Mikhail Bakunin

[btpound]

What do you think of the prominent anarchist wirter and revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin? Personally, though I am no longer an anarchist, I still like his work and think he has some relevant points. Personally, his "God and the State" is what made me an atheist.

[Pogue]

I haven't read any of it, I've never had much itnerest in doing so either, is it particularly well written?

[btpound]

lol. no not at all actually. God and the State isn't even finished. He was arrested before he could complete it and it actually stops in mid-sentance.

[ellipsis]

I have seen his name mentioned but never really gotten an idea of what he was about. He seems to be held in high esteem by anarchists, so I am interested in learning more.

[MarxSchmarx]

Umm... he is only, like, the founder of modern anarcho-communist thought?

lol. no not at all actually. God and the State isn't even finished. He was arrested before he could complete it and it actually stops in mid-sentance.


You don't have to read Bakunin. I've tried, and it's dreadful. He didn't write as carefully as Marx, and there are much better anarchist writers after him (Kropotkin for one). Still, I have to wonder if some of the posts above are sarcastic?

[Die Neue Zeit]

His one valuable work, comrade, is a critique of the Eisenach program of the German Social-Democratic Workers Party (SAPD) which neither Marx nor Engels made.

[btpound]

Bakunin was actually a heated rival of Marx. I read somewhere that it is because of their rivalry that the First International came apart, but I don't know how much truth there is to that. I think he is worth a read. His major works are "Statism and Anarcy", "God and the State", and "Marxism, Freedom, and the State". He is definitely the founder of Anarcho-communism thought along with Kropotkin, and broke Anarchism away from it's petty-bourgeois roots.

I bring him up because I really liked him when I was an anarchist, but my thinking was still an amalgum of proudonist/bakuninist anarchism. He was important to me because it was him that convinced me to be an atheist. I think that some of his ideas on freedom and liberty are still valueable. I also think that a healthy hatred for athority is necessary for any good communist or revolutionary in general. Thats just my opinion though.

[Robocommie]

lol. no not at all actually. God and the State isn't even finished. He was arrested before he could complete it and it actually stops in mid-sentance.

"I just had the best idea how to end capitalism and bring about peace for all mankind. It's so simple, I can't believe I've never thought of it before. All we have to do is..."

[Os Cangaceiros]

I think he gets unfairly maligned sometimes (by both Marxists AND anarchists). No, he wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but his body of thought was fairly consistent, and while he wasn't as smart as Marx was, he did put out theory that would later prove to be the foundation for modern anarchism, as well as participated actively as a revolutionary.

(Although I do agree that other writers who came later like Malatesta were better.)

[Comrade Anarchist]

If Proudhon is the father of anarchism then Bakunin is the mother. He was the opposing force to marx and marx's authoritarianism and the rallying point for all anarchists at the 1st international. I disagree with collectivist anarchism b/c i believe in the abolishment of wages and b/c it gives too much power to the workers, but without him anarchism would be much smaller presence in revolutionary thought and would have been trampled at the 1st international.

[ellipsis]

Too much power to the workers? How is this possible?

[syndicat]

Bakunin proposed that a socialist republic would be created by the federation of the workers unions taking over. sort of like the idea of soviet power.

The dispute between Marx and his associates and the political tendency around Bakunin shouldn't be overly personalized, as there were certain strategic differences that were fundamental. Marx and Engels wanted the worker organizations to form political parties to contest in elections. The libertarian socialists around Bakunin were talking in terms of general strikes, and continuing the international as an organization of mass worker organizations, that is, unions, rather than an international of parties, as was later formed with the Socialist International.

[whore]

Umm... he is only, like, the founder of modern anarcho-communist thought?

err no, anarcho collectivist thought. a lot of anarchists didn't call themselves communists until after he died because they respected him too mcuh.

anyway, i think a lot of his anti-theist stuff is quite interesting (god and the state for example). and he did do a lot to popularise anarchism in europe, so yeah!

but, well malatesta was a better writer it is true.

