Do communists celebrate Thanksgiving? [Archive]

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Kingpin

26th November 2009, 05:53

Or is it seen as an imperialist/consumerist/genocidal venture?

I don't have any plans for the day and I want to borrow an excuse as to why not.

Drace

26th November 2009, 06:24

Happy Indian Slaughter day?

al8

26th November 2009, 06:25

The winter celebrations to not have direct links to genocide or imperialism. They have capitalist features when they take place in a capitalist system where people, to a high and pervasive degree, relate to each other by products sold and bought on a market as commodities. And also there is nothing wrong with consumerism, we all consume things whether they be commodified or not.

Just take the celebrations as an opportunity to brake the mundane and keep contact with family and friends. Make the best of it.

Kingpin

26th November 2009, 06:35

Thing is no family or friends invited me to any feast or event.

They said I completely ruined the last Thanksgiving lol :blushing:

MarxSchmarx

26th November 2009, 06:36

Yes of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Thanksgiving_Day

AvanteRedGarde

26th November 2009, 09:11

http://shubelmorgan.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nothankkks.png?w=453&h=691&h=691

Recently posted by the Revolutionary Anti-Imperialist Movement (Denver) (http://raimd.wordpress.com)

Devrim

26th November 2009, 10:00

I don't, but then neither does anybody in this country. Of course though many communists, like others, get together with family members when a public holiday gives the opportunity, and don't just sit there giving a critique of the celebration.

Devrim

Jazzratt

26th November 2009, 12:35

Quite. I've never lived anywhere that celebrates Thanksgiving but I imagine if I did I would "celebrate" it as it seems like a celebration tailor made for me; lots and lots of food and no gift giving (I don't mind giving gifts but I always feel awkward recieving them because I can rarely afford or have the skill to give gifts of the same calibre as those I recieve). At the same time I imagine it would be a lot like a celebration of christmas - no communist celebrates the birth of Jesus (apart from the religious whackos but it's best to keep them at arms length) and no communist is likely to celebrate colonialism.

ComradeMan

26th November 2009, 12:44

I am not American, but perhaps it would be a good time to remember the Native American populations and try to build bridges instead of stuffing people's faces with turkey.:D

From an anarchist point of view it will always be seen as a staist celebration.

Pirate Utopian

26th November 2009, 16:47

http://shubelmorgan.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/nothankkks.png?w=453&h=691&h=691

Recently posted by the Revolutionary Anti-Imperialist Movement (Denver) (http://raimd.wordpress.com)
"Thankkks", seriously?

And Amerikkka is such an Ice Cube ripoff.

Bloody Kalashnikov

26th November 2009, 17:03

Jazzratt

26th November 2009, 17:12

when fort hood got attacked, Obama was supposed to adress the Native American board about reperations wasnt he?, bet they were thinking, these bastards will do anything to get out of do anything for the Natives who they robbed raped and masacred.
I heard the Italian Gov used a pic of a native American with the heading, he was a victim of immigration, no you dick he was a victim of British / American IMPERIALISM

Not to undermine your point too much but the bulk of what happened to the Native population in the Americas was nothing to do with American imperialism as when the main culprits of colonial genocide (Britian, Holland, France & Spain) were doing their thing America wasn't extant. Afterward the continued and ugly oppression of indigenous peoples was a result of American internal policy rather than Imperialism.

Call a thing as it is mate.

Bud Struggle

26th November 2009, 17:13

Bloody Kalashnikov

26th November 2009, 17:28

Some communists love don corleone, we are full of hypocryts like that haha:)

Jazzratt

26th November 2009, 17:36

Happy Thanksgiving Comrades!

As Jazzratt said on another thread a while ago (and people think I don't listen:rolleyes:,) while we shouldn't "celebrate" the day, there is nothing wrong with "commemorating" the day and taking stock of all the good things that have happend to us in our lives. (Well, he said something like that.)

Enjoy the day.

