Free Tuition Student Movement, Canada

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

Feel free to move this if I'm not in the appropriate section.

***

Tuition rates are extremely high in British Columbia along with the rest of Canada. As a result, the President of UBC's Student Society, the AMS, sent a letter to the United Nations expressing the governments violation of an agreement it made with the United Nations in 1976. The article calls for the government to make good on their promise to provide free and accessible higher education to all citizens of Canada.

This has been met with some outrage for a failure to get the letter approved by a committee, degrading the definition of human rights (as if they exist), and "wasting the UN's time" (as if they are busy). Many students are attempting to have the President impeached along with other political members associated with the action. Normally, I'm a big fan of impeaching political figures for no reason at all. This is more of a "in solidarity" type support. The President has little power anyway. The bigger issue is achieving accessibility in the education system.

The letter written can be found here:

http://www.pivotlegal.com/files/uploads/09-11-25_AMS_Complaint.pdf

For those who don't know, the Pivot Legal society is a legal society known for working to help the poorest and most disenfranchised individuals in Vancouver's Downtown East Side. You can check out

The link below is for UBC students to provide their opinions on whether the President should be impeached for his dastardly actions. If you happen to be a UBC student (or want to express your opinion anyway), check it out:

http://ow.ly/GkdW

How dare he advocate free post-secondary education for everyone in Canada? The nerve!

The facebook group "We oppose the AMS impeachment of Blake Frederick and Tim Chu" could also use some members for solidarity. See the following link:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/group.php?gid=229568708776&ref=mf

Anyway, I know this issue has some somewhat "reformist" qualities to it. It's also not the most important issue facing society. However, that doesn't take away the importance of education for achieving a more egalitarian society. Or in real terms, simply a better society for people living in Canada.

[blake 3:17]

Is it really calling for free tuition? When I was involved with the Candian Federation of Students, I always thought we should have been calling for no fees rather than a freeze. Putting people into massive debt just as they enter adulthood?

Those capitalists aren't so stupid after all...

[GatesofLenin]

Education should be a right, not a privilege! I'm Canadian and I'm proud to say that I finished my high school education but could not afford higher education. $20000 a year for school, good luck. I tried the loan way but was refused because I had no credit history. Credit history, nice way to control people, greedy f'in banking pigs!

[vivapalestina]

Hey just wanted to say, recently finished off a similar battle in Ireland. was a member of Free Education for Everyone, that spanned across several different campuses, organizing occupations, shut-downs and protests in several different areas. We have now evolved from that and are now Students in Solidarity. i am, and am sure the other members are, in full support of your campaign.

[genstrike]

Is it really calling for free tuition? When I was involved with the Candian Federation of Students, I always thought we should have been calling for no fees rather than a freeze. Putting people into massive debt just as they enter adulthood?

Those capitalists aren't so stupid after all...

I think Frederick and Chu were calling for free tuition by highlighting Canada's failure to implement it in accordance with UN resolutions.

That said, I think a lot of individual CFSers support free tuition, but a good chunk of the student union bureaucracy feels that standing up for free tuition is "too radical" and would "turn people off" so usually just fights for a freeze or modest reductions (or uses intentionally unclear messaging like "Drop Fees" - do we want them reduced, or completely "dropped"). "Too radical", incidentally, is also the reason why I'm not a student union official.

[jake williams]

That said, I think a lot of individual CFSers support free tuition, but a good chunk of the student union bureaucracy feels that standing up for free tuition is "too radical" and would "turn people off" so usually just fights for a freeze or modest reductions (or uses intentionally unclear messaging like "Drop Fees" - do we want them reduced, or completely "dropped"). "Too radical", incidentally, is also the reason why I'm not a student union official.
To only a very limited extent. The CFS has considerably progressed over the last few years when it comes to tuition. It would be going a lot further too if it wasn't presently fighting for its existence against a bunch of Tory youth upset about student money funding sexual assault centres, and their little battalion of ultraleftists.

[Die Neue Zeit]

"Free tuition" generally benefits petit-bourgeois and bourgeois elements.

