"New World Order"

[Aÿnur]

I've recently became more interesed and obsessed with the "New World Order" -theories and I would like to see what other people think about this.

One of my main concerns and in depth -topics in my mind has been the incident in WTC some years ago in New York. The theory that the government of United States itself was behind this and not the al-Qaeda sounds like a good plan to have a reason to attack into the Middle-East. According to theorists, this is nothing but another bureaucratical/political move to create a "New World Order."

Another theories is the idea that the United States is, behind the scenes, becoming the "Fourth Reich." I find this funny but in the same time concerning since I've never felt sympathy towards neo-nazis. The post-World War II ODESSA -network has supposedly been alive since the end of the war and continues to work in order to create the "Fourth Reich."

Share your thoughts.

[Pirate Utopian]

It's complete and utter bullshit.

Plain and simple.

None of their so-called "facts" make sense or proof anything.

[The Feral Underclass]

The working class are daily exploited, oppressed and alienated from their own lives.

That's the biggest conspiracy on the planet. Any other is frankly irrelevant.

[Forward Union]

I think it's easy to look at the Invisible hand of the market (organic, natural, market processes) see that it tends to produce beneficial results for some, put down others, and believe that somehow, capitalism isn't a free market but a hyper-planned one designed to benefit the Ruling class.

It's complete fantasy brought about by simplistic thinking and elements of a paranoid mentality.

[thejambo1]

if its not fucking zeitgeist threads its fucking new world order!!! they are all a load of conspiracy right wing nut jobs anyone interested in them should really go and look to other forums for answers.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

Personally I don't believe in the statement that the Americans blew up the WTC themselves.
But still they eavily abuse it for their imperialist interests and the opression of the Masses.
However, this is not so much an evil plan as it is the inevitable way how capitalism works.
As long as there's capitalism, there will always be such "conspiracies", it's inherently connected to the system itself.

[Comrade Gwydion]

I think it's easy to look at the Invisible hand of the market (organic, natural, market processes) see that it tends to produce beneficial results for some, put down others, and believe that somehow, capitalism isn't a free market but a hyper-planned one designed to benefit the Ruling class.

It's complete fantasy brought about by simplistic thinking and elements of a paranoid mentality.

this.

Capitalism is unfair, and it does create a terribly small elite. However, I don;t think this small elite 'planned' this, but rather thinks themselves lucky and tries to keep it that way.

[Wakizashi the Bolshevik]

this.

Capitalism is unfair, and it does create a terribly small elite. However, I don;t think this small elite 'planned' this, but rather thinks themselves lucky and tries to keep it that way.
It's what Lenin said about, I believe, the German bourgeoisie in the First World War: it's not personally their fault or their own plan, it's just how they are, how they inevitably act in the capitalist system.

[ComradeOm]

Share your thoughts.The History forum should not be a place for conspiracy theorists. You are talking fantasy, not history

[Aÿnur]

The History forum should not be a place for conspiracy theorists. You are talking fantasy, not history
Wondered if this was the right section for this, sorry.


if its not fucking zeitgeist threads its fucking new world order!!! they are all a load of conspiracy right wing nut jobs anyone interested in them should really go and look to other forums for answers.
I wanted to see what other leftists thought about this.

[Holden Caulfield]

One of my main concerns and in depth -topics in my mind has been the incident in WTC some years ago in New York. The theory that the government of United States itself was behind this and not the al-Qaeda sounds like a good plan to have a reason to attack into the Middle-East.


If the Republicans did blow up the towers, everybody would vote Democrat in disgust and nothing would change.

And they don't need a good reason to invade a country, see Iraq and WMD's or anyother nation the USA has 'intervened' in.

They (conspiracy nuts) have pull together loads of so called evidence yet neglect to realised that even if they were true it wouldn't necessarily change anything.

[thejambo1]

Wondered if this was the right section for this, sorry.


I wanted to see what other leftists thought about this.

there is a tonne of things on here better than NWO rubbish, lots to learn and enjoy,you would really be better of ditching this trash as it really is not what its all about. enjy this forum as its a goodie but ditch the conspiracy stuff.:)

[mikelepore]

the incident in WTC some years ago in New York. The theory that the government of United States itself was behind this.

The theory arose from a group of people who knew nothing about architecture or civil engineering, noticing that they couldn't understand why the buildings fell down. The answer can't possible be "I don't know anything about this subject", so it must be a government plot.

[Holden Caulfield]

anybody who tells you conspiracy theories are bullshit is an agent of the ZOG

[thejambo1]

anybody who tells you conspiracy theories are bullshit is an agent of the ZOG:laugh:

[Comrade Gwydion]

I don't think it would be surprising if 9/11 was an inside-job. However, all the 'NWO'-crap really takes paranoid to a whole different level.

