The problem i see in the world-left parties is arrogance and lack of social skills

[LeninistKing]

I think that the main problem of many leftist parties, leftist movements and leftist individuals in this world is lack of social skills. Many communists, anarchists and socialists are very unfriendly, violent and aggressive toward non-leftists. And this is one of the major reasons of why non-leftits hate leftist ideology. Many leftists think that being unfriendly will overthrow the capitalist system.

Many leftists are also very closed-minded, and very self-absorved, instead of being democratic, and open-minded in order to attract as many people as possible to the socialist ideology.


We need a different left in this world, we need people with social skills, knowledge and morality, not assholes with Che Guevara T shirts pretending to be Messiahs and full of arrogance and greed.

.

[zubovskyblvd]

I semi-agree. There have been a lot of people on the left who I agree with politically but find utterly impossible to get along with because they have no social skills whatsoever- too much fist-banging and finger-pointing, which I know puts a lot of people off. However, there are a great deal of leftists who are great speakers and come across really well. I think it comes down to how you present yourself

[RadioRaheem84]

I agree to an extent but the fist banging is mostly due to the frustration of everything being so topsy turvy! It's a delicate balance to know the reality of the situation and remain calm. Most people aren't socially aware of the problems so they don't view things as that dire or don't want to view things as that dire. Also, the establishment has us pinned as being doom and gloom arrogant types. Whenever we contradict their statements and introduce facts into the debate we're accused of over analyzing the situation, thinking too much about things that are a "way of life", etc. Then the right throws in the whole "intellectual" slur to make it seem like we're incapbale of "good ol' common sense".

And it continues....:D

Next, liberals take advantage of their loose "affiliation" with the left by ursurping all of the good social things that leftists produced in the last century to inflate their egos. They mock the working class and their culture, revel in elitism and then take claim on the national scene for anything that we do on the local level!

And you expect leftists to be happy and cheerful all the time? For the longest time I never even wanted to hear what militant African Americans were saying because I assumed they were all fist banging, racist, arrogant, angry, "intellectuals"....i.e. "uppity". It wasn't until I actually heard their elequent speeches that the anger made sense. We're in a similar boat but we do have to find a middle ground.

Noam Chomsky does it fine to me, but then again I don't mind being lectured. Some people might dislike it and think it too "cerebral" (even though Chomsky is the nicest, well spoken, and humble intellectual of our time with a serious concern for the people). If he isn't plain speak and friendly enough for people then I don't know who will help.

[el_chavista]

This is a LeninKing's logical error: undue generalization. How many leftist can you possibly know?
Now, leftist ideological confrontations are another story.

[RHIZOMES]

We need a different left in this world, we need people with social skills

Shit I guess I'm out.

[The Count]

Shit I guess I'm out.
Same here.

This comes 'round to the whole intellectualism debate once again. Those who are intellectual, or believe themselves to be, are often not the most popular of individuals. Fools, quite noticeably, are always those with the greatest ways of relating to people. Unfortunately, this means that those whose ideas should be heard most are least acknowledged. Communism is quite an in-depth subject matter, while most people in the United States know it as an evil dictatorship. It's true that quite a few of us may be arrogant and close-minded, but it's merely a response to how rejected our ideas are, largely due to sheer ignorance or apathy.

[The Red Next Door]

I agree, We also need to connect with rednecks because look they are not very bright people and we need to speak to them on a level, that they can understand and the same goes for speaking the average person. not everyone are smart minded and into politics deeply as we are. At the same time we can educating but do it in a way, in which doesn't seem like we are brainwashing them.

[the last donut of the night]

Although I don't know most leftists in the USA, I think the OP's problem may come from the fact that while we know a shitload about communism, most people see us as crazy, antiquated, or just plain dumb.

It makes our hearts freeze up.:crying:

[Mute Fox]

Originally posted by RadioRaheem84
It's a delicate balance to know the reality of the situation and remain calm.

Absolutely. The problem is not that we leftists "lack social skills" or are "unfriendly" and "arrogant." I mean sure, some of us are, but that's the same with any group of people. The problem is that we literally live in a world that is upside-down, while everyone else sees it as right-side up. There is a parable (I don't remember where I heard it) about a man trapped in an invisible cage in the middle of an open field, which he paces the boundaries of day and night. A stranger from outside the cage stumbles upon this fellow one day, and notices that the guy keeps pacing around in a narrowly-defined rectangle. The stranger points this out to the man, who replies, "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm free to go wherever I want." The stranger replies, "No you're not - there is a whole open field all around you, yet you pace in this small rectangle. Obviously you are trapped." The man gets very angry, and shouts at the stranger, "I'm free to go wherever I want! You are the one who is trapped!"

I don't remember how it ends (and this was all paraphrased from memory anyway) but nonetheless it illustrates very nicely what we leftists have to deal with. The people we try to talk to are so bound up with the illusions of society and their place in them, that they will fight to defend them. It's not that we are unfriendly or elitist, it's that we are made to look like it by those who live their lives in these comfortable little invisible cages.

[RadioRaheem84]

Although I don't know most leftists in the USA, I think the OP's problem may come from the fact that while we know a shitload about communism, most people see us as crazy, antiquated, or just plain dumb.

It makes our hearts freeze up.:crying:

In a nation where the public perceives the Democrats to be a left wing party, then anything to the left of that is considered radical. Obama is about as left of a politician we've seen since FDR. If you know too much about the class struggle in this country then yes you will be viewed as a bit of an extremist. Since people are able to buy technological junk, rims for their car and bling blinging clothes all is well.

