Goldman Sachs officials arming themselves

[fabiansocialist]

An article (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=ahD2WoDAL9h0) in Bloomberg:


... The banker had told this friend of mine that senior Goldman people have loaded up on firearms and are now equipped to defend themselves if there is a populist uprising against the bank.

Talk that Goldman bankers might have armed themselves in self-defense would sound ludicrous, were it not so apt a metaphor for the way that the most successful people on Wall Street have become a target for public rage.

So they were robbers before; now they will be armed robbers.

[Spawn of Stalin]

Just another reason to attack the bastards. "He was going for his gun...I had no choice." This is just a taste of things to come I imagine, they're afraid and so they should be.

[Robocommie]

I think it's probably a good sign that those fuckers are afraid. Let them be.

[proudcomrade]

First they stole swine flu vaccine from the people; now, this. The bastards really are running scared, aren't they?

[KurtFF8]

I think it's probably a good sign that those fuckers are afraid. Let them be.

It certainly isn't the revolutionary left that they're afraid of though

[Robocommie]

It certainly isn't the revolutionary left that they're afraid of though

That is regrettable. It'd be nice if we had the publicity that those 9/12 jackasses do.

[Bitter Ashes]

It certainly isn't the revolutionary left that they're afraid of though
I'm not so sure if that's accurate Kurt. Does somebody who seeks to challenge inequality and strike at the bourgeois directly really need to have a membership card for a left-wing group to be considered the revolutionary left?
The bankers are scared of members of the public with revolutionary left ideas in thier head, just maybe not the parties and groups.
Are we leaving a resource untapped here? I mean, if the bankers are frightened that these people may go for them, because they're sick of what is essentially capitalist doctorine, shouldnt they be on our side? Sometimes an enemy of an enemy is a friend.

[Robocommie]

I'm not so sure if that's accurate Kurt. Does somebody who seeks to challenge inequality and strike at the bourgeois directly really need to have a membership card for a left-wing group to be considered the revolutionary left?
The bankers are scared of members of the public with revolutionary left ideas in thier head, just maybe not the parties and groups.
Are we leaving a resource untapped here? I mean, if the bankers are frightened that these people may go for them, because they're sick of what is essentially capitalist doctorine, shouldnt they be on our side? Sometimes an enemy of an enemy is a friend.

Sometimes, but a lot of the populism in America is right-wing at the moment. Not all of it, but a lot of the folks who are getting the media attention are the kinds of people who think that Socialism and Communism are the real enemy; the ones who think Barack Obama is a Marxist. The type of people who were joining all those backwoods militias in the 90s, the types of people who sign up with the Minutemen.

Militants, but not our people.

BUT, in terms of striking while the anvil is hot, yes, this is the time to push our message to people that there IS another way.

[fabiansocialist]

The bankers are scared of members of the public with revolutionary left ideas in thier head ...

1/8 of Americans are now on food stamps. Roughly 20% of the population is unemployed. The bank bastards are afraid of a hungry, unemployed, frightened and angry mass of people who can sense dimly that they are being shafted while these bastards roll in their billions. As for the "revolutionary left" -- it is too busy parsing and arguing about what Althusser and Hegel really meant. The "revolutionary left" is irrelevant. It is like the Judean People's Front in the movie, "Life of Brian."

[Robocommie]

1/8 of Americans are now on food stamps. Roughly 20% of the population is unemployed. The bank bastards are afraid of a hungry, unemployed, frightened and angry mass of people who can sense dimly that they are being shafted while these bastards roll in their billions. As for the "revolutionary left" -- it is too busy parsing and arguing about what Althusser and Hegel really meant. The "revolutionary left" is irrelevant. It is like the Judean People's Front in the movie, "Life of Brian."

My God it is so true. We've got more factions then a Byzantine court.

[cyu]

Wait until he finds out the proles have just decided to wall off Wall Street instead. It's not like anything useful actually comes out of Wall Street - we send food and luxury goods in, they send paper and numbers on computers out.

[Axle]

If they're saying publicly that they're afraid of a populist uprising against them, then we can be sure they're getting goddamn terrified.

Good. Let the bastards sweat a few bullets like the rest of us.

I'm actually feeling a little ambivalent about this. On one hand I'm satisfied that businessmen are getting afraid of the people...on the other hand I'm furious that they have the absolute gall to try and fuck us all over and then want to protect themselves from us.

[IllicitPopsicle]

This would be mildly funny, if it weren't so fucking aggravating.

[Uncle Ho]

I don't know what they're afraid of, the most hardcore radicals in this country have roughly the same lethality as a pillow.