Well you were close. My suggestion was that if you are inclined to commemerate the day then it is worth taking time to reflect on what good has come from European contact but only as a counterpoint to considering also the horror visited upon the native populations. Things like thanksgiving, and to a greater extent columbus day, invite reflection on history. If taking a long hard look at your nation's history depresses you 1) imagine if you lived in a country that had subjugated a huge slice of the world for more than a century (Britain), invented the concentration camp (Britain again) and was one of the most prolific colonial powers, with all that entails (oh yes, hatrick for Britain) and 2) Just use thanksgiving as an excuse to eat a whole hell of a lot and get drunk (you get drunk at thanksgiving right, whatever: chin chin?).

Reflecting on the good in your personal life, however, can be done pretty much all year round so I wouldn't bother doing it on any set day. I certainly didn't intend that by my comments.

Richard Nixon

26th November 2009, 17:51

By this logic all major holidays are imperialist:

New Years Day (corporatist with dropping the New Years Balls at Times Square)
Easter's (Celebrates Jesus's Resurrection which is an important day in Christianity and which leftists consider a dangerously imperialist religion)
Memorial Day (Celebrates Imperialist American soldiers)
Fourth of July (Self-explanatory)
Columbus Day (Evil Guy Who Caused Genocide of Indians)
Halloween (Corporatist)
Veterans Day (Celebrates Imperialism)
Thanksgiving Day (See Thread)
Christmas (Corporatist and also a Christian holiday)

gorillafuck

26th November 2009, 18:14

Of course I get together with family and friends and eat dinner with them.

the last donut of the night

26th November 2009, 18:23

Jazzratt

26th November 2009, 19:04

By this logic all major holidays are imperialist:

Bollocks it does.

New Years Day (corporatist with dropping the New Years Balls at Times Square)

Oh you can do better than this shite, really. You've got to start on a strong point. Talk about the evil christian calendar or something, not about some pointless little event that doesn't mean shit to most of the world. Christ.

Easter's (Celebrates Jesus's Resurrection which is an important day in Christianity and which leftists consider a dangerously imperialist religion)

There isn't such a thing as an "imperialist religion". There is the religion of the imperialists which is overwhelmingly christian but that doesn't mean christianity is ipso facto imperialist for fuck's sake. Easter is a silly celebration anyway, I only give a shit because of the tradition of eating pancakes on shrove tuesday.

Memorial Day (Celebrates Imperialist American soldiers)

Yes it does.

Fourth of July (Self-explanatory)

I'm not sure how the celebration of a nation gaining independence from a bloated colonial empire is self-evidently imperialist. It sounds like the opposite to me.

Columbus Day (Evil Guy Who Caused Genocide of Indians)

There's a bit more to it than that, but whatever.

Halloween (Corporatist)

Any event that people sell things for is "corporatist" by that definition. Stop being a stupid tosser. Then again if halloween was abolished that would mean that there were less plastic spiders put up as decoration so actually, yeah, fuck halloween.

Veterans Day (Celebrates Imperialism)

There is already debate about this kind of thing in the board proper. Personally I wouldn't celebrate it myself.

Christmas (Corporatist and also a Christian holiday)

See Easter & Halloween.

Also you guys get a whole fuck of a lot of holidays.

#FF0000

26th November 2009, 19:23

Halloween (Corporatist)

What's more revolutionary than a holiday where kids go door to door demanding candy with the threat of some nefarious prank?

Dr. Rosenpenis

26th November 2009, 19:43

the US's expanssionist policies were hardly "internal"
lol

Dr. Rosenpenis

26th November 2009, 19:45

Not to undermine your point too much but the bulk of what happened to the Native population in the Americas was nothing to do with American imperialism as when the main culprits of colonial genocide (Britian, Holland, France & Spain) were doing their thing America wasn't extant.

is Portugal off the hook?

Jazzratt

26th November 2009, 19:49

the US's expanssionist policies were hardly "internal"
lol

Nor were they anything to do with the treatment of people within America. That was internal policy.

is Portugal off the hook?

