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CELMX
28th November 2009, 17:21
http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989


At the Children's Research Lab at the University of Texas, a database is kept on thousands of families in the Austin area who have volunteered to be available for scholarly research. In 2006 Birgitte Vittrup recruited from the database about a hundred families, all of whom were Caucasian with a child 5 to 7 years old.

The goal of Vittrup's study was to learn if typical children's videos with multicultural storylines have any beneficial effect on children's racial attitudes. Her first step was to give the children a Racial Attitude Measure, which asked such questions as:
How many White people are nice?
(Almost all) (A lot) (Some) (Not many) (None)
How many Black people are nice?
(Almost all) (A lot) (Some) (Not many) (None)
During the test, the descriptive adjective "nice" was replaced with more than 20 other adjectives, like "dishonest," "pretty," "curious," and "snobby."
Vittrup sent a third of the families home with multiculturally themed videos for a week, such as an episode of Sesame Street in which characters visit an African-American family's home, and an episode of Little Bill, where the entire neighborhood comes together to clean the local park.
In truth, Vittrup didn't expect that children's racial attitudes would change very much just from watching these videos. Prior research had shown that multicultural curricula in schools have far less impact than we intend them to—largely because the implicit message "We're all friends" is too vague for young children to understand that it refers to skin color.
Yet Vittrup figured explicit conversations with parents could change that. So a second group of families got the videos, and Vittrup told these parents to use them as the jumping-off point for a discussion about interracial friendship. She provided a checklist of points to make, echoing the shows' themes. "I really believed it was going to work," Vittrup recalls.
The last third were also given the checklist of topics, but no videos. These parents were to discuss racial equality on their own, every night for five nights.
At this point, something interesting happened. Five families in the last group abruptly quit the study. Two directly told Vittrup, "We don't want to have these conversations with our child. We don't want to point out skin color."
Vittrup was taken aback—these families volunteered knowing full well it was a study of children's racial attitudes. Yet once they were aware that the study required talking openly about race, they started dropping out.
It was no surprise that in a liberal city like Austin, every parent was a welcoming multiculturalist, embracing diversity. But according to Vittrup's entry surveys, hardly any of these white parents had ever talked to their children directly about race. They might have asserted vague principles—like "Everybody's equal" or "God made all of us" or "Under the skin, we're all the same"—but they'd almost never called attention to racial differences.
They wanted their children to grow up colorblind. But Vittrup's first test of the kids revealed they weren't colorblind at all. Asked how many white people are mean, these children commonly answered, "Almost none." Asked how many blacks are mean, many answered, "Some," or "A lot." Even kids who attended diverse schools answered the questions this way.
More disturbing, Vittrup also asked all the kids a very blunt question: "Do your parents like black people?" Fourteen percent said outright, "No, my parents don't like black people"; 38 percent of the kids answered, "I don't know." In this supposed race-free vacuum being created by parents, kids were left to improvise their own conclusions—many of which would be abhorrent to their parents.
Vittrup hoped the families she'd instructed to talk about race would follow through. After watching the videos, the families returned to the Children's Research Lab for retesting. To Vittrup's complete surprise, the three groups of children were statistically the same—none, as a group, had budged very much in their racial attitudes. At first glance, the study was a failure.
Combing through the parents' study diaries, Vittrup realized why. Diary after diary revealed that the parents barely mentioned the checklist items. Many just couldn't talk about race, and they quickly reverted to the vague "Everybody's equal" phrasing.
Of all those Vittrup told to talk openly about interracial friendship, only six families managed to actually do so. And, for all six, their children dramatically improved their racial attitudes in a single week. Talking about race was clearly key. Reflecting later about the study, Vittrup said, "A lot of parents came to me afterwards and admitted they just didn't know what to say to their kids, and they didn't want the wrong thing coming out of the mouth of their kids."
We all want our children to be unintimidated by differences and have the social skills necessary for a diverse world. The question is, do we make it worse, or do we make it better, by calling attention to race?
The election of President Barack Obama marked the beginning of a new era in race relations in the United States—but it didn't resolve the question as to what we should tell children about race. Many parents have explicitly pointed out Obama's brown skin to their young children, to reinforce the message that anyone can rise to become a leader, and anyone—regardless of skin color—can be a friend, be loved, and be admired.
Others think it's better to say nothing at all about the president's race or ethnicity—because saying something about it unavoidably teaches a child a racial construct. They worry that even a positive statement ("It's wonderful that a black person can be president") still encourages a child to see divisions within society. For the early formative years, at least, they believe we should let children know a time when skin color does not matter.
What parents say depends heavily on their own race: a 2007 study in the Journal of Marriage and Family found that out of 17,000 families with kindergartners, nonwhite parents are about three times more likely to discuss race than white parents; 75 percent of the latter never, or almost never, talk about race.
In our new book, NurtureShock, we argue that many modern strategies for nurturing children are backfiring—because key twists in the science have been overlooked. Small corrections in our thinking today could alter the character of society long term, one future citizen at a time. The way white families introduce the concept of race to their children is a prime example.
For decades, it was assumed that children see race only when society points it out to them. However, child-development researchers have increasingly begun to question that presumption. They argue that children see racial differences as much as they see the difference between pink and blue—but we tell kids that "pink" means for girls and "blue" is for boys. "White" and "black" are mysteries we leave them to figure out on their own.
