Pathetically Biased Laws (Or shining beacon of capitalist progress to a free world)

[rednordman]

Im going to keep this as descrete and short as possible for obvious reasons. I would love to give you all the info but am fearfull for what could happen as a result if I was to get, well lets say, sussed.

Anyhow, here goes: Person gets into accident at work. Everyone knows that its not their fault, but a result of the environment that they are put under by the company. Person is then off for 4months recovering from leg break.

Person then rightfully tries to claim for compensation. Its a case that most people would say that they couldnt loose.

To cut a lot to get to the unbelieveable part. Person is charging X company (one of the wealthiest in UK). It is now down to that company to supply the person with the evidence. Yes, this is like accusing someone of murder, and them being allowed to dictate to the victim what evidence is allowed to be used in court.

Like you can just trust big buisness, because they are so fucking honest and perfect:rolleyes:.

As a result, all the cctv footage has been either lost, or is of so bad quality that they cannot really make anything out (even though they can pick people out clearing stealing from certain locations). Reliable witnesses such as management have all of a sudden become silenced and scarse.

Now, the case that was unloosable has been lost....

What kind of country has laws like this. Why is buisness giving all the trust, yet with the worker, they are immidietly accused of trying to cheat compensation. Like we are all just inherant scroungers.

Either way, Though I saw it coming, I still cannot believe what an injustice this is. Its more like a kangeroo court than a real one. Why couldnt the government have grown a spine that put this company in there place? (at least there could have been an independant investigation) -at least we would have had a fair trial. Im lost for words really.

[Comrade Gwydion]

I'm afraid the government has a spine: it's just a spine that wanted the company to win. Wish your collegue good luck from me.

[Guevaraist Insurgent]

he could stalk room to room with an ar15 catbine, pumping roung after round into his colleuges and co workers.

Or maybe you just shouldnt tell me every bit of shit that happens.

FIGHT CLUB MUCH:):):):)

[Holden Caulfield]

Thats nothing, an (American, not even some unimportant 'brown' person) woman was violently (anally and vaginally) gang raped by Haliburton Employees and then locked in a shipping container, and yet the company showed no compassion to her at all, trying to keep it quiet and then refusing to give her due treatment.

[ComradeMan]

I am not sure of the legality of this at all. Person X broke their leg right? So person X would have been to hospital with time and date recorded, ambulance, report etc and witnesses. The fact that company X has lost its cctv footage should not place the onus on Person X to provide more evidence. What are we supposed to do? Film ourselves having accidents just in case the cctv wasn't working that day?

I would suggest getting a decent lawyer and nailing the bar stewards.

[rednordman]

I am not sure of the legality of this at all. Person X broke their leg right? So person X would have been to hospital with time and date recorded, ambulance, report etc and witnesses. The fact that company X has lost its cctv footage should not place the onus on Person X to provide more evidence. What are we supposed to do? Film ourselves having accidents just in case the cctv wasn't working that day?

I would suggest getting a decent lawyer and nailing the bar stewards.Thats the oddest bit though, it is the barrister that has asked person X to drop their case, as they do not believe that they will be successful.

The worst part is that at the time, someone took photos for evidence. Now the photos have disappeared, and the person even denys ever taking them. Real sealer is that there has been numorous accidents with the equiptment in question. And some people with lesser injuries have actually successfully claimed compensation. Funiest thing was though, that it only took about a couple of days for the same unfixed equiptment on the floor waiting to get used.

I accused the government of being spinless because one would believe that they should send in an independant investigation. In the very least, they should have the monopoly of the cctv footage. What is technically happening is that the company is picking and choosing what footage they allow the victim to use against them. Low and behold its all really fuzzy, distant and inconclusive. All the clear stuff just gets left out.