No. Don't be inane.

Richard Nixon

26th November 2009, 19:51

[QUOTE=Jazzratt;1608984

There isn't such a thing as an "imperialist religion". There is the religion of the imperialists which is overwhelmingly christian but that doesn't mean christianity is ipso facto imperialist for fuck's sake. Easter is a silly celebration anyway, I only give a shit because of the tradition of eating pancakes on shrove tuesday.

Most leftists (espeically Marxist-Leninists) aren't fans of religions are they?

I'm not sure how the celebration of a nation gaining independence from a bloated colonial empire is self-evidently imperialist. It sounds like the opposite to me.

Well according to the leftists it created an another imperialist superpower.

Also you guys get a whole fuck of a lot of holidays.

Just asking but what country are you from?

Finally this wasn't meant to be serious, it was meant to be satire of communist opposition to celebrating various holidays.

The Essence Of Flame Is The Essence Of Change

26th November 2009, 19:55

What's more revolutionary than a holiday where kids go door to door demanding candy with the threat of some nefarious prank?
Muahaha. ''Give us over your means of production or we will blast you with water!!'' :D

Dr. Rosenpenis

26th November 2009, 20:01

Nor were they anything to do with the treatment of people within America. That was internal policy.

Indians not "within America" don't count?

ComradeMan

26th November 2009, 20:38

I am afraid I have to beg to differ with some viewpoints expressed here as regards the destruction of Native American culture in the United Sates of America.

I also notice a stunning hypocrisy by the American state that celebrates its victory against the British, when really Anglo-Dutch settlers rose up against a German king with his Hanoverian troops etc, as an American victory and yet when it comes to the matter of the Native Americans suddenly retreat and say that pre-1776 it doesn't count anymore because "our forefathers" weren't technically US citizens.

Furthermore, to pretend that the fate of the Native American under the United States proper was anything less than a slow and savage process of genocide is absurd. It is also interesting to note that many Native American tribes actually sided with the British during the conflict and yet again sided with the Confederate forces during the Civil War.

I am not defending, nor am I going to defend, the treatment of Native Peoples by any colonial power in the Americas but the United States must accept its own unpalatable truths.

Before I start-- a quote from Mark Twain

"He is ignoble—base and treacherous, and hateful in every way. Not even imminent death can startle him into a spasm of virtue. The ruling trait of all savages is a greedy and consuming selfishness, and in our Noble Red Man it is found in its amplest development. His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts ... The scum of the earth! ”
Mark Twain, 1870, The Noble Red Man

A brief breakdown of post 1776 events might make mention of the following...

The British made peace with the Americans in the Treaty of Paris (1783), through which they ceded vast Native American territories to the United States without informing the Native Americans, leading immediately to the Northwest Indian War. The United States initially treated the Native Americans who had fought with the British as a conquered people who had lost their lands. Although many of the Iroquois tribes went to Canada with the Loyalists, others tried to stay in New York and western territories and tried to maintain their lands. Nonetheless, the state of New York made a separate treaty with Iroquois and put up for sale 5,000,000 acres (20,000 sq. km) of land that had previously been their territory. The state established a reservation near Syracuse for the Onondagas who had been allies of the colonists.

The Civilization Fund Act of 1819 promoted this civilization policy by providing funding to societies (mostly religious) who worked on Native American improvement- forced assimilation.

The Indian Removal Act of 1830 – Trail of Tears- wholescale theft of land that led to the destruction of the Cherokee nation (many of whom owned slaves too).

In 1847, Texas granted “speculators” pieces of land. This land was already inhabited
by Natives. When the new settlers had surveyors check out the land they found Native Americans who were none to happy about the situation

In 1871 Congress added a rider to the Indian Appropriations Act ending United States recognition of additional Native American tribes or independent nations, and prohibiting additional treaties.
“That hereafter no Indian nation or tribe within the territory of the United States shall be acknowledged or recognized as an independent nation, tribe, or power with whom the United States may contract by treaty: Provided, further, that nothing herein contained shall be construed to invalidate or impair the obligation of any treaty heretofore lawfully made and ratified with any such Indian nation or tribe.