It takes remarkably little for children to develop in-group preferences. Vittrup's mentor at the University of Texas, Rebecca Bigler, ran an experiment in three preschool classrooms, where 4- and 5-year-olds were lined up and given T shirts. Half the kids were randomly given blue T shirts, half red. The children wore the shirts for three weeks. During that time, the teachers never mentioned their colors and never grouped the kids by shirt color.
The kids didn't segregate in their behavior. They played with each other freely at recess. But when asked which color team was better to belong to, or which team might win a race, they chose their own color. They believed they were smarter than the other color. "The Reds never showed hatred for Blues," Bigler observed. "It was more like, 'Blues are fine, but not as good as us.' " When Reds were asked how many Reds were nice, they'd answer, "All of us." Asked how many Blues were nice, they'd answer, "Some." Some of the Blues were mean, and some were dumb—but not the Reds.
Bigler's experiment seems to show how children will use whatever you give them to create divisions—seeming to confirm that race becomes an issue only if we make it an issue. So why does Bigler think it's important to talk to children about race as early as the age of 3?
Her reasoning is that kids are developmentally prone to in-group favoritism; they're going to form these preferences on their own. Children naturally try to categorize everything, and the attribute they rely on is that which is the most clearly visible.
We might imagine we're creating color-blind environments for children, but differences in skin color or hair or weight are like differences in gender—they're plainly visible. Even if no teacher or parent mentions race, kids will use skin color on their own, the same way they use T-shirt colors. Bigler contends that children extend their shared appearances much further—believing that those who look similar to them enjoy the same things they do. Anything a child doesn't like thus belongs to those who look the least similar to him. The spontaneous tendency to assume your group shares characteristics—such as niceness, or smarts—is called essentialism.
Within the past decade or so, developmental psychologists have begun a handful of longitudinal studies to determine exactly when children develop bias. Phyllis Katz, then a professor at the University of Colorado, led one such study—following 100 black children and 100 white children for their first six years. She tested these children and their parents nine times during those six years, with the first test at 6 months old.
How do researchers test a 6-month-old? They show babies photographs of faces. Katz found that babies will stare significantly longer at photographs of faces that are a different race from their parents, indicating they find the face out of the ordinary. Race itself has no ethnic meaning per se—but children's brains are noticing skin-color differences and trying to understand their meaning.
When the kids turned 3, Katz showed them photographs of other children and asked them to choose whom they'd like to have as friends. Of the white children, 86 percent picked children of their own race. When the kids were 5 and 6, Katz gave these children a small deck of cards, with drawings of people on them. Katz told the children to sort the cards into two piles any way they wanted. Only 16 percent of the kids used gender to split the piles. But 68 percent of the kids used race to split the cards, without any prompting. In reporting her findings, Katz concluded: "I think it is fair to say that at no point in the study did the children exhibit the Rousseau type of color-blindness that many adults expect."
The point Katz emphasizes is that this period of our children's lives, when we imagine it's most important to not talk about race, is the very developmental period when children's minds are forming their first conclusions about race.
Several studies point to the possibility of developmental windows—stages when children's attitudes might be most amenable to change. In one experiment, children were put in cross-race study groups, and then were observed on the playground to see if the interracial classroom time led to interracial play at recess. The researchers found mixed study groups worked wonders with the first-grade children, but it made no difference with third graders. It's possible that by third grade, when parents usually recognize it's safe to start talking a little about race, the developmental window has already closed.
The other deeply held assumption modern parents have is what Ashley and I have come to call the Diverse Environment Theory. If you raise a child with a fair amount of exposure to people of other races and cultures, the environment becomes the message. Because both of us attended integrated schools in the 1970s—Ashley in San Diego and, in my case, Seattle—we had always accepted this theory's tenets: diversity breeds tolerance, and talking about race was, in and of itself, a diffuse kind of racism.
But my wife and I saw this differently in the years after our son, Luke, was born. When he was 4 months old, Luke began attending a preschool located in San Francisco's Fillmore/Western Addition neighborhood. One of the many benefits of the school was its great racial diversity. For years our son never once mentioned the color of anyone's skin. We never once mentioned skin color, either. We thought it was working perfectly.
Then came Martin Luther King Jr. Day at school, two months before his fifth birthday. Luke walked out of preschool that Friday before the weekend and started pointing at everyone, proudly announcing, "That guy comes from Africa. And she comes from Africa, too!" It was embarrassing how loudly he did this. "People with brown skin are from Africa," he'd repeat. He had not been taught the names for races—he had not heard the term "black" and he called us "people with pinkish-whitish skin." He named every kid in his schoolroom with brown skin, which was about half his class.
My son's eagerness was revealing. It was obvious this was something he'd been wondering about for a while. He was relieved to have been finally given the key. Skin color was a sign of ancestral roots.
Over the next year, we started to overhear one of his white friends talking about the color of their skin. They still didn't know what to call their skin, so they used the phrase "skin like ours." And this notion of ours versus theirs started to take on a meaning of its own. As these kids searched for their identities, skin color had become salient.
Soon, I overheard this particular white boy telling my son, "Parents don't like us to talk about our skin, so don't let them hear you."
