are in control of production?


Here are a few (partial) lists from wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_cooperatives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Recovered_factories
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Worker_cooperatives

Mondragon: http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23059 (http://www.anonym.to/?http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23059)

"Started in 1956 with five workers in a small shop making kerosene stoves, MCC today has over 100,000 worker-owners in some 260 enterprises in 40 countries. Annual sales are pegged at more than 16 billion Euros with a wide range of products--high tech machine tools, motor buses, household appliances and a chain of supermarkets. MCC also maintains its own banks, health clinics, welfare system, schools and the 4000 student Mondragon University--all worker-owned coops.

"Under Spanish law, because the MCC worker-owners are not technically wage-labor, but get their income from a share of the profits, they are excluded from much of the country's social welfare safety net pertaining to workers. MCC responded by organizing and funding it's own 'second degree' cooperatives--health care clinics, retirement plans, schools and other social services, all cooperatively owned with their own worker assemblies."

The Histadrut: http://home.comcast.net/~chtongyu/histadrut.html

1950: "The Histadruth... embraces over 75 per cent of all wage earners in Israel. This dominant position of Histadruth is due to the fact that it is not only the representative of organized employed labor but also the largest single employer in Israel, controlling numerous cooperatives and holding companies, operating transportation, industry, and banking. During the period of the British Mandate the Histadruth organized many agencies which are customarily the concern of government, such as a labor educational system and a special health service for workers and their families. It is for this reason that the Histadruth has sometimes been referred to as a state within a state...

1978: "Founded in 1920 by two socialist parties whose total membership did not exceed a few thousand in order to stimulate and undertake the kind of activities described, this organization grew in the course of the next generation to the point where its affiliated enterprises accounted in the 1950s for nearly one-fourth of gross national product of Israel and employed the same proportion of the labor force, its trade unions affiliated 90 percent of the workers by hand and by brain, and its health insurance service embraced two-thirds of the total population. So powerful did this Workers Society become that some of its leaders claimed for it parity with or even priority over the state."

This isn't to say I think either Mondragon or the Histadrut are perfect, just as I wouldn't say any democracies are perfect. That's why people argue about policies in democracies after all.

[New Tet]

Is there a list on here of companies (laid out by country and/or region) that support worker's rights? Or a list of companies where the workers are in control of production? If not, I think we should create such a list so its easier for people to support these companies.

Additionally, is there a list of companies in extreme violation of worker's rights? If not, creating this list would allow for people to begin complaining to, canvassing against, and boycotting them. Perhaps later the list could be expanded to include companies with smaller violations (I figure there's a lot of these so it would be better to start with the worst ones).

If we want things to change, it has to start with us.

I agree, but what you seek is not relevant or necessary.

As others before me have pointed out in this thread, it's too late for exclusively struggling with employers over peripheral and consequent individual workers' rights or against their violation.

All injustices and abuses that are committed against workers, individually and as a class, employed and not, are the result of one, very fundamental injustice that takes place every day under capitalism and under our very noses. If we redress that injustice, all others will eventually disappear, I do believe.

Marx said it better here:


At the same time, and quite apart from the general servitude involved in the wages system, the working class ought not to exaggerate to themselves the ultimate working of these everyday struggles. They ought not to forget that they are fighting with effects, but not with the causes of those effects; that they are retarding the downward movement, but not changing its direction; that they are applying palliatives, not curing the malady. They ought, therefore, not to be exclusively absorbed in these unavoidable guerilla fights incessantly springing up from the never ceasing encroachments of capital or changes of the market. They ought to understand that, with all the miseries it imposes upon them, the present system simultaneously engenders the material conditions and the social forms necessary for an economical reconstruction of society. Instead of the conservative motto: “A fair day's wage for a fair day's work!” they ought to inscribe on their banner the revolutionary watchword: “Abolition of the wages system!"

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm#c14