[The Red Next Door]

Well, that should thought about that before they rob all those people.

[RedSonRising]

I don't think they are scared of the revolutionary left, but they are scared of the working and struggling middle classes that have witnessed the lines of class struggle being drawn bolder than every before in the wake of this crisis, beyond the confusing and convoluted social layers of racial, sexist, and cultural divisions. They are exposed as the decision-making robbers of the people and have no ideological shield to run behind anymore.

[IllicitPopsicle]

I don't know what they're afraid of, the most hardcore radicals in this country have roughly the same lethality as a pillow.

Ah yes, but pillows can be used to suffocate, can they not? :ninja:

[Axle]

I don't know what they're afraid of, the most hardcore radicals in this country have roughly the same lethality as a pillow.

I don't necessarily disagree, but have a little faith.

[Robocommie]

I don't necessarily disagree, but have a little faith.

I think the thing is, even with all the discontent, right now is not the time to get a bunch of Kalashnikovs and run off into the woods to fight. We'd be swatted like flies. As bad as things are, I unfortunately believe things are going to need to get even worse before people really start to wake up.

[9]

If this is true, it has nothing to do with the "revolutionary left"; it has to do with the working class. My mother called me yesterday sobbing because my dad was laid off over a year ago and can't find any work, her job is on the line, they can barely make ends meet, and she just found out yesterday that - in spite of getting all the bills in on time, the credit card company raised her interest rate from 11% to 26%. My mother has leftist sympathies, but she is not a "revolutionary leftist" by any stretch. She said to me, "I wish somebody would just shoot all those bastards". I'd never heard her say anything like that before. Of course, she was being hyperbolic; she wasn't actually advocating violence of any sort and she made that clear.
But still, the anger was tremendous. I see this at work too, more than ever. People don't know what to do about it, but the anger is more conspicuous than I've seen it.

[Robocommie]

If this is true, it has nothing to do with the "revolutionary left"; it has to do with the working class. My mother called me yesterday sobbing because my dad was laid off over a year ago and can't find any work, her job is on the line, they can barely make ends meet, and she just found out yesterday that - in spite of getting all the bills in on time, the credit card company raised her interest rate from 11% to 26%. My mother has leftist sympathies, but she is not a "revolutionary leftist" by any stretch. She said to me, "I wish somebody would just shoot all those bastards". I'd never heard her say anything like that before. Of course, she was being hyperbolic; she wasn't actually advocating violence of any sort and she made that clear.
But still, the anger was tremendous. I see this at work too, more than ever. People don't know what to do about it, but the anger is more conspicuous than I've seen it.

This makes me wonder then, what the hell can we do about it? There must be something.

[Axle]

I think the thing is, even with all the discontent, right now is not the time to get a bunch of Kalashnikovs and run off into the woods to fight. We'd be swatted like flies. As bad as things are, I unfortunately believe things are going to need to get even worse before people really start to wake up.

Probably. America was three years into the Great Depression before people really started waking up to the realities of capitalim and began demanding something better.

Its likely that the only reason we didn't have an all out revolt in 1932 is that it was an election year and the people were angry enough to boot Hoover, but that anger hadn't gained enough momentum for them to actually rebel, and FDR and his wave of promises helped calm down Americans.

[cyu]

This makes me wonder then, what the hell can we do about it? There must be something.


Excerpts from The Take (http://everything2.com/user/gate/writeups/The%20Take):

The Take (2004)
"Jobs are coming back - jobs are being taken back."
A documentary about the occupied factories of Argentina.

Background

Menem presided over what were at first boom years. He followed the U.S. approved IMF policy recommendations - like privatization and deregulation of big business.

Eventually, half the country fell below the poverty line and the currency collapsed. As a result, the government froze all bank accounts in the country. The people rioted. Banks were attacked. And history experienced "the largest sovereign debt default in world history."

Under these circumstances, one would expect if your company went under, that was the end of the story. Not so in Argentina. That was just the beginning.

As workers gathered outside one such closed business, they were saying forget the back wages they were owed, they should just take the factory.

Zanon

Zanon was one of the first businesses to be taken over by employees. It had been democratically run for 2 years at the time of filming (2004). One worker, one vote - it was run by employee assemblies. There were 300 employees total. Everyone had equal salaries.

Zanon is now under 24 hour guard by employees armed with slingshots. Their real weapon, however, is the support of the community. Says one community member, "There are many companies that should be in the hands of the workers. But it seems that this is not politically convenient. That's the real problem."