As a parent, I dealt with these moments explicitly, telling my son it was wrong to choose anyone as his friend, or his "favorite," on the basis of skin color. We pointed out how certain friends wouldn't be in our lives if we picked friends for their color. Over time he not only accepted but embraced this lesson. Now he talks openly about equality and the wrongfulness of discrimination.
Not knowing then what I do now, I had a hard time understanding my son's initial impulses. Katz's work helped me to realize that Luke was never actually colorblind. He didn't talk about race in his first five years because our silence had unwittingly communicated that race was something he could not ask about.
The Diverse Environment Theory is the core principle behind school desegregation today. Like most people, I assumed that after 30 years of desegregation, it would have a long track record of scientific research proving that the Diverse Environment Theory works. Then Ashley and I began talking to the scholars who've compiled that very research.
In the summer of 2007, led by the Civil Rights Project, a dozen scholars wrote an amicus brief to the U.S. Supreme Court supporting school desegregation in Louisville, Ky., and Seattle. By the time the brief reached the court, 553 scientists had signed on in support. However, as much as the scientists all supported active desegregation, the brief is surprisingly circumspect in its advocacy: the benefits of desegregation are qualified with words like "may lead" and "can improve." "Mere school integration is not a panacea," the brief warns.
UT's Bigler was one of the scholars heavily involved in the process of its creation. Bigler is an adamant proponent of desegregation in schools on moral grounds. "It's an enormous step backward to increase social segregation," she says. However, she also admitted that "in the end, I was disappointed with the amount of evidence social psychology could muster [to support it]. Going to integrated schools gives you just as many chances to learn stereotypes as to unlearn them."
The unfortunate twist of diverse schools is that they don't necessarily lead to more cross-race relationships. Often it's the opposite. Duke University's James Moody—an expert on how adolescents form and maintain social networks—analyzed data on more than 90,000 teenagers at 112 different schools from every region of the country. The students had been asked to name their five best male friends and their five best female friends. Moody matched the ethnicity of the student with the race of each named friend, then compared the number of each student's cross-racial friendships with the school's overall diversity.
Moody found that the more diverse the school, the more the kids self-segregate by race and ethnicity within the school, and thus the likelihood that any two kids of different races have a friendship goes down.
Moody included statistical controls for activities, sports, academic tracking, and other school-structural conditions that tend to desegregate (or segregate) students within the school. The rule still holds true: more diversity translates into more division among students. Those increased opportunities to interact are also, effectively, increased opportunities to reject each other. And that is what's happening.
As a result, junior-high and high-school children in diverse schools experience two completely contrasting social cues on a daily basis. The first cue is inspiring—that many students have a friend of another race. The second cue is tragic—that far more kids just like to hang with their own. It's this second dynamic that becomes more and more visible as overall school diversity goes up. As a child circulates through school, she sees more groups that her race disqualifies her from, more lunchroom tables she can't sit at, and more implicit lines that are taboo to cross. This is unmissable even if she, personally, has friends of other races. "Even in multiracial schools, once young people leave the classroom, very little interracial discussion takes place because a desire to associate with one's own ethnic group often discourages interaction between groups," wrote Brendesha Tynes of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
All told, the odds of a white high-schooler in America having a best friend of another race is only 8 percent. Those odds barely improve for the second-best friend, or the third-best, or the fifth. For blacks, the odds aren't much better: 85 percent of black kids' best friends are also black. Cross-race friends also tend to share a single activity, rather than multiple activities; as a result, these friendships are more likely to be lost over time, as children transition from middle school to high school.
I can't help but wonder—would the track record of desegregation be so mixed if parents reinforced it, rather than remaining silent? It is tempting to believe that because their generation is so diverse, today's children grow up knowing how to get along with people of every race. But numerous studies suggest that this is more of a fantasy than a fact.
Is it really so difficult to talk with children about race when they're very young? What jumped out at Phyllis Katz, in her study of 200 black and white children, was that parents are very comfortable talking to their children about gender, and they work very hard to counterprogram against boy-girl stereotypes. That ought to be our model for talking about race. The same way we remind our daughters, "Mommies can be doctors just like daddies," we ought to be telling all children that doctors can be any skin color. It's not complicated what to say. It's only a matter of how often we reinforce it.
Shushing children when they make an improper remark is an instinctive reflex, but often the wrong move. Prone to categorization, children's brains can't help but attempt to generalize rules from the examples they see. It's embarrassing when a child blurts out, "Only brown people can have breakfast at school," or "You can't play basketball; you're white, so you have to play baseball." But shushing them only sends the message that this topic is unspeakable, which makes race more loaded, and more intimidating.
To be effective, researchers have found, conversations about race have to be explicit, in unmistakable terms that children understand. A friend of mine repeatedly told her 5-year-old son, "Remember, everybody's equal." She thought she was getting the message across. Finally, after seven months of this, her boy asked, "Mommy, what's 'equal' mean?"
Bigler ran a study in which children read brief biographies of famous African-Americans. For instance, in a biography of Jackie Robinson, they read that he was the first African-American in the major leagues. But only half read about how he'd previously been relegated to the Negro Leagues, and how he suffered taunts from white fans. Those facts—in five brief sentences were omitted in the version given to the other children.