[rednordman]

Thats nothing, an (American, not even some unimportant 'brown' person) woman was violently (anally and vaginally) gang raped by Haliburton Employees and then locked in a shipping container, and yet the company showed no compassion to her at all, trying to keep it quiet and then refusing to give her due treatment.Only in America. That really is shocking. Did this get much attention in the media? If it didnt than they are being irresponsable.

[Holden Caulfield]

Only in America. That really is shocking. Did this get much attention in the media? If it didnt than they are being irresponsable.

Not a mention in the UK i only found out over revleft.
dunno what happened in the land of the free

[Patchd]

I am not sure of the legality of this at all. Person X broke their leg right? So person X would have been to hospital with time and date recorded, ambulance, report etc and witnesses. The fact that company X has lost its cctv footage should not place the onus on Person X to provide more evidence. What are we supposed to do? Film ourselves having accidents just in case the cctv wasn't working that day?

I would suggest getting a decent lawyer and nailing the bar stewards.
The company would probably argue for proof that it was done at work and not outside.

[Decommissioner]

Only in America. That really is shocking. Did this get much attention in the media? If it didnt than they are being irresponsable.

It got a fair amount of attention in the media, mainly because the GOP ended up defending haliburton and not the woman!

http :// www .republicansforrape. org/

without the spaces of course, I don't have enough posts to post a proper link.

[ComradeMan]

Thats the oddest bit though, it is the barrister that has asked person X to drop their case, as they do not believe that they will be successful.

The worst part is that at the time, someone took photos for evidence. Now the photos have disappeared, and the person even denys ever taking them. Real sealer is that there has been numorous accidents with the equiptment in question. And some people with lesser injuries have actually successfully claimed compensation. Funiest thing was though, that it only took about a couple of days for the same unfixed equiptment on the floor waiting to get used.

I accused the government of being spinless because one would believe that they should send in an independant investigation. In the very least, they should have the monopoly of the cctv footage. What is technically happening is that the company is picking and choosing what footage they allow the victim to use against them. Low and behold its all really fuzzy, distant and inconclusive. All the clear stuff just gets left out.


Is there no ambulance report? Hospital report? Times and dates? If this is how you say, and I do not doubt you for one moment, then it really does stink to high heaven.

If witnesses suddenly "forget" it sounds ominous. If a barrister (for a civil case???) suggests dropping it then it doesn't sound good.

What I would do here, and you have to be careful with this because of the legal repercussions, is get the papers involved, get the news on it! Is their no Union to turn to either?

Good luck to your friend.

[rednordman]

Is there no ambulance report? Hospital report? Times and dates?Thank you for reply and your condolences will be sent. I actually forgot about that particular detail. Stange as it was a major detail. The person in question broke their leg in 3 places as result, yet ended up having to ring their parents to take them to the hospital, as there where (allegally) no managers who could take them.

The real shocking thing was that the management that was there tried to push a statement out of them for the 30mins that it took for their parent to get to them - while they where in agony.

Then to add insult to injury, they rung them up the next day while the victim was drugged up after their operation, so it was very easy to try and put words in their mouth.

To say it stinks in an understatement - yet at the same time, is a concrete sign of the times of the so called victory for western liberal capitalism. Pretty unbelievable.

I think that this proves that despite all of the pathetic triumpialism after the cold war, capitalist agencies have proven themselves to be nearly as corrupt and oppressive as any of the so called totalitarian ideologies of the last 100 years-how on earth any capitalist defend this type of bizarre injustice. Yet according to some idiot philosopher who still even after getting refute alot of times, gets respected as outlining the end of history and the victory of capitalist western liberal democracies and the last man...

@holden: I think that anyone anywhere, would be appauled by that. What is striking is how the company seems to get protection by the media, as if the media is doing something detremential to society if that company was to get exposed. The time really has come where companies are seen as more important that human wellbeing.