In 1886, it was decided, by the United States federal government that Native American tribal groups would no longer be treated as 'indigenous national governments.' The decision was made, not by the conjoint efforts of the Native American tribes and Congress; but, by the "powers that be" the United States Legal System. This self-ordained power allowed Congress to pass a variety of other laws, directed towards, assimilating, Native Americans, so that they would become a part of "mainstream white America".

The Californian Experience.

Between 1852 and 1860, under American supervision, the indigenous population of California plunged from 85,000 to 35,000, a collapse of about 60 percent within eight years of the first gubernatorial demands for the Indians' destruction. By 1890 that number was halved again: now 80 percent of the natives who had been alive when California became a state had been wiped out by an official policy of genocide. Fewer than 18,000 California Indians were still living, and the number was continuing to drop. In the late 1840s and 1850s one observer of the California scene had watched his fellow American whites begin their furious assault "upon [the Indians], shooting them down like wolves, men, women, and children, wherever they could find them," and had warned that this "war of extermination against the aborigines, commenced in effect at the landing of Columbus, and continued to this day, [is] gradually and surely tending to the final and utter extinction of the race."

The "Indian Wars"

The Battle of Little Bighorn (1876) was one of the greatest Native American victories. Defeats included the Creek War of 1813-14, the Sioux Uprising of 1862, the Sand Creek Massacre (1864) and Wounded Knee in 1890. These conflicts were catalysts to the decline of dominant Native American culture. By 1872, the U.S. Army pursued a policy to exterminate all Native Americans unless or until they agreed to surrender and live on reservations "where they could be taught Christianity and agriculture."

Forced assimilation, dirty tricks, massacre and destruction- under a US government.

Dr Mindbender

27th November 2009, 02:13

isnt thanksgiving just a shit version of christmas anyway?

Richard Nixon

27th November 2009, 17:02

ComradeMan

28th November 2009, 19:11

Thanks Tricky Dicky...! :D

Hessian... sorry about that mistake- got mixed up because they were Hanoverian kings.

But let's face it, the whole damn thing was not a movement for liberty as such it was a way of not paying taxes to Britain but rather a select few in the colonies. The British resented this because of the expense of using the Royal Navy to patrol the Esstern Seaboard against the French and then the American colonists jumped into bed with France!!! I find it ironic now how loathed the French are in the mainstream USA considering that there very state owes its existance in part to France- not that I am big on states that is. :D

Plagueround

28th November 2009, 19:22

Before I start-- a quote from Mark Twain

"He is ignoble—base and treacherous, and hateful in every way. Not even imminent death can startle him into a spasm of virtue. The ruling trait of all savages is a greedy and consuming selfishness, and in our Noble Red Man it is found in its amplest development. His heart is a cesspool of falsehood, of treachery, and of low and devilish instincts ... The scum of the earth! ”
Mark Twain, 1870, The Noble Red Man

This text is widely thought to be satire, as it's not very consistent with Twain's other comments on indians (although quite consistent with Injun Joe). It's also thought that Twain's views on indians changed as he grew older and learned more about them.

The rest of your post is fantastic and a breath of fresh air on this forum.

RedStarOverChina

28th November 2009, 19:46

If it's an extra day off-work, then count me in.

ComradeMan

28th November 2009, 21:31

This text is widely thought to be satire, as it's not very consistent with Twain's other comments on indians (although quite consistent with Injun Joe). It's also thought that Twain's views on indians changed as he grew older and learned more about them.

The rest of your post is fantastic and a breath of fresh air on this forum.

Thanks for the compliment Comrade. I was quite startled myself at this comment, I don't remember this one from school.

If Twain was satirising- let's give him the benefit of the doubt- then it DOES mean that he was satirising prevalent attitudes at the time, giving us a window into the heads of people back then.