After the two-week history class, the children were surveyed on their racial attitudes. White children who got the full story about historical discrimination had significantly better attitudes toward blacks than those who got the neutered version. Explicitness works. "It also made them feel some guilt," Bigler adds. "It knocked down their glorified view of white people." They couldn't justify in-group superiority.
Minority parents are more likely to help their children develop a racial identity from a young age. April Harris-Britt, a clinical psychologist and professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, found that all minority parents at some point tell their children that discrimination is out there, but they shouldn't let it stop them. Is this good for them? Harris-Britt found that some preparation for bias was beneficial, and it was necessary—94 percent of African-American eighth graders reported to Harris-Britt that they'd felt discriminated against in the prior three months.
But if children heard these preparation-for-bias warnings often (rather than just occasionally), they were significantly less likely to connect their successes to effort, and much more likely to blame their failures on their teachers—whom they saw as biased against them.
Harris-Britt warns that frequent predictions of future discrimination ironically become as destructive as experiences of actual discrimination: "If you overfocus on those types of events, you give the children the message that the world is going to be hostile—you're just not valued and that's just the way the world is."
Preparation for bias is not, however, the only way minorities talk to their children about race. The other broad category of conversation, in Harris-Britt's analysis, is ethnic pride. From a very young age, minority children are coached to be proud of their ethnic history. She found that this was exceedingly good for children's self-confidence; in one study, black children who'd heard messages of ethnic pride were more engaged in school and more likely to attribute their success to their effort and ability.
That leads to the question that everyone wonders but rarely dares to ask. If "black pride" is good for African-American children, where does that leave white children? It's horrifying to imagine kids being "proud to be white." Yet many scholars argue that's exactly what children's brains are already computing. Just as minority children are aware that they belong to an ethnic group with less status and wealth, most white children naturally decipher that they belong to the race that has more power, wealth, and control in society; this provides security, if not confidence. So a pride message would not just be abhorrent—it'd be redundant.
Over the course of our research, we heard many stories of how people—from parents to teachers—were struggling to talk about race with their children. For some, the conversations came up after a child had made an embarrassing comment in public. A number had the issue thrust on them, because of an interracial marriage or an international adoption. Still others were just introducing children into a diverse environment, wondering when and if the timing was right.
But the story that most affected us came from a small town in rural Ohio. Two first-grade teachers, Joy Bowman and Angela Johnson, had agreed to let a professor from Ohio State University, Jeane Copenhaver-Johnson, observe their classrooms for the year. Of the 33 children, about two thirds were white, while the others were black or of mixed-race descent.
It being December, the teachers had decided to read to their classes 'Twas the Night B'fore Christmas, Melodye Rosales's retelling of the Clement C. Moore classic. As the teachers began reading, the kids were excited by the book's depiction of a family waiting for Santa to come. A few children, however, quietly fidgeted. They seemed puzzled that this storybook was different: in this one, it was a black family all snug in their beds.
Then there was the famed clatter on the roof. The children leaned in to get their first view of Santa and the sleigh as Johnson turned the page—
And they saw that Santa was black.
"He's black!" gasped a white little girl.
A white boy exclaimed, "I thought he was white!"
Immediately, the children began to chatter about the stunning development. At the ripe old ages of 6 and 7, the children had no doubt that there was a Real Santa. Of that they were absolutely sure. But suddenly there was this huge question mark. Could Santa be black? And if so, what did that mean?
While some of the black children were delighted with the idea that Santa could be black, others were unsure. A couple of the white children rejected this idea out of hand: a black Santa couldn't be real.
But even the little girl the most adamant that the Real Santa must be white came around to accept the possibility that a black Santa could fill in for White Santa if he was hurt. And she still gleefully yelled along with the Black Santa's final "Merry Christmas to All! Y'all Sleep Tight."
Other children offered the idea that perhaps Santa was "mixed with black and white"—something in the middle, like an Indian. One boy went with a two-Santa hypothesis: White Santa and Black Santa must be friends who take turns visiting children. When a teacher made the apparently huge mistake of saying that she'd never seen Santa, the children all quickly corrected her: everyone had seen Santa at the mall. Not that that clarified the situation any.
The debate raged for a week, in anticipation of a school party. The kids all knew Real Santa was the guest of honor.
Then Santa arrived at the party—and he was black. Just like in the picture book.
Some white children said that this black Santa was too thin: that meant that the Real Santa was the fat white one at Kmart. But one of the white girls retorted that she had met the man and was convinced. Santa was brown.
Most of the black children were exultant, since this proved that Santa was black. But one of them, Brent, still doubted—even though he really wanted a black Santa to be true. So he bravely confronted Santa.
"There ain't no black Santas!" Brent insisted.
"Lookit here." Santa pulled up a pant leg.
A thrilled Brent was sold. "This is a black Santa!" he yelled. "He's got black skin and his black boots are like the white Santa's boots."
A black-Santa storybook wasn't enough to crush every stereotype. When Johnson later asked the kids to draw Santa, even the black kids who were excited about a black Santa still depicted him with skin as snowy white as his beard.
But the shock of the Santa storybook was the catalyst for the first graders to have a yearlong dialogue about race issues. The teachers began regularly incorporating books that dealt directly with issues of racism into their reading.
And when the children were reading a book on Martin Luther King Jr. and the civil-rights movement, both a black and a white child noticed that white people were nowhere to be found in the story. Troubled, they decided to find out just where in history both peoples were.