Zanon donates tiles to hospitals and schools. Employees, with massive help from supporters in the community, have fought off 6 eviction orders carried out by police - forcing the retreat of the government.

More than 15,000 people work in occupied businesses (at the time of filming). The number of takeovers was doubling every year. They included a private school, a health clinic, a shipbuilder, an ice cream factory, and a suit factory.

Brukman

Brukman was the factory that started it all. It was taken over by its seamstresses after it was abandoned by the owners. Says one employee, "There have always been bosses and workers. But we are fighting for worker control... I don't know if I'm getting ahead of myself here, but maybe we can run the country this way."

[RadioRaheem84]

No one's gonna do that here in the US.

There isn't going to be a revolt. I would be very surprised if there was one. Most assuredly it would be right wing. Other nations haven't been as affected by the psychologically damaging propaganda like Americans have. If anything were to happen it would be ordinary citizens revolting against the perceived "Marxist state" and probably supporting some sort of military coup in order to restore "order" ala Pinochet style for a short period of time.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but we lost this one. If we were to get into the fray and start spreading our ideals then we would get hunted down like the Spartacus League did by the FreiKorps in Wiemar Germany.

[New Tet]

It certainly isn't the revolutionary left that they're afraid of though


So far, they're afraid only of a specter.

P.S.: Also, maybe this is evidence of their distrust of the people we here in Revleft love to hate: The cops.

Shit, sometimes I kill myself!

[New Tet]

No one's gonna do that here in the US.

There isn't going to be a revolt. I would be very surprised if there was one. Most assuredly it would be right wing. Other nations haven't been as affected by the psychologically damaging propaganda like Americans have. If anything were to happen it would be ordinary citizens revolting against the perceived "Marxist state" and probably supporting some sort of military coup in order to restore "order" ala Pinochet style for a short period of time.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but we lost this one. If we were to get into the fray and start spreading our ideals then we would get hunted down like the Spartacus League did by the FreiKorps in Wiemar Germany.

You doubt the possibility of revolt?

What kind of revolutionary talks like that?

Disturbing.

[New Tet]

Probably. America was three years into the Great Depression before people really started waking up to the realities of capitalim and began demanding something better.

Its likely that the only reason we didn't have an all out revolt in 1932 is that it was an election year and the people were angry enough to boot Hoover, but that anger hadn't gained enough momentum for them to actually rebel, and FDR and his wave of promises helped calm down Americans.

FDR carried out on some of his promises. Social Security, public projects that actually employed workers and a heightened expectation on the part of general population. Hope and optimism are borne out of unrealized expectation.

But I think you're correct that one thing that damaged the possibility of revolution in America was FDR's bourgeois reformism. That, and the outbreak of Fascism in Europe and [consequently] the last world war.

[jake williams]

They're not worried about the revolutionary left because the "revolutionary left", especially in the United States and Canada and to a slightly lesser degree Europe spends so little time actually in and organizing in the working class, and so much time making scathing comments about the idiocy of the "fascists".

[RadioRaheem84]

You doubt the possibility of revolt?

What kind of revolutionary talks like that?

Disturbing.

I doubt the possibility of a left wing revolt, yes.

[Crux]

I doubt the possibility of a left wing revolt, yes.
But there's already been some factory occupations in the US lately. Chicago, if memory serves.

[fabiansocialist]

People don't know what to do about it, but the anger is more conspicuous than I've seen it.

These things have to be escalated step by step. You can't run around with some kalashnikovs immediately. You have to build up to it. The first is that the language must become more violent, more confrontational. Polite discourse serves the ruling scumbags just fine. Call them scumbags, call Goldman sachs vultures and vampires, call Bernanke and Geithner pimps, call Obama a house negro (in Malcolm X's words), call specific congressmen and senators corrupt shitheads. This contempt itself leads naturally to certain kinds of civil disobedience and action which develop a momentum of their own. The peaceful demonstrations and marches become less peaceful, more confrontational. This is what makes the ruling class shit its pants. It creates a crisis of legitimacy of the state, of government. That's exactly what you want.

[RadioRaheem84]

But there's already been some factory occupations in the US lately. Chicago, if memory serves.

Haven't heard of that one. Do you mean the one in Micheal Moore's film?

[cyu]

I doubt the possibility of a left wing revolt, yes.