If you where to tell any of this to a capitalist supporter, they would probably laugh at us, as if there is no way in which anyone could not recieve real justice in a capitalist democracy, but time and time again, I see things getting missed out and shortcuts getting made, regardless of safetly just to save money. And the people who do this are seen as heros, for it because of saving money. 1 person for 3 jobs and all that shit. No wonder there is high unemployment at the moment, regardless of recession.

[ComradeMan]

Thank you for reply and your condolences will be sent. I actually forgot about that particular detail. Stange as it was a major detail. The person in question broke their leg in 3 places as result, yet ended up having to ring their parents to take them to the hospital, as there where (allegally) no managers who could take them.

Right- can the call be traced- was it with a cellphone? GPS? Get the call time, date and location traced.

Why no ambulance? By the way, if the company admits that there were no managers to take the person to hospital then they may already be in violation- was this person given first aid? Companies must have a first-aider by law- perhaps something to exploit here.

The real shocking thing was that the management that was there tried to push a statement out of them for the 30mins that it took for their parent to get to them - while they where in agony.

See point above. Some kind of statement "extracted" from someone in severe shock, delirium and physical pain is not worth the paper it's written on and the very fact that they tried paints them in a bad light.

Then to add insult to injury, they rung them up the next day while the victim was drugged up after their operation, so it was very easy to try and put words in their mouth.

See point above. No judge would accept that testimony- it's not a valid statement. Again, times, calls, records and dates. The fact the call was made is dubious- can it be traced?

To say it stinks in an understatement - yet at the same time, is a concrete sign of the times of the so called victory for western liberal capitalism. Pretty unbelievable.

Sigh.... I am with you on this one and agree with your other points.

Take my advice, explore every avenue and go to the papers...

[rednordman]

Thank you for reply and your condolences will be sent. I actually forgot about that particular detail. Stange as it was a major detail. The person in question broke their leg in 3 places as result, yet ended up having to ring their parents to take them to the hospital, as there where (allegally) no managers who could take them.

Right- can the call be traced- was it with a cellphone? GPS? Get the call time, date and location traced.

Why no ambulance? By the way, if the company admits that there were no managers to take the person to hospital then they may already be in violation- was this person given first aid? Companies must have a first-aider by law- perhaps something to exploit here.

The real shocking thing was that the management that was there tried to push a statement out of them for the 30mins that it took for their parent to get to them - while they where in agony.

See point above. Some kind of statement "extracted" from someone in severe shock, delirium and physical pain is not worth the paper it's written on and the very fact that they tried paints them in a bad light.

Then to add insult to injury, they rung them up the next day while the victim was drugged up after their operation, so it was very easy to try and put words in their mouth.

See point above. No judge would accept that testimony- it's not a valid statement. Again, times, calls, records and dates. The fact the call was made is dubious- can it be traced?

To say it stinks in an understatement - yet at the same time, is a concrete sign of the times of the so called victory for western liberal capitalism. Pretty unbelievable.

Sigh.... I am with you on this one and agree with your other points.

Take my advice, explore every avenue and go to the papers...Thanks for advice. Its all been a bit much TBH. We all saw it coming, but everyone of us, knew the deal. That is why I gave it the old sign of the times rant in my former post. Its like everyone turns a blind eye, just because its capitalism.

Thing is about the tracing calls is that you would think this one of the first things that the lawyer would have got on to them about.

To have lost the case is a travesty of justice, but for the barrister to turn around and say that it isnt worth bothering, takes all cakes avaliable. Like you would deliberatley break your leg to get compensation. Like most capitalists, they seem to miss out the fact that there is such a thing as pain. And thats on all levels.

[brigadista]

Thats the oddest bit though, it is the barrister that has asked person X to drop their case, as they do not believe that they will be successful.

The worst part is that at the time, someone took photos for evidence. Now the photos have disappeared, and the person even denys ever taking them. Real sealer is that there has been numorous accidents with the equiptment in question. And some people with lesser injuries have actually successfully claimed compensation. Funiest thing was though, that it only took about a couple of days for the same unfixed equiptment on the floor waiting to get used.