There's an article by Newsweek - cover story actually - talking about how babies discriminate as young as 6 months old. That is bloody ridiculous! Tell me, is Newsweek becoming racist itself?

Though I agree with some points in the article, like explicitly talking to your children about race, I highly disagree with desegregation not working. Diverse environments actually help children, not hinder them. So now, Newsweek is both racist and supportive of segregation. great.

And also, the tests seem unreliable, and very qualitative. The experimenters could be biased themselves. And, come on, the tests were done at Texas.

I'm sure many of you have seen this article already, as it was from September, but wtv...I just saw it today.

Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor
28th November 2009, 18:22
I agree about desegregation being useful. However, I think that even if the study isn't accurate, the conclusions probably are.

Humans learn a lot of their information by association. If children see fire and associate it with pain, they will learn to avoid it. This occurs even at a young age. Children are often in situations with the television on, and they likely hear "serious tones" when black people are around. The parents of the children also are likely to have considerably different reactions to blacks in public. Children will pick up on this.

revolution inaction
28th November 2009, 22:59
http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989



There's an article by Newsweek - cover story actually - talking about how babies discriminate as young as 6 months old. That is bloody ridiculous! Tell me, is Newsweek becoming racist itself?

Though I agree with some points in the article, like explicitly talking to your children about race, I highly disagree with desegregation not working. Diverse environments actually help children, not hinder them. So now, Newsweek is both racist and supportive of segregation. great.

And also, the tests seem unreliable, and very qualitative. The experimenters could be biased themselves. And, come on, the tests were done at Texas.

I'm sure many of you have seen this article already, as it was from September, but wtv...I just saw it today.


Also it seems to completely ignore the affect that social attitudes, assumptions and the media have on children. If race isn't talked about but people of different races are portrayed differently, and adults tend not to have many friends of different races then children are going to notice it.

Schrödinger's Cat
28th November 2009, 23:48
A baby is probably somewhat biased as soon as he or she looks up at his or her black/white/Asian parents.


And, come on, the tests were done at Texas. That doesn't say much, haha. The Austin area is more "liberal" than many parts of the North-East and coastal California. You can walk around the capital and see lesbians walking around with their arms entangled and few will think anything of it. San Antonio and South Texas aren't as tolerant towards alternative lifestyles but they're ethnically diverse and fairly populated between Hispanics, Anglos, Germans, and Africans.

West Texas has some notoriously racist communities, though.

Jimmie Higgins
29th November 2009, 03:28
It was no surprise that in a liberal city like Austin, every parent was a welcoming multiculturalist, embracing diversity.

Except that Austin is the whitest city in Texas and has the highest cost of living.

I didn't finish reading the whole article, so I didn't get to the part about integration/segregation. But the beginning really showed the stupidity and shallowness of "post-racial" "colorblind" society arguments.

But I think that the problems of acting like racism doesn't exist doesn't begin with parenting, there has been a concerted effort by the right-wing to say that the US is post-racial and that there is no racism in contemporary America.

Ignoring the reality of racism in US society is basically the same as ignoring the injustice of jim-crow. It doesn't surprise me that nonwhites talked to their kids about race more than whites - because they have to deal with it! Most white people who grow up in mostly segregated areas don't even know about things like racial profiling because it is dismissed and ignored in the media and by politicians. Working class black males, on the other hand are taught by friends and family how to interact with cops because it's necessary to know that cops will assume that you are at fault in any situation. White children are told by their friends and family and media to ask cops for assistance or to only trust cops if they get lost because "other" people are dangerous strangers.

The Red Next Door
29th November 2009, 05:45
The only reason, i child can be racists is if they were taught to be racists little shits

CELMX
29th November 2009, 23:42
Except that Austin is the whitest city in Texas and has the highest cost of living.

I didn't finish reading the whole article, so I didn't get to the part about integration/segregation. But the beginning really showed the stupidity and shallowness of "post-racial" "colorblind" society arguments.

But I think that the problems of acting like racism doesn't exist doesn't begin with parenting, there has been a concerted effort by the right-wing to say that the US is post-racial and that there is no racism in contemporary America.

Ignoring the reality of racism in US society is basically the same as ignoring the injustice of jim-crow. It doesn't surprise me that nonwhites talked to their kids about race more than whites - because they have to deal with it! Most white people who grow up in mostly segregated areas don't even know about things like racial profiling because it is dismissed and ignored in the media and by politicians. Working class black males, on the other hand are taught by friends and family how to interact with cops because it's necessary to know that cops will assume that you are at fault in any situation. White children are told by their friends and family and media to ask cops for assistance or to only trust cops if they get lost because "other" people are dangerous strangers.

I totally agree with you!

Plus, blacks, as you said, are more likely to be thrown in jail, arrested, and such. They are seen on television very frequently as well.
The parents might point out that these men are "bad guys" to their little children. If the children see that the majority of arrested ppl are black, they might associate crime with minorities, not knowing that the reason more minorities are arrested because judges, police, etc. are racist themselves. Minorities are the first to blame in a crime scene.

And, yes, Texas is very very conservative, (even Austin), and full of whites/racists. There are many hate groups there as well.