The thing to remember is that one of the goals of capitalist owned and controlled media is to make you think you've been defeated before you even start, so you never even try anything in the first place. Anyway, here's a sample of the Americans you don't hear about as much as Paris Hilton:

Firing The Boss: An Interview with Chicago Factory Occupation Organizer
http://towardfreedom.com/home/content/view/1506/1/

"We’re not going to let those machines from the Bronx go anywhere."
http://www.workers.org/2009/us/stella_doro_1022/

Hartmarx Workers Vote to "Sit In"
http://www.workersunitedunion.org/content/hartmarx-workers-vote-sit-save-their-jobs-tarp-recipient-wells-fargo-threatens-close-obama-s

Rochester Hickey-Freeman Workers Vote to Stage Sit-In
http://www.workersunitedunion.org/content/rochester-hickey-freeman-workers-vote-stage-sit-if-bailed-out-bank-attempts-close-company

"unions will take matters into their own hands"
http://www.zcommunications.org/znet/viewArticle/23059

Steelworkers Form Collaboration with Mondragon
http://www.dollarsandsense.org/blog/2009/10/steelworkers-form-collaboration-with.html

Worker Ownership – The Untold Stories
http://the-american-catholic.com/2009/06/25/worker-ownership-%E2%80%93-the-untold-stories/

[GatesofLenin]

Just another reason to attack the bastards. "He was going for his gun...I had no choice." This is just a taste of things to come I imagine, they're afraid and so they should be.
Big riots are a-coming for sure. How much abuse do these rich pigs think the common man will take before they have no more choice and say "F it, I got nothing to lose..."

[fabiansocialist]

Big riots are a-coming for sure. How much abuse do these rich pigs think the common man will take before they have no more choice and say "F it, I got nothing to lose..."

The rich keep advancing in their war of oppression because they have not so far encountered any line of resistance. When they do, battle will be joined. It will be similar to Iraq, where tens of thousands of resistance fighters stopped US imperialism in its tracks.

[KurtFF8]

No one's gonna do that here in the US.

There isn't going to be a revolt. I would be very surprised if there was one. Most assuredly it would be right wing. Other nations haven't been as affected by the psychologically damaging propaganda like Americans have. If anything were to happen it would be ordinary citizens revolting against the perceived "Marxist state" and probably supporting some sort of military coup in order to restore "order" ala Pinochet style for a short period of time.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but we lost this one. If we were to get into the fray and start spreading our ideals then we would get hunted down like the Spartacus League did by the FreiKorps in Wiemar Germany.


It's interesting that you brought up the FreiKorps, back in August 09, Michael Savage (who is one of the main right-wing radio shock jocks) overtly called for a FreiKorps like organization in America. He even went as far as to say that the FreiKorps themselves were necessary in Germany and they their putting down the Spartacus League was a great thing. He claimed that the only problem was that Hitler "hijacked the movement" or something along those lines. Pretty scary stuff, although he's probably one of the more fringe of the radio shock-jocks. Here's a YouTube clip with what I'm talking about

lfQSYizpSQI

I'm also not one to be too pessimistic, but the current state of things in America and even Europe don't offer much in the way of hope right now.

[Uncle Ho]

Wait, union thugs are beating up conservatives?

Where is this happening and why was I not invited?

[Bitter Ashes]

Wait, union thugs are beating up conservatives?

Where is this happening and why was I not invited?
*blinks*
Isn't it usualy the etiquette to only reffer to the enemy as thugs?

[RadioRaheem84]

It's interesting that you brought up the FreiKorps, back in August 09, Michael Savage (who is one of the main right-wing radio shock jocks) overtly called for a FreiKorps like organization in America. He even went as far as to say that the FreiKorps themselves were necessary in Germany and they their putting down the Spartacus League was a great thing. He claimed that the only problem was that Hitler "hijacked the movement" or something along those lines. Pretty scary stuff, although he's probably one of the more fringe of the radio shock-jocks. Here's a YouTube clip with what I'm talking about

lfQSYizpSQI

I'm also not one to be too pessimistic, but the current state of things in America and even Europe don't offer much in the way of hope right now.

WOW. This is something that Chomsky wrote about in Understanding Power. The right wing movement moving into a straight fascistic frenzy. I knew they would look to the Freikorps as some sort of movement to emulate. Doesn't Savage know that they're a symbol for many neo-Nazi groups out there?

[GatesofLenin]

The rich keep advancing in their war of oppression because they have not so far encountered any line of resistance. When they do, battle will be joined. It will be similar to Iraq, where tens of thousands of resistance fighters stopped US imperialism in its tracks.
Very true, history is full of examples of people being pushed to their limits and they fought back. Looks like the capitalist pigs never learn.

[Uncle Ho]

*blinks*
Isn't it usualy the etiquette to only reffer to the enemy as thugs?
I was just using Mr. Savage's own words there. I am what he would call a union thug, and I prefer the term "agitator"