Bud Struggle

28th November 2009, 22:02

If Twain was satirising- let's give him the benefit of the doubt- then it DOES mean that he was satirising prevalent attitudes at the time, giving us a window into the heads of people back then.

I also believe Twain was satirizing looking at it as a statement of his actual beliefs isn't consistant with anything else ever read from or about him.

But your point about what the attitude was at the time he wrote it is also correct, it is also pretty correct about the attitude at OUR time. A while ago Plague posted a lists of "myths" and the explanations of the those myths about NAs that was pretty interesting--not so much that the myths could be easily rebutted--but that they HAD to be rebutted in the first place. There are a certain percent of people that believe what they believe because of their bigoted racial stereotyping of NAs, and they are who they are, but there is also a large group of people (at least here in America) that have all sorts of derogatory beliefs about NAs because they're been taught as much and really never took the time to actually understand what they've been presented with.

The more this kind of thing is rooted out and explained to people, I think the better we all are for it.

A.R.Amistad

30th November 2009, 05:59

Originally posted by Al8

The winter celebrations to not have direct links to genocide or imperialism. They have capitalist features when they take place in a capitalist system where people, to a high and pervasive degree, relate to each other by products sold and bought on a market as commodities. And also there is nothing wrong with consumerism, we all consume things whether they be commodified or not.

That's Christmas your describing, not Thanksgiving, comrade ;)

Jimmie Higgins

30th November 2009, 07:02

On Thanksgiving: I am not a fan but in practice it means about as much to most Americans in regards to colonization as Halloween has to do with harvest festivals from the middle ages. I think we should certainty point out the horrors of genocide and the way the holiday mythology is used to paper-over the real relationship between American settlers and native Americans, but railing against the holiday as some kind of celebration of genocide is just plain ultra-left. Most people in the US see it as a day for watching football, family obligations, and eating a lot of Turkey and nothing beyond that.

In fact this de-politiicization of the holiday is probably due to the Native American movement in the 70s as well as the anti-imperilaist/anti-colonialist sentiment that grew out of the Anti-War and Anti-racism movements of the 1960s... in old movies you tend to see people celebrating Thanksgiving with crass colonial costumes and racist native american costumes. Now it's just food and football.

Thanks Tricky Dicky...! :D
But let's face it, the whole damn thing was not a movement for liberty as such it was a way of not paying taxes to Britain but rather a select few in the colonies.

Twain was an early and prominent member of the anti-Imperialist League and was satirizing racism against native people in that quote. He had his faults, but he was part of the Radical Republican tradition, the left-wing of American capitalism, not an example of American racism.

Second, I think that's a crass over-simplification of a revolution which involved all classes and many different groups of people in the american colonies. Most national liberation struggles are a combination of lower-class anger at landloards and colonial troops and so on on the one hand and the interests of the local elites against the elietes of the imperialist (or in this case, the home-) country.

The rioters in New England had no interest in what the colonial elites motives were, they wanted colonial troops out. Sure the elites were interested in increasing their economic autonomy from England, but that's not what filled the mass-meetings with angry "rabble". Small farmers tarred and feathered British judges and supported the war and then tarred and feathered the new judges after independence so their fight was against the elites and landlords during the war, not against taxes.

Thom Paine's revolutionary and anti-monarchist, pamphlet "On Common Sense" did not become the most widely read political document up until that time because a few elites wanted more economic control.

The American Revolution was a real revolution including conflicts between classes in the colonies. After the war large southern landowners who had been loyalists had their plantations burned or confiscated. Among the revolutionary colonial elites there were debates and fights over slavery and suffrage with a left-wing wanting to embrace the new values of the emerging bourgeois while the right wing wanted a monarch and no suffrage at all.

After the war, there were further uprisings of small farmers and unemployed day-laborers in New England and this pressured the new American rulers to form a central government and create the populist parts of the bill of rights.

Revolutions are dynamic things that draw in all classes in society... the American revolution was certainly this and can't be reduced to the interests of one class alone. If it was just the elites that had an interest in independence from England, there would have been no way that there would have even been a revolution in the first place.

blank

8th December 2009, 07:42

i see it only as celebration of genocide. i also have other personal reasons why i not celebrate tg. and as well have nothing to be thankful for even if taking individualist viewpoint. fuck tg...
ughhh, just say you don't feel right about celebrating the genocide of indigenous people if you wish to get out of it

Chambered Word

12th December 2009, 06:06

New Years Day (corporatist with dropping the New Years Balls at Times Square)

What? It's just celebrating the new year.

Easter's (Celebrates Jesus's Resurrection which is an important day in Christianity and which leftists consider a dangerously imperialist religion)

Sure is strawman in there, but anyway, I'm pretty sure Easter was a pagan spring festival which was stolen by the Christians, and chocolate is frigging great.

Memorial Day (Celebrates Imperialist American soldiers)

It's just a day to remember people who died for their country.

Fourth of July (Self-explanatory)

I wouldn't expect a communist to be so enthusiastic about a nation which has been such a beacon of imperialism and capitalism and continues to be to this day.

Columbus Day (Evil Guy Who Caused Genocide of Indians)

Damn right. If I was American and expected to celebrate it then I certainly wouldn't.

Halloween (Corporatist)

What the hell's so corporatist about it? Considering it's a Celtic festival to remember the deceased.

Veterans Day (Celebrates Imperialism)

Already explained.

Christmas (Corporatist and also a Christian holiday)

It's actually a pagan holiday stolen by the Christians. The corporatist element that has creeped in pisses me off alot, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the season.

I don't think we have anything like Thanksgiving in Australia and I don't know enough about it to comment on that to be honest.

anticap

12th December 2009, 08:05

I don't have any plans for the day and I want to borrow an excuse as to why not.

For next year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Mourning_%28United_States_protest% 29

Richard Nixon

13th December 2009, 00:19

I don't think we have anything like Thanksgiving in Australia and I don't know enough about it to comment on that to be honest.

Isn't it just a fall celebration of the harvest in general?

Bud Struggle

13th December 2009, 00:35

What? It's just celebrating the new year.

Sure is strawman in there, but anyway, I'm pretty sure Easter was a pagan spring festival which was stolen by the Christians, and chocolate is frigging great.

It's just a day to remember people who died for their country.

I wouldn't expect a communist to be so enthusiastic about a nation which has been such a beacon of imperialism and capitalism and continues to be to this day.

Damn right. If I was American and expected to celebrate it then I certainly wouldn't.

What the hell's so corporatist about it? Considering it's a Celtic festival to remember the deceased.

Already explained.

It's actually a pagan holiday stolen by the Christians. The corporatist element that has creeped in pisses me off alot, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying the season.

I don't think we have anything like Thanksgiving in Australia and I don't know enough about it to comment on that to be honest.

Dude, chill a bit--:blink:

IcarusAngel

13th December 2009, 01:21

I remember punk rock anti-pundit Jello Biafra talking about a thanksgiving article by a conservative (whose only credentials to write an editorial were that she was a sports writer, according to biafra) entitled 'Whiners and Gripers.' The editorial said that everybody is too negative all the time and that we should make a list of the things we're thankful for, hers being things such as "Helen Hunt," "Padded bicycle seats," and other things from a conservative lifestyle.

For the capitalists here, I will give thanks to the things I enjoy that are 'capitalist' that the free-market provided me, according to them:

the internet (well, actually a government invention).

Stephen King novels (well, actually he was college educated)

A half decent education (Whoops, what was I thinking? That's purely government.)

Computers (Well, the government did most of the hard word in the early days)

Computer mice, as they allow me to play comp games (oops, these too were from our friend the government, where is my head at?)

Unix, even though I like to tease Unix heads. (well, AT&T was sponsored by the government)

Cell phones, as I'm started to develop for them (well, the telecommunications industry was also largely helped by the govt.)