[Sand Castle]

I'm sorry if somebody else posted this and I missed it. I just see you all were discussing the relationship between Marx and Bakunin. Well, I find this quote relevant and interesting. I'm just sharing, not making a point.

“I believe that Herr Marx is a very serious if not very honest revolutionary, and that he really is in favor of the rebellion of the masses.” - Bakunin, 1872

My source is "Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction" by Colin Ward.

[The Feral Underclass]

What do you think of the prominent anarchist wirter and revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin?

I think he was the shit! If you ever get the chance, you should read Bakunin: A Creative Passion, written by Mark Leier. Leier is an anarchist and so you get a sympathetic interpretation of his ideas, which he explains very easily. It's a brilliant book for anyone wanting to learn about his life and ideas.


Personally, though I am no longer an anarchist, I still like his work and think he has some relevant points. Personally, his "God and the State" is what made me an atheist.I agree with other peoples thoughts that his writings are often erratic and unfinished and I can understand why that might be frustrating to people, but I think if you read his work in the context of his life, you can really understand his mind better. It makes his ideas resonate more palpably.

Bakunin really consolidated and expanded on the principles of anarchy and his contribution to the ideology is immeasurable. He essentially founded modern anarchism.

[(A)narcho-Matt]

Marxism, Freedom, and the State is awesome. As the only anarchist in my circle of friends at uni, its good to have a good theoretical citique of marx to fall back on. Also one of the best Bakunin quotes is; "if god really existed, it would be neccessary to abolish him." from god and the state. :star:

[ZeroNowhere]

As the only anarchist in my circle of friends at uni, its good to have a good theoretical citique of marx to fall back on.I personally find Hayek to be far better in that respect.

[Agnapostate]

Umm... he is only, like, the founder of modern anarcho-communist thought?

What was said above is correct; though I suspect Bakunin would have been an anarcho-communist had it been coherently formulated during his lifetime, anarchist communism was "declared" an existing ideology by Malatesta in his comrades of the Jura Federation after Bakunin's death, out of respect for his collectivist ideology, which differed in that it retained wages and remuneration based on labor input more than needs.


I personally find Hayek to be far better in that respect.

Oh? The Road to Serfdom seemed a critique of actually-existing Leninism rather than Marxist theory, and his contributions to the socialist calculation debate followed that pattern, considering that Marx's primary focus was anti-capitalism.

[RadioRaheem84]

Oh? The Road to Serfdom seemed a critique of actually-existing Leninism rather than Marxist theory, and his contributions to the socialist calculation debate followed that pattern, considering that Marx's primary focus was anti-capitalism.

Really? It seemed more like a critique of fascism to me, even though Hayek kept trumpeting it as "socialism".

[Agnapostate]

Really? It seemed more like a critique of fascism to me, even though Hayek kept trumpeting it as "socialism".

It was a critique of authoritarianism in general, but Austrians do have an asinine idea that fascism is a form of socialism.

[Manifesto]

lol. no not at all actually. God and the State isn't even finished. He was arrested before he could complete it and it actually stops in mid-sentance.
Never understood this what exactly happened to where the book got published and he did not even complete it?

[Tifosi]

I heard he was anti-semitic but I don't buy it. Anyone got anymore info?

[whore]

I heard he was anti-semitic but I don't buy it. Anyone got anymore info?
does it matter? i believe that proudhon was sexist and probaly anti-semitic too, but it doesn't detract from the good stuff he wrote.

tolstoy was a crazy wacky god botherer, but some of his stuff on pacifism is still interesting (though wrong).

there is no "perfect" person. we take the good, and discard the bad. that's the way it goes

(emma goldman and malatesta were both bloody good writers all up, and didn't, as far as i know, write any sexist, racist or homophobic crap. read their works if you don't want anything bad.)