[Pirate turtle the 11th]

I agree, We also need to connect with rednecks because look they are not very bright people and we need to speak to them on a level, that they can understand and the same goes for speaking the average person. not everyone are smart minded and into politics deeply as we are. At the same time we can educating but do it in a way, in which doesn't seem like we are brainwashing them.

I don't know where to start really. Fuck followed by off might be a starter. Frankly no one is going to want to know you or speak to you if you act like that cut it out.

[Mute Fox]

Quote:
Originally Posted by social
I agree, We also need to connect with rednecks because look they are not very bright people and we need to speak to them on a level, that they can understand and the same goes for speaking the average person. not everyone are smart minded and into politics deeply as we are. At the same time we can educating but do it in a way, in which doesn't seem like we are brainwashing them.

I don't know where to start really. Fuck followed by off might be a starter. Frankly no one is going to want to know you or speak to you if you act like that cut it out.I believe what Comrade Joe is trying to say is that statements like the one you made are elitist and classist, if not completely moronic. I'm not even sure that "rednecks" isn't a racial slur. In any case, the average person may be ignorant of facts that we happen to be lucky enough to know, but that isn't to say they are stupid. They just need to be made aware of their situation as part of a class, educated as to how to fight for their interests as a class, and generally disillusioned. It's not at all a matter of us leftists being "smarter" or more "politically-minded."

Also - and this is in the spirit of comradely critique rather than a cheap shot - try to capitalize, use commas properly, and generally follow basic English grammar before you start casting doubt on the intelligence of another group of people. :D

EDIT: Unless English isn't your first language, in which case never mind what I said ^^

[blake 3:17]

Many leftists think that being unfriendly will overthrow the capitalist system.


I drives me crazy!

I think the Left is way too ascetic, world denying, anti-pleasure, all that duty duty guilt obligation duty duty feel bad never enough why should I enjoy myself when someone else is suffering duty obligation feel bad , the bathroom is I don't know where, it's for the greater good (eventually).

Who wants that?

[Charles Xavier]

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[Jimmie Higgins]

I think that the main problem of many leftist parties, leftist movements and leftist individuals in this world is lack of social skills. Many communists, anarchists and socialists are very unfriendly, violent and aggressive toward non-leftists. And this is one of the major reasons of why non-leftits hate leftist ideology. Many leftists think that being unfriendly will overthrow the capitalist system.

Many leftists are also very closed-minded, and very self-absorved, instead of being democratic, and open-minded in order to attract as many people as possible to the socialist ideology.


We need a different left in this world, we need people with social skills, knowledge and morality, not assholes with Che Guevara T shirts pretending to be Messiahs and full of arrogance and greed.


Right, well there's a reputation for this and probably some truth to it, but I don't think it's any different for any other group of people. I think if you gathered up 500 radicals and 500 conservatives or liberal activists of similar backgrounds and ages, the 500 radicals would seem the same if not more down to earth and easier to talk to.

So I think part of the perception of the ill-mannered "fanatical" Marxist or anarchist comes from the way radicals are presented in popular culture and history and so on. The establishment presents radicals as one-dimensional people without humor or other interests while doing dozens of news stories talking about Obama or Bush's family, work on their ranches, and speculation about what pet they will get for their kids. Establishment politicians go in front of the camera and tell amusing non-political stories while behind the scenes scores of pundits and think-tankers and party operatives go out like a swarm of blackberry wielding locusts to hammer their political message everywhere they can.

Then again, establishment politicians are elites and work from the top-down and can force media and schools to push their messages. We need to work collaboratively and from the bottom up, so it is definitely more important that we do everything we can to not drive people away and make sure they too become active and learn how to be leaders at their workplaces or schools and communities.

I think the bigger problem we face as a movement is sectarianism, not lack of social skills. When I was a new radical, I had many bad experiences in coalitions where some black-block type person would be friendly and then become incredibly hostile when they found out I was "an evil Leninist" or some old Stalinist would threaten me or yell at me because of my politics and the Sparts would... well they'd be Sparts. And I'm sure anarchists and stalinists have met undue hostility from Trotskyists too. I think the answer to this is perspective: the revolutionary left is small and while it is important to know where you stand on political issues, it is also important to balance the short and long-term goals. In the short-term I want to work with anyone I can from social-democrats to anarchists if there is a reform to be won or some other short-term goal that will help the working class and help us build a better left in general.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Sort of agree.

In general I would expect resistance and rejection of Capitalism and those who are the main ringleaders of such an ideology. However you are right in that a lot of people who are potential socialists are put off by the painting of Socialism, in all forms, as an extreme, oppressive and somewhat elitist, against-the-masses ideology. Much of this has been fostered by the Capitalist controlled media. However, the current generation of Socialist leaders has done little to dispel the myths, and give off the impression that they would rather continue in the same vain (Socialism failing in many advanced Capitalist nations) than lose their positions of power.

Personally, I believe that there is a lack of ingenuity in modern socialism. The only tactics used are moany newspaper columns and numerous bland and uninspiring marches. This will not achieve the strategic aim of overthrowing Capitalism.

Those in countries with traditionally successful militant socialist wings should really grab some attention - the French or Germans for example, could resuscitate the old RAF. I imagine it is probably too late now, but inthe midst of recession such a tactic might have gotten some popular support and sympathy.