I accused the government of being spinless because one would believe that they should send in an independant investigation. In the very least, they should have the monopoly of the cctv footage. What is technically happening is that the company is picking and choosing what footage they allow the victim to use against them. Low and behold its all really fuzzy, distant and inconclusive. All the clear stuff just gets left out.


Is there an acccident book with similar types of accidents recorded?

They should get a second opinion on the merits..

[Patchd]

All I can say is to try and convince your friend to join a union, for her own interests, if her bosses ever try and fuck her over again. Keep a log book of conversations with her managers (if it is something else not work-related, or if it is work-related but involved the manager being bullyish/abusive). If she does join a union, or if she is in one, then it would be a good idea to raise this up with her union, if she hasn't done so already, if she has what was the response she got?

You're in the UK right? Visit your local citizens' advice bureau, you might have to wait for a while and the advice might not be too helpful, but it's free legal advice which is better than nothing.
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/

[ComradeMan]

Is there an acccident book with similar types of accidents recorded?

They should get a second opinion on the merits..

Exactly my point... is this like some text book "how not to handle accidents at work" guide...! Poor fellow with a blimmin' nasty injury too.

[rednordman]

Again thank you very much for your interest. All I am going to say here is that technically all your advice should work, as only common sense dictates that the person did not do this on purpose (pain, injury recovery + loosing 4months pay: You do not just sacrifice all that i hope of a claim do you?).

The problem it seems is that automatically, this is what the authorites have assumed. Despite running in the harsh face of obvious common sense.

Sadly after talking to the person today about it and mentioning some of your advice, they have all but given up. I dont know, mabey they are shy to approach people for witness statements.

The one thing that they did say as a parting shot was that if you are to have an accident at this place, make sure you have your mobile phone on you, so you can take photos yourself of the injury (while you are in agony obviously). That would be the only was to convince the courts.

The largest irony to that is however, that the company could techically sack you because it is against their rules to have a mobile phone in the warehouse.

I swear, we really are living in capitalist dictatorships. The only differance compared to other types of dictatorships is that their is no 'leader'. The leader is simply the currency (or capital) itself.

[ComradeMan]

Again thank you very much for your interest. All I am going to say here is that technically all your advice should work, as only common sense dictates that the person did not do this on purpose (pain, injury recovery + loosing 4months pay: You do not just sacrifice all that i hope of a claim do you?).

The problem it seems is that automatically, this is what the authorites have assumed. Despite running in the harsh face of obvious common sense.

Sadly after talking to the person today about it and mentioning some of your advice, they have all but given up. I dont know, mabey they are shy to approach people for witness statements.

The one thing that they did say as a parting shot was that if you are to have an accident at this place, make sure you have your mobile phone on you, so you can take photos yourself of the injury (while you are in agony obviously). That would be the only was to convince the courts.

The largest irony to that is however, that the company could techically sack you because it is against their rules to have a mobile phone in the warehouse.

I swear, we really are living in capitalist dictatorships. The only differance compared to other types of dictatorships is that their is no 'leader'. The leader is simply the currency (or capital) itself.


I would not even call this good capitalism... (with irony), damn it! It's in the twisted interest of a slave owner that the slaves are fit to work...!!!!

Utter scandal!!! Appalled!

[Patchd]

For everyone else, including your friend if he/she is injured at work again, just remember that you have the right to stop work if you are injured there, a number of countries will have a legislation ensuring the right of a worker to stop working in environments they deem unsafe, or not matching environmental or safety standards.

Again, keeping a log book of accidents and work related matters can be extremely useful. After being injured at work (if it wasn't the fault of yourself, but of employer disregard for safety/company mismanagement), if you can't take a photo of your injury, leave work and do it. If you go to hospital or is taken there, ask for someone to take a photo of your injury, they will have cameras there and may be willing to help you out.