Robocommie
30th November 2009, 04:31
I vote we pass a law banning racist babies.

Actually, in all seriousness, the problem with this article is that it doesn't take into consideration the extremely diffuse nature of racism and racist ideas in society. The water has been tainted now, rather insidiously. It's to the point where even black children, when they partake in these kinds of tests, have shown a tendency to identify "dark" and "black" with ugly or bad, and will often prefer playing with white baby dolls instead of black baby dolls.

It's internal colonization, you know? This is something a lot of white liberals can't appreciate, and something which right wingers will fucking stare at you like you're an idiot if you talk about. But it's a very real force; and it's unlikely to change because, as seen in this study, a lot of white people don't want to confront racism because they might be forced to talk about a lot of things they don't feel comfortable with.

synthesis
2nd December 2009, 11:17
It's to the point where even black children, when they partake in these kinds of tests, have shown a tendency to identify "dark" and "black" with ugly or bad, and will often prefer playing with white baby dolls instead of black baby dolls."It's to the point where..."? Brown vs. Board of Education was, what, almost sixty years ago?

In any case, I think "multiculturalism," as an ideal, should be replaced with "inter-culturalism" as a practical concern. The idea of multiple cultures existing without any friction at all - not gonna happen any time soon. The better solution is to embrace that friction as a stepping stone towards a mutual understanding.

"Is your baby racist"? That question has more merit than we think. Kids watch their parents very closely, and pick up on much more than we think. For example, one study showed how Japanese babies are much more traumatized than American babies when faced with anger on the part of their mothers, because American culture focuses on "expressing" emotions, while Japanese culture values the "controlling" of emotions, especially in women.

But that's not really a satisfactory (or satisfying) answer. The real solution is in neurobiology. We are designed, by evolution, to quickly categorize things we see and react depending on the assumptions we associate with that category. Made sense when there was no use in wondering if perhaps this tiger or that grizzly bear was different from the rest.

That's what my friend Bill calls "inferior thinking." He's in his 40's, and has no formal education, but because of his light skin he finds himself playing diplomat to white and black ignorance alike, and the phrase seems to come in handy a lot. Categorization was good when it was a matter of survival, but in a civilized society, we have to move beyond that.

Accordingly, I don't think open-mindedness and critical thinking are concepts that can be taught in schools, at least not straight-forwardly. "The second-handedness of the learned world is the secret of its mediocrity." Show, don't tell.

We have to stop thinking of cultural and interpersonal friction as something altogether "bad," not to say that we should encourage it, but what kids really need to know is that context is everything, and that, to paraphrase Socrates, we are all ultimately ignorant. Basically, they have to know that they know nothing, before they can know anything.

Dimentio
2nd December 2009, 12:04
http://www.newsweek.com/id/214989



There's an article by Newsweek - cover story actually - talking about how babies discriminate as young as 6 months old. That is bloody ridiculous! Tell me, is Newsweek becoming racist itself?

Though I agree with some points in the article, like explicitly talking to your children about race, I highly disagree with desegregation not working. Diverse environments actually help children, not hinder them. So now, Newsweek is both racist and supportive of segregation. great.

And also, the tests seem unreliable, and very qualitative. The experimenters could be biased themselves. And, come on, the tests were done at Texas.

I'm sure many of you have seen this article already, as it was from September, but wtv...I just saw it today.

It is true that discrimination in some sense is lying within human nature, since humans are biologically evolved to live in small groups. Amongst all social animals, there is a certain "natural hierarchy" evolving between a spectrum of alpha and omega individuals. Those who do not accept their position in the hierarchy or are visibly different would be rejected.

But that some things are "natural" doesn't per definition make them acceptable. It is not morally motivated to discriminate people for any reason they themselves cannot blame on, such as race, gender, disabilities or things like that.

We humans are gifted with the ability to choose to go beyond our mere instincts. And I am convinced that discrimination and racism eventually would wear off by evolution or be confined to the mentally most unstable segments of any society.

But I would like to state that "natural" isn't per definition equal with "good". For example, it might be natural for men to kill each-other in the struggle of mating, but it isn't per definition "good". It might be natural for a child of one skin colour to feel discomfort in the presence of a child with another skin colour, but that doesn't mean it is "good" with racism.

The only ideology which absolutely proclaims that everything that is "natural" is good is national socialism (laissez faire liberalism and fascism also follows similar moral outlines, but confided to the market and to state relations, while nazism absolutely follows the vulgar darwinist interpretation of humanity).

Humanity hasn't evolved much since the hunter-gatherer societies of old. It was only about 12 000 years ago when the neolithic revolution happened. I think this diskrepancy between who we are and what our society is might be fueling a lot of the instability we have seen in our relationships with ourselves and our environment.

Pawn Power
2nd December 2009, 22:11
I saw that cover on newsweek a few days ago. How silly. Of course babies arn't racist- racism is a social construct and is taught.

Babies don't have the capacity to be racist. Racism is prejudice plus power and babies don't have any power because, well.. they are babies!

ComradeMan
2nd December 2009, 22:31
Racism is largely the result of conditioning. I think there are many points where this study is flawed.