Trains and Airplanes, as they take me around the country (Oops, again, big government).

My TV (surely this is free-market? Right? It seems to have been invented by some guy. But wait, it's foreign, so it got here from government managed trade agreements. And what are all those standards in the back of the book? A government/corporate merge).

Damnit, I tried, but I couldn't think of one thing that I'm thankful for during the holiday season that was provided by the "free-market."

I guess I should thank our corporatist / public research system for providing the nice things we workers in the Western world enjoy on occassion.

Drace

13th December 2009, 01:29

Oh but Icarus, but remember that capitalism has let the natural forces to take place and let businesses thrive by providing those things through the profit motive which ensures innovation and competition! :laugh:

IcarusAngel

13th December 2009, 01:35

Yep. Capitalists are VERY good at deregulating public inventions and public research, making enormous profits, and then running them into the ground, forcing the tax payeres (the working class) to spend trillions of dollars, by far more than the research money, to save our saviors the capitalists.

Not sure I'm exactly thankful for that though. :laugh:

Although, according to them, that is the most efficient use of resources possible. :laugh:

Robert

13th December 2009, 01:59

For the capitalists here, I will give thanks to the things I enjoy that are 'capitalist' that the free-market provided me, according to them:
I honestly know not a single person anywhere, except for you guys, who think the purpose of Thanksgiving is to express gratitude to the free market. :lol:I guess it does benefit the stockholders of Butterball (http://www.butterball.com/) and Ocean Spray (http://www.oceanspray.com/) disproportionately, but hell, I still like Thanksgiving.

If we keep eliminating all these capito-fascistic-religious holidays, we'll have nothing left to celebrate except for ...
Labor day: It's the most, wonderful time, of the year!http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/holiday/santahat.gif

Plagueround

13th December 2009, 02:15

^ Robert, check this guy (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20091125/cm_csm/yghate) out. I thought it was a joke at first. :laugh:

anticap

13th December 2009, 02:47

If we keep eliminating all these capito-fascistic-religious holidays, we'll have nothing left to celebrate except for ...
Labor day: It's the most, wonderful time, of the year!http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/holiday/santahat.gif

There are plenty of alternative remembrance days (http://store.iww.org/product_info.php?products_id=357). Which ones we choose will be based on our priorities and worldviews. Of course they needn't all be labor-related, and shouldn't all be, IMO -- but neither should we continue remembering the traditional ones just for the sake of tradition.

I personally find that the only redeeming quality of Thanksgiving is the food, which I love. OK, so I say yes if I'm invited to dinner; but I don't give thanks -- instead, when it's my turn to say a few words, I introduce to my hosts, as politely as possible, the Native American critique of Thanksgiving, which they may never have heard before.

As for Christmas, I find it wholly irredeemable, and in fact literally dreadful. Every year I count the days in anticipation of the end of the stifling holiday atmosphere. The only upshot is that I get to revel in the role of Grinch. I do enjoy watching the smiles of well-wishers turn to scowls when I inform them that I'm neither a Christian nor a shallow consumerist drone, and that Christmas is therefore of no value to me. My naive hope is that they realize that they're not really practicing Christians either (almost nobody is, really), nor do they want to think of themselves as zombies with credit cards, so perhaps they'll stop the madness next year.

IcarusAngel

13th December 2009, 02:51

bzqSzbrtTao

Chambered Word

13th December 2009, 11:01

Dude, chill a bit--:blink:

Can't see what was wrong with my post. Especially seeing as the one I replied to was a bit silly.

Chambered Word

13th December 2009, 11:05

^ Robert, check this guy (http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20091125/cm_csm/yghate) out. I thought it was a joke at first. :laugh:

Read most of it. I really wish that WAS a joke. :mad:

"We should thank...financiers whose capital has helped build entire industries."

Lol'd.

cska

14th December 2009, 02:40

One Indian (South Asian) was asked by a bigot if Indians celebrate thanksgiving. The Indian said yes. We thank God Columbus didn't reach India.