[Omi]

Nwo, I suppose? ;)

[Comrade Gwydion]

Don't know what you're talking about:cool:

[bcbm]

i prefer new order theories.

[Angry Young Man]

Another theories is the idea that the United States is, behind the scenes, becoming the "Fourth Reich." I find this funny but in the same time concerning since I've never felt sympathy towards neo-nazis. The post-World War II ODESSA -network has supposedly been alive since the end of the war and continues to work in order to create the "Fourth Reich."

Share your thoughts.

Reich means empire, which the US to all intents and purposes is.

[Os Cangaceiros]

The phrase "new world order" was originally used to refer to the new order in the world that resulted from the collapse of the Soviet Union (and subsequent exctintion of the previous bipolar power structure). In that sense the "new world order" is very real, but I'm not exactly sure how it transformed into what it is today, which is often used to refer to some kind of reptilian/Bohemian Grove conspiracy to control the world. :lol:

[Dimentio]

The phrase "new world order" was originally used to refer to the new order in the world that resulted from the collapse of the Soviet Union (and subsequent exctintion of the previous bipolar power structure). In that sense the "new world order" is very real, but I'm not exactly sure how it transformed into what it is today, which is often used to refer to some kind of reptilian/Bohemian Grove conspiracy to control the world. :lol:

Simply put, massive social alienation.

[Tyrlop]

Ask muzk he believes that crap.

[Invincible Summer]

Illuminati! Bilderbergs! Owls! Groves! Federal Reserve! Robert Langdon!

[Dimentio]

It is sad that conspiracy nuts are monopolising legitimate criticism against secret international summits like Bilderberg meetings. The Bilderberg meetings are early meetings which are supposed to be secretive and were public view is not allowed.

It may not be anything of any more than usual sinister politics they're discussing there, but it is tremendously hurtful that it apparently need to be so secretive. The public should demand that the Bilderberg meetings are made open.

[Revy]

I support a New World Order i.e. a world socialist federation.

[Comrade Gwydion]

I support a New World Order i.e. a world socialist federation.

But, isn't that what the NWO is anyway?
Tsar Obama and the other fascist elite trying to turn the world into a communist dictatorship?

[cleef]

i dont think these theories are all bad, at least they get people thinking and to question the actions of their government.

ok a lot of the theories are bullshit but the stuff about how the power and money in the world is concentrated in a small minority is what ultimately made me begin to look at marxist theory etc and my eventual support of the left

a lot of the people who believe this stuff could easily be brought over to the left if people werent so quick to condemn them all as right wing fascists with this holier than thou attitude

[thejambo1]

its the last thing we need people who believe in lizard people and who follow alex jones shit. most people who follow these conspiracy theories buy into it all hook line and sinker. call it holier than thou if you want but i just dont think you will find many good converts from the mass of nut jobs.:(

[Dimentio]

its the last thing we need people who believe in lizard people and who follow alex jones shit. most people who follow these conspiracy theories buy into it all hook line and sinker. call it holier than thou if you want but i just dont think you will find many good converts from the mass of nut jobs.:(

Is that why about half a million people are supporters of Zeitgeist?

[Angry Young Man]

its the last thing we need people who believe in lizard people
500 points to the first person to post a pic of the Queen as a lizard - a full lizard, not with a bit of scaly skin - on a banknote

[thejambo1]

Is that why about half a million people are supporters of Zeitgeist?
of for fucks sake not fucking zeitgeist again:rolleyes: i couldnt really give a flying fuck about people who are into zeitgeist they have absolutely fuck all in common with me.

[thejambo1]

500 points to the first person to post a pic of the Queen as a lizard - a full lizard, not with a bit of scaly skin - on a banknote
david icke has the truth apparantely:laugh: in all honesty they are pretty lizarish the inbred fuckwits!!

[Honggweilo]

oh thats just great, you are going to give me nightmares about alex jones again :(

[Comrade Gwydion]

Did you also know that dinosaurs had boats and the earth is flat?

[Meridian]

of for fucks sake not fucking zeitgeist again:rolleyes: i couldnt really give a flying fuck about people who are into zeitgeist they have absolutely fuck all in common with me.
And why should we give a fuck if they have anything in common with you?

It's not like Freemasonry, Bilderbergers, all kinds of occult groupings, what have you, does not exist or is not, in some cases, influential. The wealthy has a lot of free time and many weird hobbies. Of course, that is not preliminarily of concern for the radical left but to think these sort of groupings does not exist is foolish. That is not to say one should follow unreasonable conspiracy theories. But people "into" Zeitgeist could very well be potentially a lot more revolutionary than you will ever be.

[Dimentio]

of for fucks sake not fucking zeitgeist again:rolleyes: i couldnt really give a flying fuck about people who are into zeitgeist they have absolutely fuck all in common with me.

Zeitgeisters are generally naive and idealistic, I concur. But to say that they are the same as Alex Jones and David Icke is to ignore profound differences. Rather, I would say that Zeitgeist is "utopian communism 2.0".

[thejambo1]

And why should we give a fuck if they have anything in common with you?

It's not like Freemasonry, Bilderbergers, all kinds of occult groupings, what have you, does not exist or is not, in some cases, influential. The wealthy has a lot of free time and many weird hobbies. Of course, that is not preliminarily of concern for the radical left but to think these sort of groupings does not exist is foolish. That is not to say one should follow unreasonable conspiracy theories. But people "into" Zeitgeist could very well be potentially a lot more revolutionary than you will ever be.

i when have i ever met you? do you know me? do you fuck. if you want to support zeitgeist shite then fine but dont try to tell me that they are revolutionary,they are fuck all of the kind. this is not meant to be a forum for shite like nwo/zeitgeist, i always thought it had more to it than that.:(

[Dimentio]

i when have i ever met you? do you know me? do you fuck. if you want to support zeitgeist shite then fine but dont try to tell me that they are revolutionary,they are fuck all of the kind. this is not meant to be a forum for shite like nwo/zeitgeist, i always thought it had more to it than that.:(

Use real arguments.

[thejambo1]

Use real arguments.

no because i am sick of arguing about zeitgeist and nwo,life is too short to argue about pish like that.:rolleyes: in any case "real" in talking about nwo!!!

[Durruti's Ghost]

The Zeitgeist movement holds that the problems of the world economy are the result of the machinations of a secret cabal of "international bankers" and media elites (often also described as "communist", "socialist", or generally "totalitarian"), who are aiming to achieve world domination by (among other things) undermining US sovereignty by ushering in a "North American Union." In the process, the Zeitgeist movement distracts the potentially radical elements of the American working class from the real problem--capitalism--and turns their attention to these convenient scapegoats, this "international banking elite."

Now...doesn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories#Jewish_world_dominatio n) this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Jewis h_role_in_banking_system) all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard#Accusations_of_usury_and_profit eering) sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theory) a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard#Accusations_of_causing_wars.2C_ revolutions.2C_and_calamities) little (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government) too (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/federalreservesystem28mar09.shtml) familiar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion)?

[Dimentio]

The Zeitgeist movement holds that the problems of the world economy are the result of the machinations of a secret cabal of "international bankers" and media elites (often also described as "communist", "socialist", or generally "totalitarian"), who are aiming to achieve world domination by (among other things) undermining US sovereignty by ushering in a "North American Union." In the process, the Zeitgeist movement distracts the potentially radical elements of the American working class from the real problem--capitalism--and turns their attention to these convenient scapegoats, this "international banking elite."

Now...doesn't (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories#Jewish_world_dominatio n) this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_antisemitism_in_the_United_States#Jewis h_role_in_banking_system) all (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard#Accusations_of_usury_and_profit eering) sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theory) a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic_canard#Accusations_of_causing_wars.2C_ revolutions.2C_and_calamities) little (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government) too (http://educate-yourself.org/cn/federalreservesystem28mar09.shtml) familiar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion)?

Peter Joseph doesn't actually agree. In Addendum, he claims that the banking system is just a natural consequence of capitalism. He also has stated that it isn't a conspiracy, but rather the way the system works.

I have never seen the NAU mentioned by the Zeitgeist film. Rather by Alex Jones, who has denounced the Zeitgeist Movement by the way.

Moreover, is one automatically an antisemite for criticising the banking cartels, which obviously do exist?

[Durruti's Ghost]

Moreover, is one automatically an antisemite for criticising the banking cartels, which obviously do exist?

No, but if one frames the argument so that the banking cartels are portrayed as the central "enemy" rather than all the various factions of the bourgeoisie, one plays a role identical to that played by historical antisemites--that of spreading false consciousness amongst the working class and ultimately protecting the whole system by demonizing a small segment of it.

EDIT: You're right to point out my mistake in conflating the opinions of the Alex Jones crowd with those of the Zeitgeist crowd, though. For that, I apologize.

[Dimentio]

In Zeitgeist Addendum, the first part is focusing solely on how money is made, while the second part with John Perkins is criticising US Imperialism.

In Alex Jones' world, America is a victim to "NWO" imperialism and the USA is portrayed as a weak, exploited, small country throbbing under UN-imposed regulations wanting to end US sovereignity in particular for a "new world order" of shady bankers.

Jones is actually the closest thing USA has to a Hitler. Everything apart from the racism though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8a35lm8qNQ