I don't know about in the USA but I would reckon that in Italy the image most people get of black people on TV is-
1. Starving Africans
2. Sportspeople
3. Gangster rappers

There are of course things like the Fresh Prince and all the CSI-type series etc.

Looking from a child's naive point of view, a 5-7 year old might make the assumption that black people fall into the categories above with some exceptions.

I hope you get what I mean.

This backs up my theory of TV being the voice of the capitalist satan! :thumbup1:

revolution inaction
2nd December 2009, 23:11
Babies don't have the capacity to be racist. Racism is prejudice plus power and babies don't have any power because, well.. they are babies!
It's got nothing to do with power, its about thinking that some ones "race" tells you something about them.

Jimmie Higgins
2nd December 2009, 23:19
It's got nothing to do with power, its about thinking that some ones "race" tells you something about them.

Racism is nothing if not for the power component. Thinking that someone's so-called race tells you something about them is called stereotyping or being prejudiced; hating someone because of some feature about them or their background is called bigotry.

Black people can think that they know something about someone based on their race but that doesn't mean that racism is involved. Whites don's suffer from "black-racism" if a black person meets a white person and suspects him of being from a wealthy background or having bigoted views of black people or liking country music.

ComradeMan
2nd December 2009, 23:29
Racism is nothing if not for the power component. Thinking that someone's so-called race tells you something about them is called stereotyping or being prejudiced; hating someone because of some feature about them or their background is called bigotry.

Black people can think that they know something about someone based on their race but that doesn't mean that racism is involved. Whites don's suffer from "black-racism" if a black person meets a white person and suspects him of being from a wealthy background or having bigoted views of black people or liking country music.

Are you saying that black people cannot be racist?

revolution inaction
3rd December 2009, 01:03
Racism is nothing if not for the power component.

Bullshit, if that were true there would be no poor racists, and no one could be racist against someone like obama



Thinking that someone's so-called race tells you something about them is called stereotyping or being prejudiced; hating someone because of some feature about them or their background is called bigotry.

Yes racism involves stereotyping and prejudiced and can lead to bigotry.



Black people can think that they know something about someone based on their race but that doesn't mean that racism is involved. Whites don's suffer from "black-racism" if a black person meets a white person and suspects him of being from a wealthy background or having bigoted views of black people or liking country music.

there's no "black-racism" or "white-racism", if some one makes assumptions about another based on there race then that is racism, regardless of the colour of there skin, they can be the same colour even it doesn't matter.
Of course racism has a worse effect on people who are not white because the overwhelming majority of the population is white in western countries, and even more so the ruling class.
This doesn't make a black person who assumes white people like country music any less racist than a white person who assumes black people like rap music.

Of cause there are different levels of racism, making assumptions about musical taste is not remotely similar to calling people of other races "sub human" or attempting to rank races from best to worst. But they all come from the same source, the idea that some ones "race" affects more than there appearance.

I think the idea that racism is about "power and prejudice" probably originates in attempts to explain in racial, rather than class, terms, things like why black people are on average much worse of then white people. So instead of recognising that in a class society the descendents of slaves are going to be worse off than people not descended from slaves, people come out with crap like "structural racism", which doesn't explain anything but does conveniently avoid calling into question capitalism and the market.

Jimmie Higgins
3rd December 2009, 02:59
Are you saying that black people cannot be racist?Not in the US. Black people don't deny white people home loans or put jim-crow laws in place etc.

Where does racism come from? From some inherent fear of "otherness"? That's the post-modern argument; the one you most often hear from liberals because they view society as being a bunch of different "interest groups" (men v. women, labor v. capital, black v. white) and the role of the state is to keep these groups from hurting or exploiting each other.

I think history shows that racism is not some abstract development of culture or some inherent "human nature" that causes fear of difference:

1. most early accounts of contact between different people show that conflict is not automatic. Many of the first Europeans to the new world were in awe of native people and they often viewed them as some kind of idealized people. When the new lands became potentially valuable, this changed and the Pope or some king in other countries would give religious justification for subjugating the natives or forcibly converting them.

2. during the slave years of the American colonies and the United States, the slavocracy had to pass laws to prevent inter-racial marriage and even inter-racial fratinization between servants of different races. If racism is just inherent, why did they need to pass these laws? Why were they terrified of black and white servants working together?

3. if racism is something inherent in a chulture or humanity in general, how can racism change throught time? Why were the Irish hated enough in the US that a political party based on preventing their entry to the US was created and yet now even the KKK can't be bothered to hate Irish catholics anymore. Why was there a lot of solidarity for black people by whites during the civil war and reconstruction and then it got so much worse 20 years later?


In a country based on freedom and liberty like the US, historically racism has been used to explain away and scapegoat failings of the system. They argued, we have freedom to all who are capable of handeling it but since some people are inferior they do not deserve the rights promised in the bill of rights. This logic extend to today... in America, race and class don't matter, they now argue, if there are poor people it's because they are lazy; if more black people are poor than whites proportionately, then it must be because blacks just aren't as good... or women... or latinos... or whoever.

Anybody can be bigoted, but that doesn't create ghettos or sub-standard and unequal schools or glass celings. Systemic racism comes straight from the top of society, not from workers in society.

Jimmie Higgins
3rd December 2009, 03:15
Bullshit, if that were true there would be no poor racists, and no one could be racist against someone like obamaYes and no. Of course poor people can be racist, but they are not racist against POWERFUL PEOPLE, they use racism against OPRESSED people like blacks or jews or immigrants.

