Youth Communist League

[Lyev]

I'm looking into organizations at the moment and was wondering if you folks have had an experience with the YCL. I've had a browse on the website, but I thought if you any of you guys have any first hand experiences it'd be lovely if you could share them (by the way, I'm 15). I was wondering if there is also any decent British youth socialist parties. I understand these guys are on off-shoot of the CPGB, and they're Marxist-Leninist? I'm a Trotskyist if anything, but I'm open-minded and I was wondering if my stance as a Trot would effect me possibly joining with these guys. Thanks in advance comrades.

(Oh, and I wasn't sure if this was the right place to put this, please may someone move it if it's wrong? Thanks.)

Edit: Another thing too, I was thinking, what are these chaps stances on various things, eg. Cuba socialist? and Occupation of Palestine, Obama, radical Islam and whatnot etc. thanks again.

[bailey_187]

The YCL member i met didnt uphold Stalin, avoided the question of the USSR

They support Cuba - its the only actual Socialist country that is acceptable to support apparently

The one member in question can not be considered a ML in my opinion

Although they can not be generalised to all

[The Ungovernable Farce]

I'd advise against the YCL like the plague. Stalinists in their heyday, a dwindling band toothless social democrats today, although still with a lingering fondness for various state capitalist dictatorships. Obviously, I'd advise that if you're looking for people with decent consistent revolutionary politics then you should look into anarchism, but if you're specifically looking for Trot youth groups, then I'd say that the SWP, as the largest party on the left, usually have a fair number of young people, and Revolution (http://www.worldrevolution.org.uk/) and International Socialist Resistance (http://www.anticapitalism.org.uk/index.php) are specifically Trot youth groups (fronts for Workers' Power and the Socialist Party respectively). They may not have anyone in your area, but then there's no guarantee that the YCL will either, and those groups sound like they're much closer to your politics. Finally, if you're in London, Edinburgh or Leeds, I'd recommend looking into the School Students' Union (http://londonssu.org.uk/?page_id=7), since that seems to be much closer to being a genuinely independent group where you can work out your politics on your own (the person I know is quite close to the AWL, but not actually a member, and much sounder than most people you'll find on the left). But yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend joining a clapped-out band of Stalinists like the YCL if you're not actually a Stalinist.

[CELMX]

But yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend joining a clapped-out band of Stalinists like the YCL if you're not actually a Stalinist.

Um...are you saying that social democrats=stalinists?!?:confused:

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions, Farce!!
I definitely agree that YCL is total shit (as it is derived from CPUSA, which is total shit as well) and that it is full of social democrats.

I would recommend Young People's Socialist League (http://www.ypsl.org/fusion/viewpage.php?page_id=14). and YSA (http://www.socialistaction.org/ysa.htm)

good luck:thumbup1:

[bailey_187]

Um...are you saying that social democrats=stalinists?!?:confused:

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions, Farce!!
I definitely agree that YCL is total shit (as it is derived from CPUSA, which is total shit as well) and that it is full of social democrats.

I would recommend Young People's Socialist League (http://www.ypsl.org/fusion/viewpage.php?page_id=14). and YSA (http://www.socialistaction.org/ysa.htm)

good luck:thumbup1:

He is talking about the YCL of the CPB, in Britain. Total shit still anyway.

[Wanted Man]

He is talking about the YCL of the CPB, in Britain. Total shit still anyway.

"Total shit". :lol: Whatever, perhaps they would be better if they walked around demos with huuuuge pictures of Stalin, and treated undying devotion to Stalin and modern-day China as cardinal issues for communists today. :rolleyes:

@ OP: I met a member of theirs once during a conference, and that was about 2 years ago. I'm not from the UK so I can't say anything about what they do. You can check out their website (http://www.ycl.org.uk/) and their paper "Challenge". Perhaps it also contains info on some of the subjects that you want to know their viewpoints about. I suppose, like most communists, they would support Cuba and oppose the occupation of Palestine and the imperialist wars that continue to be waged under Obama.

Also, the same thing that I said to a user who asked questions about the US maoist group RCP a while ago: why not check it out? Give them a mail or a call, see if they're active near you, and find out what they do. If you can get active, then try; some people here seem to think that you first need to get pigeonholed as a "trotskyist" or something else, then find a group that fits this, and then joining them in any way is like a marriage that you can't get a divorce from. The reality is that this is not necessary at all.

Be bold, see who is active near you and if they're accommodating someone who is newly interested in their politics (they should be, it's not like the left is doing extremely well in Britain...). Probably better than waiting on Revleft, looking for the ultimate theoretical truth, while everyone says that only one group is worth joining and all the others are "total shit"... You can find that out for yourself: if they aren't active near you and can't do anything for you, then look somewhere else.

[Spawn of Stalin]

They support the Labour Party and are not revolutionary, they want to create socialism by working within the capitalist framework, in other words, by getting a majority in Parliament, which isn't going to happen. If you're a Trotskyist you should have a look at SPEW.

[bailey_187]

"Total shit". :lol: Whatever, perhaps they would be better if they walked around demos with huuuuge pictures of Stalin, and treated undying devotion to Stalin and modern-day China as cardinal issues for communists today. :rolleyes:.

Better than trying to get back "old" labour and calling for supporting labour to "kick the tories out, and elect a labour goverment commited to left policies". I would rather uphold Stalin than the Labour Party. You act like the CPGB-ML walks around with that banner everyday.

Also, the CPB upholds modern-day China. They have held meetings on it and sell pamphlets about it.
http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66
http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=26&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66

[Lyev]

Thanks very much everyone for your replies, very helpful, what organizations are you guys part of? Furthermore, what does being part of these organizations entail? It's kind of hard because, as I think someone up there ^ said, every organization is going to be shouting that they're the best people to join and everyone is else is shit.

[Spawn of Stalin]

I am a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist), our main focus is on education, we hold study groups, Party schools, etc. But we also walk around London with a huge portrait of Stalin sometimes. You might want to have a look at our papers Proletarian and Lalkar, see my signature for links. Obviously I am going to say that the CPGB-ML is the best party in the world and that it's the only one worth joining, I do believe this, I love my Party but it wouldn't be right for me to say you should join us because frankly if you're a Trotskyist we wouldn't have you anyway, nothing personal but we are anti-revisionist Marxist-Leninists, so we're not big on Trotsky at all! But click on my signature anyway, there is something for everyone in Lalkar.

[Pogue]

I'd recomend you just kotch with a few different groups for a bit, see what you think of them, see how their theory fits in with you, and then make a decision. Don't rush into joining a group simply based upon a website or such and such.

[bailey_187]

I'd recomend you just kotch with a few different groups for a bit, see what you think of them, see how their theory fits in with you, and then make a decision. Don't rush into joining a group simply based upon a website or such and such.

This is very true. Attend any meetings any groups are holding that you can, whether they are trotskyists, Marxist-Leninist, anarchist or whatever - you will learn something from all of them.

It will also allow you meet members and see if you would actually like to work with them.

[The Ungovernable Farce]

Um...are you saying that social democrats=stalinists?!?:confused:

I was saying that the direction taken by the "revisionist" Stalinists of the CPB and CPUSA makes them almost identical to tame social democrats, although they still have recognisably Stalinist characteristics, like support for the Chinese dictatorship. Obviously it's possible to be a social democrat without having a soft spot for Stalinist regimes or tactics. I think bailey's post sums up how the CPB manage to combine social democracy and Stalinism.


Thanks very much everyone for your replies, very helpful, what organizations are you guys part of? Furthermore, what does being part of these organizations entail? It's kind of hard because, as I think someone up there ^ said, every organization is going to be shouting that they're the best people to join and everyone is else is shit.
If someone's in an organisation, it usually says above their posts, in the top right corner. Personally, I'm in the Anarchist Federation, and I personally think we're the best people to join and everyone else is shit. But obviously you shouldn't join us if you don't agree with our politics. Look at organisations carefully and critically - most will try and tell you that being an anti-capitalist logically means you have to be a Marxist which means you have to be a Leninist which means you have to think their particular interpretation of Leninism must be the correct one, which (in my opinion) isn't true at all. A lot of it comes down to where you live: if you're in, say, London, Manchester or Leeds, you should be able to find a group that suits your ideas pretty well, if you're somewhere smaller and more isolated then you might find that the SWP or Socialist Party are the only presence in the area. If that's the case, obviously it makes sense to work with them, but don't join unless you really feel that you're properly convinced that their arguments make sense.

I'd recomend you just kotch with a few different groups for a bit, see what you think of them, see how their theory fits in with you, and then make a decision. Don't rush into joining a group simply based upon a website or such and such.
Quoted for truth.

[Honggweilo]

You act like the CPGB-ML walks around with that banner everyday.

Even though i like the GPGB-ML analyses and Harpal Brar.. they kinda do sometimes (in turning alot of practical discussions into untactical deep historical references, which are kinda redudant in some cases. Also the continuois need to smack the 5 classic on everything)


Also, the CPB upholds modern-day China. They have held meetings on it and sell pamphlets about it.
http://communist-party.org.uk/index....mart&Itemid=66 (http://www.anonym.to/?http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=41&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66)
http://communist-party.org.uk/index....mart&Itemid=66 (http://www.anonym.to/?http://communist-party.org.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=26&category_id=1&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66)

This is something i highly disagree with too, although publishing a brochure on present day China or having meetings on the subject hardly say they uncritically support China. In a way, Hands of China is much more militant in its defence.

[bailey_187]

One of the pamphlets is a report from a CPB delegation to China IIRC.
They do support China definatly. Uncritically? I dont know. Although, a book by one of there members "Marx and the Millenium" defends the PLA's actions in Tiannamen 1989.

Concerning the CPGB-ML, i am not a member and can only speak from personal experience, but when i first met the CPGB-ML (at a Palestine demo) they did not mention Stalin once. They just mentioned usuall Socialism stuff and invited me to join their Study Groups. When i looked up the party later, i was actually a bit surprised about their ideological line

[Spawn of Stalin]

For the record, we only take Uncle Joe out on May Day.