Here's a better suggestion:

http://www.revleft.com/vb/reinventing-education-replace-t125147/index.html

"Today's calls on the left re. education are usually for no tuitions for higher education. However, when considering the oligopolies or monopolies of professional organizations, should tuitions be replaced altogether with training income for employment careers not unlike national pension benefits or unemployment insurance?"

[blake 3:17]

That said, I think a lot of individual CFSers support free tuition, but a good chunk of the student union bureaucracy feels that standing up for free tuition is "too radical" and would "turn people off" so usually just fights for a freeze or modest reductions (or uses intentionally unclear messaging like "Drop Fees" - do we want them reduced, or completely "dropped"). "Too radical", incidentally, is also the reason why I'm not a student union official.

I know a few who've made it out the other side with their principles intact but it is rare.

One of the best criticisms I've heard of the CFS, is that while a membership organization with a fairly left leadership, it doesn't have regular local meetings. During particular campaigns there may be broader participation but isn't necessarily all that accountible.


"Free tuition" generally benefits petit-bourgeois and bourgeois elements. I'm going to call you on this. How do they do this? I can think of examples, but overall? The deregulation and hyperinflation of professional programs has only served to make them more bourgeois -- maybe a bit less exclusive in terms of skin colour and gender, but it's $$$$$. People studying law or medicine with the best on intentions are forced by market relations to follow the money.


Today's calls on the left re. education are usually for no tuitions for higher education. However, when considering the oligopolies or monopolies of professional organizations, should tuitions be replaced altogether with training income for employment careers not unlike national pension benefits or unemployment insurance?

There absolutely needs to decent apprenticeships and supplemented training programs. I clicked the link and did a quick scan -- one of the problems of so much Post Secondary and Adult Ed is that is geared so closely to specific jobs or jobs skills. Other intellectual pursuits are made unaffordable.

[genstrike]

"Free tuition" generally benefits petit-bourgeois and bourgeois elements.

I don't know, that sounds almost like the Rae Report bullshit which has been completely discredited, given that funding of post-secondary education is a net transfer of wealth downwards in a country like Canada with a moderately progressive tax system.


I know a few who've made it out the other side with their principles intact but it is rare.

I don't know, I've seen a lot of people go in and out of student union offices, and I think the problem is not that they change their minds on their principles, but that they for whatever reason don't or can't put their principles into practice. If I sat down for beers with my student union executive and prodded them a little, most or all of them would say they believe in free tuition, ending the war, opposing the occupation of Palestine, etc. But to get them to say that publicly in front of an audience is something else.


One of the best criticisms I've heard of the CFS, is that while a membership organization with a fairly left leadership, it doesn't have regular local meetings. During particular campaigns there may be broader participation but isn't necessarily all that accountible.

Well, the CFS and local student unions are generally not structured in a way conducive to building a grassroots movement, so they become focused on filling out bureaucratic structures with warm, moderately progressive or politically pliable bodies. Once in a while participation is a bit broader, but it is still more or less on the terms of the executives (which is generally within social democratic orthodoxy and not about radical change) and not really much of a rank and file initiative because the direction comes from above.

They also get caught up in obsessing over faction fights between them and the right, and tend to feel under siege by the right and don't want to do anything which might piss them off. And, there's some high school bullshit politics mixed in too.

[Die Neue Zeit]

I don't know, that sounds almost like the Rae Report bullshit which has been completely discredited, given that funding of post-secondary education is a net transfer of wealth downwards in a country like Canada with a moderately progressive tax system.

I was in a discussion with a RevLeft comrade on his experience with "no tuition" campaigns on his campus, as well as on my proposal above. Comrade, could you please at least read the link on training income?

[genstrike]

I was in a discussion with a RevLeft comrade on his experience with "no tuition" campaigns on his campus, as well as on my proposal above. Comrade, could you please at least read the link on training income?

I looked it over, and I still don't see how eliminating tuition "benefits bourgeois and petit-bourgeois elements". From what I've seen on campus (40% tuition increases in my faculty, and so many international student increases that I've lost count at around 200%), this increased tuition hurts working class students in many ways, and has changed the character of the university to a more elitist one.

https://www.policyalternatives.ca/publications/monitor/june-2007-debunking-neoliberal-education-myth

As for a "training income", that is based on the assumption that education should not be an intellectually liberating experience, but rather little more than an exercise in job training to mold people to become cogs in the machine.

[Die Neue Zeit]

Bourgeois students can study repeatedly for free, while proletarian students cannot. As for your last remark, what are your thoughts on the Communist Manifesto's linking of education to productive work?

[genstrike]

Bourgeois students can study repeatedly for free, while proletarian students cannot. As for your last remark, what are your thoughts on the Communist Manifesto's linking of education to productive work?

I've already pointed out that subsidizing post-secondary education is a net transfer of wealth downwards, not upwards, so it in fact helps the working class as a whole even before we start counting the benefits of education to all sectors of society.

Also, without free education, Bourgeois students might be able to study once or twice, while proletarian students don't have a chanche to study at all. With free education, more proletarian students would be able to study at least once, and even more if some sort of living allowance is provided. How exactly does keeping them out because they can't afford to pay what is essentially a big regressive tax benefit proletarian students?

Regarding the Communist Manifesto, those are six words written over a century ago, and the Manifesto itself isn't a bible. I don't think education should be all about making skilled widget-makers (whether capitalist or red), education should be an intellectually liberating experience, where people can explore ideas and concepts and gain an understanding of how the world works. Of course, education would have to be completely different, and so would society in order to have this kind of education system. I think we definitely have the resources to provide this kind of education to everyone because we're already ridiculously overproducing crap and our economies are way more developed than when those six words were written.

What would your plan be, some sort of indentured servitude once people have learned widget machining skills? I think they have something like that already, it's called the military.

Incidentally, about ten words before that it says "Free education for all children in public schools" - and I don't think high school cuts it anymore given economic realities these days.

[bricolage]

This training income idea, at first glance, just seems to be suggesting training kids from poor families to do jobs 'suited for them' all the while leaving children of wealthier families to carry on studying philosophy and history, I mean who need to learn about Kant when you are heading for the mines anyway, come to think of it why engage in any intellectual activity at all? :rolleyes:

[Die Neue Zeit]

I've already pointed out that subsidizing post-secondary education is a net transfer of wealth downwards, not upwards, so it in fact helps the working class as a whole even before we start counting the benefits of education to all sectors of society.

But "free tuition" does not go against the main critique of egalitarianism on wages, about more educated folks "giving time" beforehand (not to mention shitloads of $$$ for studies like medicine) to study. "Training income" - which assumes a no-tuition scenario and builds from there - does.


Also, without free education, Bourgeois students might be able to study once or twice, while proletarian students don't have a chanche to study at all.

[...]

What would your plan be, some sort of indentured servitude once people have learned widget machining skills? I think they have something like that already, it's called the military.

"Training income," which is NOT debt, goes beyond free education ("no tuition"), if you recall. If you read further down the thread, one way of providing this "training income" is to have "a scheme similar to unemployment insurance contributions required of employers. The bigger pool formed from these contributions would be the central source of training income disbursements."

The studies involved here would include (among many others): skilled trades, information technology, biotechnology, forensic investigation, health sciences (doctoral medicine and also nurse-level specializations), engineering, and accounting (see, I included this last one even if I never benefitted from this proposed scheme ;) ).

The posts above wrongfully suggest that "training income" would apply to skilled trades only. :(

[blake 3:17]

I dunno JR, you make a step in the right direction and then kind of blow it.

The rapid expansion of tuition fees in Canada has had a very very conservatizing effect on students, young people, and workers on whole.

I also don't see why training income should be counterposed to free tuition. I teased a CFS friend about their button "Education Not Occupation" -- what's wrong with an occupation? Within certain trades the apprenticeship system kicks in, which is largely union managed, but there are no guarantees around income.


The studies involved here would include (among many others): skilled trades, information technology, biotechnology, forensic investigation, health sciences (doctoral medicine and also nurse-level specializations), engineering, and accounting (see, I included this last one even if I never benefitted from this proposed scheme).

What about education and social services?

[Die Neue Zeit]

"Training income" assumes a no-tuition scenario and then builds from there. I pose this as an immediate, progressive alternative to merely stopping at no-tuition.


What about education and social services?

They're included in the training income program, too (if you mean "education" to mean elementary school teaching, high school teaching, and many but not all post-secondary teaching). :)