Similarly, people do not use racism against Obama because he's POWERFUL! People use racism against Obama because he's BLACK!


there's no "black-racism" or "white-racism", if some one makes assumptions about another based on there race then that is racism, regardless of the colour of there skin, they can be the same colour even it doesn't matter.In the US, this is the argument made by Rush Limbaugh, it's called "reverse-racism" in the US when black people are supposedly racist against whites... it's fake and it's nothing but bullshit.


Of course racism has a worse effect on people who are not white because the overwhelming majority of the population is white in western countries, and even more so the ruling class.No, racism is based on power. There are more arabs in Israel and Palistine and yet the racism in that region is anti-arab racism... the zionist ruling class claims it can take other people's homes and land because they are not responcible to live peacfully next to Israel.

In South Africa, the minority population (white) used racism to justify their undemocratic rule of the black majority. Again, racism comes from structures of power and opression, not from people just having bad ideas about other people for no particular reason.


I think the idea that racism is about "power and prejudice" probably originates in attempts to explain in racial, rather than class, terms, things like why black people are on average much worse of then white people. So instead of recognising that in a class society the descendents of slaves are going to be worse off than people not descended from slaves, people come out with crap like "structural racism", which doesn't explain anything but does conveniently avoid calling into question capitalism and the market.See my last post. My arguemnt is completely class-based while your explaination is too simplistic. If black people are poor in the US just because they were slaves, then the right wing arguments are correct: Obama or Oprah or other sucsussful blacks are proof that racism has been overcome.

In my view racism is systemic and continueing in the US - primarily against Blacks, Latinos, and Arabs (but obviously other groups on a daily basis as well). Rather than being through the jim-crow system it's now done through the justice system where blacks and latinos and poor people of all groups are targeted and used to scapegoat for social problems. It is the primary way the US ruling class currently keeps the working class divided and fighting for crumbs.

blake 3:17
3rd December 2009, 03:17
I'm sure many of you have seen this article already, as it was from September, but wtv...I just saw it today.

I saw the cover on the news stand and just laughed. Thanks a lot for posting the article. The methodology is way all over the place (and kinda stupid (like babies filling out pop psych-soc studies)), but there are interesting bits.

I work with young people, and some of the nonsense driven down their throats is just awful. I see black girls and boys of any race treated much more harshly for minor misbehaviours. There are certain developmental stages where kids are categorizing people (including themselves) into basic binary patterns -- boy-girl, good-bad, big-small, and a bit later more expansive kinds of hierarchies or nuances.


I vote we pass a law banning racist babies.

Exactly. But then where do we send the racist babies? Or do we just love them? Or eat them?

ComradeMan
3rd December 2009, 21:25
It seems we may have slightly different views of racism here.

I think that the American comrades see it as more of an oppression issue. Perhaps it's chicken an egg- is racism a forma mentis to oppress or is it caused by oppression?

I see racism more as an issue of distinguishing people's and according them traits whatsover, good or bad according to their race- the oppression factor is secondary in my opinion and largely caused by the first. It's a sticky issue because when we start analysing things down to the fine line we see a lot of racism. Some white argue that to assume white people are privileged is also a form of racism despite whatever circumstances, the difference between white people are oppressors or many oppressors are white.

Perhaps it's a linguistic difference.

In Italian "razza" can mean "race" as in the English sense or can mean "type/kind/sort", so techincally someone who is homophobic can be a "razzista" whereas I don't think- correct me if I am wrong- this use would be so normal in English.

I find all forms of distinguishing and according traits to people by their biological morphology/genetic inheritance a form of racism whether it be bottom-top or top-bottom.

I'd like to add what I call "well-meant racism" too, the assumption that because someone is from an historically oppressed group- e.g. black people in America that they are de facto oppressed and pity should be felt for them- I know some black people have told me that they find this somewhat irritating at times.

Dimentio
3rd December 2009, 22:12
About that black people cannot show racism. There has been some wars in Africa between different ethnic groups of Africans. In some cases, the existence of these ethnic groups preceded European colonialism, in other cases - like Rwanda - the ethnic groups were created by European colonialists to splinter any potential opposition against the colonialist regime.

Anyway, that white children are reacting strangely to black children is not because of any inherent racism, because racism is a modern concept. Rather, it is the reaction for the "unusual" as children learn to separate visible differences and try to explain them.

Pogue
3rd December 2009, 22:17
I hardly see how we could ever expect to label a child of 6 months old 'racist'. I'd dispute even a 6 year old child being able to be 'racist', seeing as they are a child.

Dr Mindbender
3rd December 2009, 22:20
i wonder if theres a similar test to find out if my baby is class concious.

Die Rote Fahne
3rd December 2009, 22:31
If a child sees someone different they will be interested, unless taught to not like it.

If you act comfortable around a black guy, and your child just sees this black guy, it may be interested because "This is new" to them, but they should not feel discomfort because they are a black person.

Pogue
3rd December 2009, 22:33
i wonder if theres a similar test to find out if my baby is class concious.

lol, yeh, put em near a picket line and see if they crawl over it or something :lol:

no child of mine would ever do that. :sleep: